new harman accentra insert-cold house?

[johnnyf]

Hello folks,

I found this website while searching for problems with Harman accentra pellet stoves. I had this stove installed in early December. Right from the start this stove was consuming 3 bags of pellets (Marth brand from Lowes) a day. The problem was that this stove was not throwing out much heat. The dealer came out with a meter and testing the "drafting" of the stove. He said beforehand that it should read about "30". It was off the meter which stopped at "60". He was able to adjust a setting inside with a small screwdriver bringing it back to the high "40's". He researched the problem and told me that he ordered a "fresh air reduction accessory". This was installed at the rear of the stove last week.

The dealer never came back with the meter to test the drafting again. The main heating thermostat is about 14' away from the stove and the highest temperature it reads is 74. the rest of the house on the 1st floor doesn't get warm. The upstairs is cold. Now this is an old tudor style house built in the 1930's with heavy plaster walls and replacement windows (which are energy efficient). There is no insulation in the exterior walls which I am planning on having done this spring (blown in foam). But even at that shouldn't this stove warm the entire house? My friend's have pellet stoves and their homes are warm. I'm wondering what to do. Right now I'm buring 2 bags of pellets a day to heat the living room. I've put a call into the dealer asking him to come back again and check the drafting with a meter. what else can be wrong here? and advice?

Thanks for any help.

 

[imacman]

Yes, there could be something wrong with your stove....do you mean that the air coming out from the front of the stove isn't warm at all, or do you just mean the house just isn't getting warm (besides the living room)?

I tend to think your problem is in what you mentioned in your post:

"this is an old tudor style house built in the 1930’s with heavy plaster walls.......... There is no insulation in the exterior walls"

The walls of a house like that is similar to what people have when they try to use a pellet stove in an unfinished basement.....the mass of cold concrete just sucks all the heat up. That may be what your "heavy plaster walls" and "no insulation in the exterior walls" are doing too.

Plus, if that old tudor is anything like a few I've been in, there isn't a lot of open space to allow air to circulate.

 

[lmjr]

How many BTU/Hr was the previous heating systems out-put?

How many BTU/Hr out-put is the Insert?

What ever the difference is what you lack out of the Insert. (not big enough)
Plus, not using the duct work (if forced air) to distribute the heat throughout the house.

You really need a Pellet Boiler or Furnace...not a stove/insert!

 

[Trickyrick]

OK I have the exact same insert. Lets start from the beginning:

What was you existing heat system (electric, gas, oil, etc)

What was you previous usage (gallons, KWw, Therms etc) per month. This will tell us how many BTUs you were using in to heat your home for say Jan of last year and we can compare this to this years BTUs.

I also suspect the Marth pellets. I tried 2 bags and got very little heat in my accentra. Not saying they are bad pellets but I found pellets that worked better for me for less.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Burning 3 bags of pellets a day, that stove should be throwing out some serious heat.

My Quad will consume a bag a day if I let it do the duty all by itself during COLD weather.

I can't imagine scarfing up 3 bags a day and the house being that cold.

What is the temperature of the air coming out of the vent on the stove ???


Snowy

 

[johnnyf]

OK I have the exact same insert. Lets start from the beginning:

What was you existing heat system (electric, gas, oil, etc)

What was you previous usage (gallons, KWw, Therms etc) per month. This will tell us how many BTUs you were using in to heat your home for say Jan of last year and we can compare this to this years BTUs.

I also suspect the Marth pellets. I tried 2 bags and got very little heat in my accentra. Not saying they are bad pellets but I found pellets that worked better for me for less.

I'l try to answer some of the other questions here:

1. The house has an open layout. From the living room there is an open archway into the dining room. Ditto into the kitchen from the living room. The stairs are @15' away from the insert and it's open to the upstairs hallway.
2. I got the most powerful accentra insert they made. I'm looking for the paperwork but I believe the output is supposed to be about 4000
3. I still have the gas heat boiler which supplies steam radiators throughout the house. I've got to check the bills for usage on gas.
4. what brand of pellets have you folks been using for maximum heat output?
5. How can I measure the heat output from the stove. Would a regular themometer work or do I need something special?


Thanks for your help.

John

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

John,

Stove ratings are input firing rates not heat output.

The same is true of the other heating systems.

They all will differ in their efficiency rates thus requiring that to be taken into consideration.

I suspect that in your case given your supposed high draft that a lot of the heat produced is going up the flue.

The other thing that can really get into the act is the volume of air in the house and the volume of air the stove can move coupled with the number of air exchanges due to infiltration factors.

 

[lmjr]

OK I have the exact same insert. Lets start from the beginning:

What was you existing heat system (electric, gas, oil, etc)

What was you previous usage (gallons, KWw, Therms etc) per month. This will tell us how many BTUs you were using in to heat your home for say Jan of last year and we can compare this to this years BTUs.

I also suspect the Marth pellets. I tried 2 bags and got very little heat in my accentra. Not saying they are bad pellets but I found pellets that worked better for me for less.

I'l try to answer some of the other questions here:

1. The house has an open layout. From the living room there is an open archway into the dining room. Ditto into the kitchen from the living room. The stairs are @15' away from the insert and it's open to the upstairs hallway.
2. I got the most powerful accentra insert they made. I'm looking for the paperwork but I believe the output is supposed to be about 4000
3. I still have the gas heat boiler which supplies steam radiators throughout the house. I've got to check the bills for usage on gas.
4. what brand of pellets have you folks been using for maximum heat output?
5. How can I measure the heat output from the stove. Would a regular themometer work or do I need something special?




