Newb has question about heat loss through attic

[glimmer]

This is a great site I'm learning a lot.

We just had a brick chimney torn down and a Duravent chimney installed.The wood stove is on the first floor which has double wall pipe,then Duravent through a second floor closet,through the attic and up through the roof.After the installers left I noticed that you can see up through the second floor to the attic where the chimney goes up between the firestop and insulation shield.All the proper parts are there.My question is that wouldn't that cause a lot of heat and condensation to go up into the attic?

I was thinking of building a frame out of plywood(at least 2 inches away from the chimney)and then make a collar for the chimney out of flashing and attach to the plywood frame to keep the heat from escaping.I hope that makes sense.

Does this seem like a good and safe idea?

 

[nshif]

So you can see through from the closet to the attic around the pipe? that aint right and probably not to code for fire spread reasons. To me you are missing a colar or something similar to a ceiling support box.

 

[glimmer]

I'm attaching an image so you can get a better idea of my problem.If you look on the upper left side you can see a gap between the firestop and insulation shield.This is where I can see to the attic.Is this a problem?

 

[BrotherBart]

I'm attaching an image so you can get a better idea of my problem.If you look on the upper left side you can see a gap between the firestop and insulation shield.This is where I can see to the attic.Is this a problem?

Definite problem. In a house fire situation that gap would act just a chimney all its own sucking air and fire up into the attic. In a normal situation it will act like a chimney sucking your warm air up into the attic.

They need to get the heck back out there and fix it.

 

[glimmer]

So what exactly is the problem?I noticed the insulation shield is misaligned to the firestop.Is there a part missing or is it just built wrong.

I hope I'm using the right terms here I'm going by the online manual.

 

[BrotherBart]

Hard to tell. Looks like they made the fire-stop from a piece of galvanized. Either the chimney isn't centered in the insulation shield or they cut the fire-stop wrong.

 

[nshif]

Sorry but on my POS pc i cant make heads or tails of the pic.

 

[glimmer]

Thanks for your help guys.So the problem is that the insulation shield should fit snug to the firestop.Is that correct?

 

[BrotherBart]

Thanks for your help guys.So the problem is that the insulation shield should fit snug to the firestop.Is that correct?

Yep. That is why it is called a fire-stop.

 

[glimmer]

Thanks I had a feeling that something wasn't right,guess I'm going to have to make a phone call.

 

[webbie]

I can't really see the picture closely - BUT, if the question is about the fit of firestops, it is normal for them to fit quite loosely around the insulated chimney - in fact, in some cases this is the design of the system as it allows heat to flow up the outside of the pipe and keep it a bit cooler. I would say that most firestops are at least 3/8" bigger than the pipe - and in my opinion, these should not be tightly caulked in most situations as they provide a certain cooling effect.

Perhaps Metal (our chimney engineer) will chime in here.

 

[KeithO]

Looks like you need one of these http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=266

Then, depending on the gap that is left, you might want one of these: http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=188

There should be no gap when you are done.

 

[elkimmeg]

you know that does not look like the proper ceiling pass threw support box but one that was either retrofitted or jerry rigged Some does not look right with that setup way beyond the seal to the chimney.. What did your inspector say

 

[glimmer]

I'm in Canada so inspectors may be different from the US.Here we have WETT certification and they are the inspectors as far as I know.This was installed by a WETT cert guy. The fire department does inspections but I think it's mostly for insurance.

 

[jtp10181]

I don't know how it works for simpson chimney, but for the HHT stuff we quite often use, the fire stops are a listed and tested part of the system. Making your own fire stop violates the listing of the entire chimney system. (At least that's what we have been told).

That looks like a really half assed home made attic shield. at first I thought it looks like a roof flashing mounted in the attic (possibly it is?)

You should look at the DuraTech or DuraPlus catalog (depending on what you have)

http://www.duravent.com/pdf/catalogs/duratech.pdf
http://www.duravent.com/pdf/catalogs/duraplus.pdf

and educate yourself a little, they have pictures in the front of them with numbers telling you what each part is called. Then you can find it in the catalog and see pictures.

You can also download the install instructions in PDF form

http://www.duravent.com/?page=ts.php


Also, FYI, I have been told the only part of the system than can be field fabricated is the attic shield, although that one does not look like it was made very well. Also in the picture the fire stop looks like it is too large or made for a 30 offset going through. Hard to tell form the angle of the pic.

 

[webbie]

Looking closer, it appears they used some sort of a trim ring along with an attic insulation shield.

A firestop should be mounted even with that plywood "ceiling" - unless the chimney maker specifies another part which is to be used through floors when the chimney is not supported by that particular floor/ceiling,.

 

[glimmer]

A firestop should be mounted even with that plywood "ceiling" - unless the chimney maker specifies another part which is to be used through floors when the chimney is not supported by that particular floor/ceiling,.[/quote]

The firestop is mounted even with the plywood ceiling.

Lots of feedback.Thanks.

 

[glimmer]

OK, looking more closely at the manual it seems that there is no firestop installed.What I thought was the firestop is actually the bottom of the insulation shield,I think.I can't understand why the WETT guy would have passed this for certification.

 

[elkimmeg]

I knew it did not look right. I've never seen a similar setup. A breach in the ceiling requires a approved system box not just an insulation shield.

part of the ceiling breach is draft stopping, meaning no visible space showing. Can't tell you why an Approved Wett installer made that installation.

Maybe it is time to ask him? Please post his response, I bet its going to be priceless

 

[BrotherBart]

I think the guy was counting that galvanized disk on top of the insulation shield as his fire-stop. And the inspector too.

 

[glimmer]

I called the WETT guy and told him of my concerns.I asked him if there should be a firestop below the insulation shield he said the "bucket" on the insulation shield acts as a firestop.I asked him about the gap around it and he said yes it doesn't fit right. He says the chimney is safe and ULC approved.Hmm.He is going to call the Duravent distributer and get back to me.We'll see what happens.

 

[Gooserider]

If you don't feel comfortable with his response, it might be worth seeing if there is a senior person (who certifies these guys?) that you could call in for a second opinion....

Gooserider

 

[Hogwildz]

I suggest you call Dura Vent, and take a few more photos and email them to Dura Vent.
I called them for help in figuring the chimney liner I wanted to use of theirs. The guy I spoke to was very cool, very supportive, and answered any questions I had. Hell, he even gave me each & every parts number I needed for my set up.
My gut feeling says red flags flying, whats yours tell you? I think I already know if your here and asking about it. You already know something is not right. Don't ignore it.

 

[elkimmeg]

According to their listing Druavent

" The attic insulation shield prevents attic insulation from contacting the chimney.
It include a firestop, a base, and a collar. The fire stop radiation shield must be used
where a chimney passes through a floor or ceiling without a ceiling support box"

where is the collar and radiation shield in you picture? Draft stop is a fire proof seal not a space one can look beyond into the attic.

What a bunch of BS

 

[glimmer]

I still haven't heard back from the installer yet.I have emailed Duravent with a picture.This installer has been in the business for 26 years,kinda makes you wonder how many other installs he's botched up.