New Lopi Leyden questions

[Troutchaser]

My first post so I'm practicing a bit.

Have owned a lopi leyden for a little over one week and thanks to this forum I have made some headway in learning the stove. Travis has a great stove there, but should be embarrassed on their "how to operate" section of the manual. Or at the least they should list hearth.com as a place to learn operation. I've searched the leyden and found great info. Thanks!

I've never burned wood before last week.
I'm getting her hot. IR gun says 625 on loading lid and 500 over the door. 650 at back of stove. Good coal bed, I think. Temps vary widely on this stovetop. When I close up for a secondary burn, everything looks great inside the stove: syrupy blue flames at the top of the box and popping out of the splits. But outside I'm still getting smell and what I guess is smoke. Still not hot enough? Should there ever be smell? I'm getting six hour burns with a workable coal bed and no sooted glass except some on the sides (first night, yes, I sooted up the glass bad). Learning here ...

Thanks for everything fellow burners.

 

[begreen]

Welcome and congratulations on the new stove. The smoke smell may be coming from the flue connecting pipe and not the stove. Can you describe it in detail, maybe post a picture or two of the pipe for a looksee?

 

[Troutchaser]

I'm thrilled to be a part of this forum. Thank you.

The outside pipe is double wall insulated. I only have about seven feet of pipe coming out of the roof. Because of how it is situated, I can access the rain cap no problem. Walkout balcony to roof provides great access. I was just looking, and at best the pipe is only a foot higher than the dormer. I don't think this is good. Draft seems good though. The cap has a lot of little black crusties (creosote?) under it.

It is possible the smell is coming from the wood. I have a few mystery pieces mixed in with some barn kept oak, cherry, and maple. I fear it might be lombardy poplar because this guy had those trees all over his place. It weighs nothing. I'll leave those pieces out and see about the smell.

I'm sleeping on the floor with a fire extinguisher. At least when I can sleep. The other night I walked across the snow covered roof to check the pipe. My wife wants me committed.

I'll try and post some pics.

 

[Troutchaser]

Here are pics of install. Problems that you can see?

 

[Troutchaser]

Oh man, no more than I put up that post, the house filled with smoke. Leyden was honking on at about 700deg. stovetop and I was about ready to try and nuke it. What happened here?

 

[devinsdad]

close the window? Looks like you need to add some height to your chimney also. 10-2 rule

 

[Troutchaser]

Afraid of that on the chimney height. Why didn't installer know that?

Windows and doors open now. Wife wants to shoot me for this.

 

[devinsdad]

angle of the pic could be deceiving :zip:

 

[Troutchaser]

No, I went up there today and it's no more than a foot over the dormer. Probably more like 8-10 inches.

On a brighter note, the stove is roaring in secondary right now. But why the smoke in house when she was ripping at 700?

 

[devinsdad]

If that is the first time it got that hot I would have to say your stove and pipe paint is now cured ;-)

 

[Troutchaser]

I was thinking the same thing. But would curing paint put out the smoke?
Or was it a pressure issue in which case I needed a window cracked? I mean, smoke just sort of appeared in the room. The stove didn't look to be leaking smoke. Nor did the pipe.
Definitely as hot as I've gotten it yet.

 

[devinsdad]

I broke in two stoves this season. the first time there was a considerable smoky haze in the room and a little smell. mostly from the pipe. My dealer had helped me out and burned the stove outdoors prior to delivery. The second stove I could see the wisps of smoke rising off the stove top and swirling around the pipe from the convection. It could have been a pressure issue but smoke should've been to a minimum at 700 °F . Did you have any other appliances running? exhaust fan? dryer? etc...

 

[Troutchaser]

Nope. Nothing that should have been pulling back on the stove. I mean, she was honking on and charging up the flue. I might post in the winter break in thread and see if they agree it could have been pipe paint curing. That's definitely as hot as she's been yet (yep, it's a she. I checked.)

Thanks for the help.

 

[Todd]

Sounds like paint curing. Every time you go up in temps you may get that til the paint is fully cured. If it's wood smoke coming from the stove you can tell the difference in smell from the paint cure smoke. Give it a few more hot burns before you change anything.

 

[Troutchaser]

Got the back of Leyden stovetop to 650, good coal bed, shut bypass, decreased air, and heard some serious whooshing in combustion chamber. But, outside there is smoke (steam?) and an awful smell. Almost like burning rubber. Could the pipe be curing on the inside and putting that smell out into the air? Install is only 1 1/2 weeks old.

 

[begreen]

Is the smell inside? If yes, was RTV or silicone cement used on any flue joint or at the stove collar? Or is the smell strictly from the outside smoke? If only outside, how dry is the wood on the inside of the splits? What species of wood?

PS: Merged redundant threads

 

[Troutchaser]

That smell is outside. Last night the curing smell was inside. I don't know. Just a funky smell when I walk out in the driveway. Not a good fire burning smell. My guess is that the wood is at least seasoned enough for operation, but I can't verify that. Oak, cherry, maple, and the mystery stuff. That could be it.
Shortly after posting those pics, the outside pipe went clear and I've been burning clean since then. Bypass and air completely closed up. No smell in or out. Stovetop still 375 deg.
Thanks.

