New Mansfield!

[terri]

I'm getting a Mansfield later this week and need to know pretty much everything about soapstone heating, and I have lots of questions.

Can I permanently remove the ash pan and cover the hole in the stove floor with a piece of soapstone, or a firebrick, and add door gasket if necessary to make a good seal, and then just shovel out the ashes as needed?

What is a "gas explosion"? My installer thinks I will have gas explosions if I remove the ash pan. The owners' manual, under trouble-shooting, recommends emptying the ash pan more frequently to stop gas explosions. Do I need to simply practice good housekeeping, or is this a serious issue? I never heard of such a thing before and I've heated with wood stoves for 30 years.

My house sits on concrete block and stone piers. The floors are old wood, the joists are 111 years old. Do I need to shore up the floor to support this gorgeous beast?

Thanks!!
Terri

 

[begreen]

Hi Terri, welcome. Gas explosions are also call puffbacks. They happen when unburnt wood gas suddenly ignites. There are a number of causes, the most frequent being a fire started up with less than ideal wood. When the stove door is closed, the fire smolders and flame goes out, say because the air control was closed down a bit. Then when the air is opened wide, the stove fills with smoke until a flame appears. This ignites the smoke and one gets a mini-explosion. Poor draft can also cause this to happen.

Here's an example thread on the topic. If you search for puffback you will find many more:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/explosive-smoke.79954/

 

[Jags]

As far as the floor goes - I doubt that you will have any problems. Keep in mind that a wood stove is the equivalent of two big dudes standing there talking. Also typical is that stoves are located in corners or close to walls...a stronger part of the floor.

I understand that you may not want to use the ash pan, but is there really a need to remove it? There are several here that have eliminated the plugs for ash pans (of which I will never understand why a "plug" is used) but these were done from some fairly seasoned burners and tinkerers. I am not sure that I would be in any big hurry to modify a brand new stove.

With a proper drafting stove and a little practice - the backdraft explosions should not be an issue. It is not "normal" and is usually the result of the operator doing something that they shouldn't be doing.

 

[certified106]

Congrats on the purchase of the Mansfield! I think that the Mansfield and the Equinox are two of the most gorgeous stoves ever made and I'm sure you will be happy with it! As far as the backpuffing goes I wouldn't get to excited about it since it really isn't that common especially with a stove utilizing secondary combustion where the stove can't be shut down as tight as a catalytic stove.

The most important part of your whole wood burning experience is to make sure you have dry wood (less than 20%M.C. and less than 15% is better)! Without good dry wood woodburning in general can be a very frustrating experience as well as potentially dangerous due to low stack temperatures and the potential of creosote in your chimney. if your wood isn't dry you will also have a difficult time getting your stove up to the temperature that is needed to sustain secondary combustion. You should shoot for having firewood that you plan on burning cut, split, and stacked for a very minimum of 1 year before burning it in your stove. If you have your fuel source for the stove under control you will have 95% of any woodburning problems you may have under control!

 

[Highbeam]

I have a Hearthstone heritage and have shoved over 25 cords through it. Our stoves should be mostly similar in construction.

My ash pan is never used but I did nothing to the stove to change the way it could work if I so chose. My advice is to just forget that it is even there. There is nothing wrong with leaving it alone and shoveling ashes.

Don't worry about puffbacks unless you experience it. They are more a function of chimney, operation, and wood quality but not an ash pan issue.

I shored up my floor for the stove. It's not just 550+ lbs of stove. It is also the two fat dudes warming their butts, the 60+ lbs of firewood inside of it, the weight of the stove pipe, the weight of the hearth, and of course the weight of whatever kettle you have steaming away on top of it. It is also a box full of fire in your home and bad things could happen if the stove even settles a few inches while you're asleep. The fire doesn't usually kill people, it's the smoke inhalation. It takes very little effort or cost to add some concrete pier blocks, posts, and beams beneath the stove.

 

[firecracker_77]

I don't empty the ash pan on my Heritage. It's a mess to deal with. The only advantage to having a clean pan is that you can open the ash door a little and get a jet engine effect going to ignite the wood or to relight when down to coals. As long as you don't walk away or do it for an extended period of time, this is a good trick to get a poorly burning fire going or on re-lighting a few coals in the morning. You will have better burn times and should get overnight burns with a bigger firebox. The log length needed is the same, and in my experience, don't be afraid to take the splits and make them a little smaller. Unless you have a bed of really hot coals, you will benefit from the extra effort in terms of efficient burns.

