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New Jotul 400 - Dirty Door Glass

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Gabby12, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Wilm. DE
    Haven't even had stove a week yet so newbi here but am learning a lot through evenyones help.

    Next question:
    My wood has been split for 1 year (some longer) stacked and under a raised tarp to allow air to get to wood.
    I would say that the tarp is still in good shape and not letting water through - of course with the tarp being a year old there maybe a little but none that I have seen.
    The wood I have burned so far is cherry, oak and maple.
    I usually start with kinlin of pine or oak from pallets - very dry - that light very well.

    I did my break-in fires in the first day but have burned everyday just to learn and play.
    Everyday within a few minutes the door glass starts getting dirty. After a second fire the glass is usually so dirty that i can't see the flames.
    Admitidly, my first few fires were not that hot (under 400) so to break in slowly.
    But now I feel I can get up temp to 500+ without any stove issues regarding heat and have done so.

    I have read a few links on how to clean the glass (newspaper,water,ash - even added a little ammonia to the balled up newspaper to help cut the krud) and although it has cleaned the glass - this is kind of a pain. Might be the nature of the beast but so far I am not happy with how quickly the glass gets dirty.

    Being new I am hoping I can get some advice to keeping this condition from happening so quickly.
    After all one of the main reasons for wanting the stove is to sit and relaz and watch the lazy flames once up to temp and air knocked down.
    But after one to two days top burning I can't see the flames.

    Any advice?

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  2. topoftheriver

    topoftheriver Member

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    Is the stove new? If it is, then open the door and look up to the back of the stove. The baffle is on top of the tubes. Make sure it is all the way back abutting the back of the stove so no flames go up the smoke outlet into the stove pipe. Sometimes my stove gets soot on the window but a good hot fire burns it off. It takes a while. I use vinegar to clean the window every now and then. Good luck.
  3. Butcher

    Butcher Minister of Fire

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    N. central Ia.
    First of all, dont use any ammonia based cleaner on yer glass. Jotul says no no as far as I can see. I get dirty glass if my kindlin is kinda off but it usually cleans up after a good hot one. Not sure about your stove but mine dont really have a fancy air wash system to keep the glass clean. I got it fer heat, not sumpthin to look at. I'm thinkin you are not runnin it right but then when I got mine I wasnt either, just took some time to get used to it. If yer glass is so dirty you cant see flames then you are havin some burn problems that need addressed. JMHO
  4. lopiliberty

    lopiliberty Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Mineral County, WV
    I don't have a jotul but they are nice looking stoves. They were one on my choices when I was stove shopping. Anyway I'm guessing the reason for the black glass is the wood. Not sure of proper seasoning time on cherry and maple because I burn oak and locust, but oak takes 2 to 3 years to dry. Try running the stove hotter for a longer period of time before turning the air down just be careful to over fire in the process
  5. ailanthus

    ailanthus Feeling the Heat

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    Tend to agree that the wood may be suspect.
    corey21 and Backwoods Savage like this.
  6. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Jotul uses air wash technology in all the new clean burn stoves, and it works great!
  7. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    It sounds like you are able to get the stove up to temp OK, the wood might not be the issue here. At what point do you turn the air control down? If it's done too soon, on a fresh fire it will dirty the glass quickly. Are you sure you are using the air control correctly? High is all the way to the right, low is to the left. Also, leave the door cracked for a little bit after you start the fire, make sure it is getting plenty of air.

    Also, what type of chimney is it running on?
  8. topoftheriver

    topoftheriver Member

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    The wood could be suspect but if you get the stove to temperature, they are made to self clean the glass.
  9. Kevin Dolan

    Kevin Dolan Burning Hunk

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    SW Ontario
    How do you get your fire going up to what temp before you begin to turn the primary air control down. Wood that is more than 20% moisture tends to dirty the glass. Do you have smouldering fires rather than lazy flames when you have the stove settled down. What do you do for an overnight burn?
    I find the air wash does keep the glass clean and if it does get dirty a good hot fire and the secondaries going well cleans it up nicely. Failing that I get a hot wet cloth when the stove is coolish and a quick wipe has it shiny. One of the reasons I bought the castine was to see the fire so the clean glass is important to me. Try burning hotter and test the moisture of your wood and as another poster said, you will get the hang of your stove over time.
  10. rijim

    rijim Member

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    How do your secondaries look? Once up to 500deg stovetop you should be able to get good strong secondary burns. During offgassing, you should see the majority of the burn at the upper tubes with a flame just dancing across the wood, you will also notice the flame color move from all orange to more blue. I usually run the air control @1/4 open if very cold and windy I need to close down completely with stovetop temps 500-600.
  11. topoftheriver

    topoftheriver Member

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    Aside from the air control in front on the oslo 500 which one model up from the castine, I have a chimney pipe damper as well. When I installed the stove years back, I put it in as a safety precaution. In high winds I sometimes adjust the inline pipe damper to cut back on too much draft. Balancing between the air control and the damper helps regulate my stove to some uniformity. When it comes to the secondaries I always thought the orange flames were hotter than the blue ones. However, when the secondaries are cooking good, I generally cut back on air supply to avoid overburning and wasting fuel.
  12. DianeB

    DianeB Feeling the Heat

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    hotter fires will keep the glass clean. We learned not to cut down the air down for awhile. on very cold days we get it up to at least 500 before we start cutting back the air. With wood above 20% it is really hard to get up to 500 - takes a long time. We are burning drier wood now and it gets to 500 very easily. You may want to buy some of the bio bricks to use with your wood if it is above 20% on a fresh split check.
  13. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

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    Wilm. DE
    Running between family obilgations today but was able to look at baffle and yes it appears that it is up and back as it should be.
    I cleaned glass with just newspaper and water - it was virtually blacked over completly but cleaned up fine.
    I did notice that the glass soot build up is more dense around the handle for the door and the lower hinge if this info helps.