Thanks for your help.

John

Just ball-parking here...

40,000 BTU/Hr. = Insert

175,000 BTU/Hr. = Boiler

not saying your boiler was running WFO

And I may be a little "Light" on actual boiler size guess.

Point is...BIG Difference in numbers.

BTW...that small screw driver trick was to turn down to minimum the combustion fan speed...since that didn't reduce enough... the plate was added to further reduce the excessive draft.

He may also turned up to Max. the Convection fan.

 

[Lousyweather]

question: is this insert hooked to a 4" liner, or any liner at all? A big old chimney, especially on the outside of the house *might* overdraft the unit....and turning down the combustion fan a few volts wont make that much of a difference.....

 

[Trickyrick]

OK I have the exact same insert. Lets start from the beginning:

What was you existing heat system (electric, gas, oil, etc)

What was you previous usage (gallons, KWw, Therms etc) per month. This will tell us how many BTUs you were using in to heat your home for say Jan of last year and we can compare this to this years BTUs.

I also suspect the Marth pellets. I tried 2 bags and got very little heat in my accentra. Not saying they are bad pellets but I found pellets that worked better for me for less.

I'l try to answer some of the other questions here:

1. The house has an open layout. From the living room there is an open archway into the dining room. Ditto into the kitchen from the living room. The stairs are @15' away from the insert and it's open to the upstairs hallway.
2. I got the most powerful accentra insert they made. I'm looking for the paperwork but I believe the output is supposed to be about 4000
3. I still have the gas heat boiler which supplies steam radiators throughout the house. I've got to check the bills for usage on gas.
4. what brand of pellets have you folks been using for maximum heat output?
5. How can I measure the heat output from the stove. Would a regular themometer work or do I need something special?


Thanks for your help.

John

What you are going to find is that it will take you more BTUs from a pellet stove to get the entire space up to temp than if you have a distribution system (your boiler and steam distribution).

Yes you insert can burn about 40,000 BTUs per hour (8,000 BTUs per pound of pellets at 5 pounds per hour). In perfect conditions with an absolutley clean exchanger and perfect air movement and draft you can get near 80% efficiency. In reality my system is delivering about 57% efficiency but the house is warmer by an average 5 degrees which skews my efficiency. I estimate that 65% of the energy available from the pellets I burn make it into my home.

If we assume you are using an OAK and you are getting the same efficiency I've got then you stove will put into your home a maximum say 26,000 BTUs per hour.

You actual bill (gas consumption) will tell us what you have needed in the past for BTUs to heat the home. If the average BTUs needed before the pellet stove was less than 26,000 then there is something wrong with the pellet stove. If it was about equal then ther may be some things you can do but realistically the stove will be a suplliment source. If the amount is greater than 26,000/hour then the stove will save you energy but until you insulate it will not give you what desire.

1 cu foot of natural gas produces 1028 BTUs at best your home system is 90% efficient so for every cubic foot your house gets 900 BTUs

The other way of measurement is in Therms (usually how it is sold). 1 therm = 100,000 BTUs again at 90% efficient you are looking at 90,000 BTUs per therm you purchased.

 

[Trickyrick]

I also hope you are using an OAK. With your heated space it will not take long to "turn over" the air in your house, using it for combustion and driving it up the flue.

 

[humpin iron]

Tudor house-no insulation...............................................let's try another comparison, I bought the biggest, baddest pick up ford-chevy-gmc made and it won't pull my 30 car train, WHAT THE.... gee whiz my friends have the same truck and it pulls their campers.
Foam the house then tell us what happens

 

[DAKSY]

The Accentra insert is 42K BTU Input.
At 75% efficiency, you can get AT BEST 31.5K BTU.
Without insulation, you're gonna need AT LEAST
50 BTU /Sq.Ft.
So 31,500/50 = 630 Sq.Ft. Not a LOT of area.
Insulate the place & keep your heat $$$ inside where they belong.
YMMV

 

[THE ROOSTER]

The Accentra insert is 42K BTU Input.
At 75% efficiency, you can get AT BEST 31.5K BTU.
Without insulation, you're gonna need AT LEAST
50 BTU /Sq.Ft.
So 31,500/50 = 630 Sq.Ft. Not a LOT of area.
Insulate the place & keep your heat $$$ inside where they belong.
YMMV

I'll second, third, & fourth that... Now I don't have your style home, but I do have the same insert and the most I have ever burned is a 1.5 bags a day and that was when the electric was out... The stove kept the house anywhere from 80* ( where the insert is) to 66* upstairs and the outside temps where in the single digits and a 5-10 mph wind, and again; no other form of heat!!

 

[Pellet-King]

Heating season is over there in LI soon, dont get too worked up over it, biggest problem is your pellets, get some Okies's or Hamer's you'll feel the diffrence immediatly.

 

[krooser]

While Marth pellets are pretty dirty they do have produced decent heat in my stove... I don't think any pellet will make enough difference in your comfort without some insulation...IMHO.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

No Pellet-King the biggest problem is the stove wasn't sized to handle the job.

It is very common problem that pops up on here all the time.

All of the wishing in the world will never make X BTUs an hour handle a house with a heat loss of more than that at the temperature difference required.

The laws of thermodynamics haven't been overturned by anyone yet.