 

[schortie]

My VC Defiant has a similar down draft design as your Leyden. I too have noticed an acrid, sour smell of smoke from time to time. As last year was my first year burning, I attributed this smell to my wood. Although, the smoke I smell directly from the stove when opening the door does not smell like the emissions from the chimney. It could have something to do with the burn chamber and how the secondary gasses are burned. I have little evidence to support this, but it's a possibility.

On another note, did you paint your chimney black, or did you find black pipe somewhere? If you painted it, it looks like you did a great job. I'm thinking about painting ours and I'm worried about how it will turn out.

On yet another note, where do you chase them trout?

 

[begreen]

That smell is outside. Last night the curing smell was inside. I don't know. Just a funky smell when I walk out in the driveway. Not a good fire burning smell. My guess is that the wood is at least seasoned enough for operation, but I can't verify that. Oak, cherry, maple, and the mystery stuff. That could be it.
Shortly after posting those pics, the outside pipe went clear and I've been burning clean since then. Bypass and air completely closed up. No smell in or out. Stovetop still 375 deg.
Thanks.

There is definitely a learning curve to burning in any new stove. Downdraft stoves even more so. It sounds like you are getting the hang of it and will get better with experience and good dry wood. Here's an article and a couple threads on burning in this style stove. There are some good tips here:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Downdraft_Stove_Operation/

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/10996/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/14536/

 

[Pagey]

I can smell a distinct, unpleasant smell outside when I burn pine. Now, the pine is seasoned to around 18-20% MC, and I can have zero visible smoke from the flue and still smell it. Too bad it doesn't smell as good as it does when you split it. I don't think that smell is necessarily a good indicator of how you are burning. Now, if the smell is accompanied by obvious, visible smoke then I would say either the wood is not ideal or something is amiss with the burning technique, perhaps. Even as clean as today's stoves burn, they cannot totally eliminate the smell.

 

[Troutchaser]

Well, that's good to hear about the smoke smell. I've engaged the stove again, got it hot, hear a whistling rumble from the back, but outside it stinks, stinks, stinks. Still getting a slight, vapor trail, but it's 15 deg. right now. Our pipe rolls emissions right down on us. I think I might need to add another 3 foot to get it up over the dormer. Is the 2-10 rule code, or is it just a recommendation?

I painted the pipe a few days before installation. Installer said nobody ever did that, but it wasn't a bad idea. I purchased galvanized pipe for that purpose. Black, grill paint did a great job. Got to clean the oily residue off the pipe first. We'll see how it looks in a year.

I chase trout anywhere they swim. Smoky Mountains and Cumberland River the most.

Thanks for the help folks. I can't get enough of the tips. Storing next year's wood right now.

 

[Pagey]

When it's really cold, it's not uncommon to see steam coming from the flue. If it's very thin, wispy, white, and disappears within a few feet of the pipe it is more than likely steam. Smoke will be darker/bluer and will travel further and linger longer. It could be that your flue isn't clearing the two roof lines enough and the smell is being pulled down by a negative pressure situation.

 

[Troutchaser]

I've looked at that flue plenty of times and have seen smoke/steam actually following the roofline down. Still, seems like a good draft inside the stove. I think I'll call tomorrow and have them bring me another 3foot section of double wall exterior.
Thanks.
I did burn about 8 hours last night. Stovetop about 200deg. this a.m. with decent coals.
If the glass is staying clean, does that mean I'm not polluting the neighborhood? Probly not that easy.

 

[Pagey]

Clean glass is always a good indicator, but I have a clean glass when I can still smell wood burning outside. Again, even though today's stove have drastically reduced emissions I do not think one can rely on them to totally eliminate the smell, especially with some species of wood. It will be interesting to see what another 3' of pipe does for you.

 

[webby3650]

Well, that's good to hear about the smoke smell. I've engaged the stove again, got it hot, hear a whistling rumble from the back, but outside it stinks, stinks, stinks. Still getting a slight, vapor trail, but it's 15 deg. right now. Our pipe rolls emissions right down on us. I think I might need to add another 3 foot to get it up over the dormer. Is the 2-10 rule code, or is it just a recommendation?

I painted the pipe a few days before installation. Installer said nobody ever did that, but it wasn't a bad idea. I purchased galvanized pipe for that purpose. Black, grill paint did a great job. Got to clean the oily residue off the pipe first. We'll see how it looks in a year.

I chase trout anywhere they swim. Smoky Mountains and Cumberland River the most.

Thanks for the help folks. I can't get enough of the tips. Storing next year's wood right now.

The 2-10 rule is a rule, or a code. It needs to terminate 2 feet higher than anything within 10 feet, it appears that you don't have this. I would normally suggest putting a test piece up there but you are gonna need more chimney. Why did you not want SS chimney pipe? Did the installer offer Black SS chimney pipe to you?