    As far as getting the stove up to temp,. with my wood I have no problem getting it up to the 500-600 range and have to control this by either completly closing the air or at most keeping it open 1/4 or less.

    Yesterday while putting up siding it was the first day I could really use the stove all day (only got it installed on Tue.) and this is how I did it.

    Used split pine/oak pallet wood along with some type of 1-2" square starting product designed to lite edges and it will buring for several minutes.
    Another words kinlin gets up and going fairly quickly - I would say all wood is on fire in 2-3 minutes and I might close air a little as to not get heat going to quickly on cast - but not too quickly to make fire smolder by any means.

    After this wood is well lit I add some bigger split hard wood from the wood pile. Maybe 3 pieces.
    If needed I will probably open air back to full to get new splits going.

    After these are going and if I have room I will put one big piece in and let it get caught.
    By now my temp gauge will probably be up around 300+ range.
    I'll let big piece get on fire then shut down air to 1/4 open or closed depending on stove temp.

    I was working outside of room all day so couldn't keep a close watch on stove temp but every time I looked at gauge it was 400 to 500 most of the day.
    I think I had to add one more big piece to make it to sunset - (burned a total of 10 hours on kinlin, 3-4 small spilts and two large pieces).

    By the end of the day I could not see any flames through glass - I did not start with a clean glass mind you - but had stove temp up over 400+ most of the day.
    Yes not 700 which might have burned off glass but with not knowing the stove that well yet and not being in room all day I couldn't take the chance of giving more air as i am sure it would have taken off and been too hot in short order.
  14. Gabby12

    Gabby12 New Member

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    I will also mention that I see the secondaries kick in and burn blue flame around the 400 mark.
    The pipe that was used is a doubel wall black pipe inside and a double wall stainless outside.
    I don't know the exact names of these pipe but have my sales quote.
    Looks like the inside pipe might be 6" dble wall 5 1/2" telescoping Section 3 1/2' to 5 1/2'.
    6" X 48" HT Chimney w/ locking band
    I have a 6" stovepiep adaptor
    A 6" HT cathedral ceiling support
    a 6" HT Deluxe Rain Cap

    Wife is calling - got to go to next event - I'll check back later.
  15. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Gabby, if I were you I would not attempt to burn that oak this year. The cherry and maple should be fine though. Many have given you suggestions on burning so I won't comment further on that. However, I'd like to comment on the cleaning of the glass. You don't want the newspaper wet through; only damp. We don't wad it up much either but leave it loose. Just dampen it and then just barely touch the ashes with the damp newspaper. You need very little. That should do well for cleaning.

    It is also possible that you maybe should have burned a little smaller fire for the break-in and many times it pays to do 2 break-in fires. This will cure all the cement and remove any moisture from the stove.

    When we bought our last stove, our glass got black on the burn-in fires. After that, we've never had any black on the glass; just some white haze which cleans off quickly but we don't have to clean it very often.
  16. gandrimp

    gandrimp Member

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    Your wood is probably the problem. My castine does not like wood from outside. It likes wood that has been inside for a week, due to moisture under the bark and whatnot. If your wood is covered that shouldnt be a problem, but a year on oak isnt enough. I also want to say that your door gasket or glass gasket could be a problem, my glass gasket is needing changed.
    I never have been able to shut my control all the way, it will put the fire out and the glass will be BLACK.
    Give your thermometer to your wife and let that stove work, it will not heat up so fast on it own air to hurt the cast iron. Dont open the ash door, that can hurt the cast iron and it does blacken the glass.
    My stove is 3 years old and I just got a thermometer, stove top will get 500 - 600 chimney will run 300 - 400 with 3 year oak.
  17. gandrimp

    gandrimp Member

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    Another thing to check, pull the 2 screws that hold the euro/us air oulet just inside the door. Make sure the control is in position. Then when reinstalling, throw the us outlet away and install the euro outlet, I have the us on now, but when the stove cools I am switching back to the euro, us epa stinks.
  18. DianeB

    DianeB Feeling the Heat

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    what do you mean by the euro vs us outlet, does the stove have two of something that is clearly identified as euro and us and that you can disconnect the us and add the euro???
  19. southbalto

    southbalto Feeling the Heat

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    The "US" epa approved outlet plate has two pea size air openings on either end; the euro plate has one large (bigger) opening in the middle. I believe the castine ships with both plates new.
  20. rijim

    rijim Member

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    One possibility is you may be shutting down too quick. Try loading the stove and lighting, at 400deg go to 3/4 air at 450 goto 1/2 and at 500 got to 1/4 if windy and temp climbs to 650 shut it down completely. Usually less than dry wood is the cause of black glass but with the temps your getting to it seem hard to believe.
  21. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    The Castine actually requires 3 break-in fires. 200/300/400, then you can let er rip.
  22. gandrimp

    gandrimp Member

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    southbalto is correct.
  23. DianeB

    DianeB Feeling the Heat

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    Would the dealer have kept the euro and only delivered the stove with the US?
  24. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    That's correct, because it isn't needed. The U.S. one comes installed from the factory.
  25. gandrimp

    gandrimp Member

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    Possible I suppose. When you open the door, as you look into the firebox, at the bottom of the door lip on the inside, theres a piece of cast iron that is humped up, its about dead center just inside the firebox. Wipe the ash off real well and it should be cast with euro or us. The one that says us has 2 small hole, one on each side aimed at the fire. The euro has a wider hole right in the center that works alot better.
    If the dealer kept it, defently get it. But first check to see, you may have the euro already installed.

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