 

[firecracker_77]

I don't empty the ash pan on my Heritage. It's a mess to deal with. The only advantage to having a clean pan is that you can open the ash door a little and get a jet engine effect going to ignite the wood or to relight when down to coals. As long as you don't walk away or do it for an extended period of time, this is a good trick to get a poorly burning fire going or on re-lighting a few coals in the morning. You will have better burn times and should get overnight burns with a bigger firebox. The log length needed is the same, and in my experience, don't be afraid to take the splits and make them a little smaller. Unless you have a bed of really hot coals, you will benefit from the extra effort in terms of efficient burns.

Given that you have a deeper firebox, you will find reloading from the front to be fine. Expect some ash to fall out when opening that door. Scooping ashes every couple of days and by-passing the ash drawer is no issue.

 

[Jags]

The only advantage to having a clean pan is that you can open the ash door a little and get a jet engine effect going to ignite the wood or to relight when down to coals

Please, please, please, please, please, don't do this. I had a backpuff SOOO bad that I thought it was going to blow my stove into the basement because of this practice. KABOOM. Yes, I was present the whole time, yes, I was diligent, and yes I thought it was cool too. It is not cool when you have to change your skivvies.

When you shut the ash pan door, the instant reduction in available oxygen will deprive the flame setting up a perfect scenario for a backpuff. And you WILL NOT know when too much is too much.

PLEASE take my advice to heart. Thank gawd for 3 screws in every pipe joint.

 

[firecracker_77]

Please, please, please, please, please, don't do this. I had a backpuff SOOO bad that I thought it was going to blow my stove into the basement because of this practice. KABOOM. Yes, I was present the whole time, yes, I was diligent, and yes I thought it was cool too. It is not cool when you have to change your skivvies.

When you shut the ash pan door, the instant reduction in available oxygen will deprive the flame setting up a perfect scenario for a backpuff. And you WILL NOT know when too much is too much.

PLEASE take my advice to heart. Thank gawd for 3 screws in every pipe joint.

I never experienced backpuffing. I stand corrected. Haven't done this in a while as my ash pan is totally full. I won't do this since you warned me.

 

[Jags]

I never experienced backpuffing. I stand corrected. Haven't done this in a while as my ash pan is totally full. I won't do this since you warned me.

Stove designs of the EPA type are designed for combustion air to enter into the firebox from above or in front (air wash). Opening the ash pan door brings in the air from the bottom (like a coal stove would). It sets it up for a burn that it was never designed for and will cause the wood to outgas (the fuel for the explosion) at an elevated rate. You could probably use this technique a hundred times with no problems but it is that one time....if it happens to you, you will be typing posts like THIS one the next time you hear of somebody doing it.

 

[begreen]

I had this happen once with the Castine. It was my fault and scared the heck out of me. I was still learning the stove and did exactly what Jags warned about. Had a bad fire start because I put too large wood on the kindling. Came back in a few minutes finding the kindling smoldering and impatiently opened the ashpan door a crack to encourage the fire to restart. About a minute later there was a mighty KERWHUMPH! and smoke poured out of every orifice and past the door gasket. That was the last time it I did that. After an underwear change I pulled off the larger splits and started the fire again, with the main door left slightly ajar until the fire was going well.

Note: This is one important reason why you want the connector pipe securely screwed at every joint.

 

[doug60]

I'm getting a Mansfield later this week and need to know pretty much everything about soapstone heating, and I have lots of questions.

Can I permanently remove the ash pan and cover the hole in the stove floor with a piece of soapstone, or a firebrick, and add door gasket if necessary to make a good seal, and then just shovel out the ashes as needed?

What is a "gas explosion"? My installer thinks I will have gas explosions if I remove the ash pan. The owners' manual, under trouble-shooting, recommends emptying the ash pan more frequently to stop gas explosions. Do I need to simply practice good housekeeping, or is this a serious issue? I never heard of such a thing before and I've heated with wood stoves for 30 years.

My house sits on concrete block and stone piers. The floors are old wood, the joists are 111 years old. Do I need to shore up the floor to support this gorgeous beast?

Thanks!!
Terri

Terri
Just my opinion
I was burning an Equinox for the last couple of years, and found this.
If your burning 24 / 7 which I do.
The ash pan will be your friend. I did make changes to the grate though.
I tried eliminating the ash pan and found it a pain to remove ash from the firebox.
You can try it both ways , just let the ash build up full & start removing ash from the fire box as necessary.
The ash pan full of ashes is a good insulator , so its not going to hurt anything.
Ashes will spill out when you do open the ash door though so be prepared for that.
I would just lay a wet towel down under the stove to catch the mess.
Make sure the gasket area is swept clean before closing the door.
I don't have any idea what the pan would have do do with gas explosions.
Its good practice to remove ash between loads anyway.
Don't open the clean-out with a full load of burning fuel!
doug

 

[firecracker_77]

Yeah...won't be doing that again

 

[firecracker_77]

Who am I kidding...that would require a clean-out of the ash pan which hasn't happened for a long time.