No discount for you!!

[sixman]

I have been dealing with a local stove dealer trying to narrow down my options on a wood stove for install this spring and finally settled on the Lopi Endeavor. He emailed me a quote of $2075.00 for the stove and $1,100.00 for the pipe with all the stuff needed for install including the roof brace kit. Only 8 foot of the total 12 foot pipe is double wall. His estimate included all of the part numbers so I started checking on the web to compare prices. The prices I located on the web at www.class-a-chimneys.com are about 30% cheaper than what he was charging me, his prices were full MSRP. I emailed him to see if he would give a discount on the pipe since I am buying a stove from him at the same time. "We do not discount pipe." was his reply. Even after paying shipping, I still come out about $300 cheaper by buying on line. I am all about one stop shopping and really want to do all my business with this guy since he will be the one I have to deal with in the future if I need parts or repairs but that is a lot of money to me. I always thought that part of something was way better than all of nothing. I do not expect him to match whatever the lowest price on the web is but at least offer a 10% discount on the pipe when purchasing a new stove at full pop!! Just my opinion.

 

[BrotherBart]

It is his decision if he wants your business and yours if you want him to have it.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Do you think it would be worth paying $300 for him to install everything? Is it something you would feel comfortable doing yourself?

Matt

 

[gzecc]

Who is doing the install?

 

[thinkxingu]

If he's not doing the install, he may feel like he's not making a ton of money--I'm not sure what the markup is on stoves and piping material, but if it's like other industries it's not much. In any case, I would do one of these things:
1. If nothing has been discounted, I would ask for a discount on the total sale. $3175 is a different piece of change, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a discount, especially at the end of the season. If he's not installing this, you might tell him you can get the whole deal online but that you're willing to give him the business for a reasonable discount. Tell him what you think is reasonable.
2. Wait a month or two until he's slow, and then walk in on a slow day. Ask if he wants the business then!
3. Find another dealer and see what he can do.

BUT: if the stove is discounted in the price you quoted here, and it's a decent discount, then I wouldn't expect him to also discount the pipe. Let the man make some money somewhere.

S

 

[sixman]

I am doing the install myself as I am very comfortable doing this kind of work and have plenty of experienced people to help out on a weekend install. The stove is not discounted either, all is full MSRP. I just felt that being end of season and since I was purchasing the whole thing from him, something off of the 40- 60% mark up was not unreasonable. I think I will try another dealer or end up getting the pipe on line.

 

[Fsappo]

I would talk to another Lopi dealer. They may not be as local, but I'm certain just about any retailer...in april.. with a cash and carry sale..will discount the pipe at least 10% if selling you a stove. I would try giving one more local hearth shop a try. I admire you for doing so instead of blindly just buying online and assuming it's cheaper. Thats why I buy veggies from farmers instead of walmart. Anyhow, unless this guy is so small that he brings pipe in special order for each job, he needs to be buying class A at 60% off or so with free freight. a 10% discount will keep a local customer happy and he would still be doubling his money. If you were 1000+ miles away from me, I'd even offer to sell you the piping and ship it out.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

I am doing the install myself as I am very comfortable doing this kind of work and have plenty of experienced people to help out on a weekend install. The stove is not discounted either, all is full MSRP. I just felt that being end of season and since I was purchasing the whole thing from him, something off of the 40- 60% mark up was not unreasonable. I think I will try another dealer or end up getting the pipe on line.

I don't know how far and in between stove dealers are in Texas, but I would sure try to find another.

I did my own install, the first dealer I talked to wanted $2600 for the stove and $1400 for the pipe/flue. Second dealer I stumbled in to had the same exact stove for $400 less, then gave me a discount for my military service, and the final total for pipe and flue from them was $922. (Simpson dura-vent triple wall, all stainless, 24' of chimney, single wall flue two 45's and a slip joint, all Simpson.) Funny thing was the 1st dealer was 55 miles away, the second was 17.. win win, as they say.

 

[sixman]

Awesome pics of the process Dakatos Dad!! It looks like you did a real nice install. I am starting the demo on the area where my old central heat unit is and planning on putting a Lopi Endeavor in it's place. We have a concrete slab so the hearth should be easy, just a decorative pad. I am about a year behind you and looking forward to wood heat this winter. I will try to take some photos along the way to post later.

 

[begreen]

The Endeavor is a great stove, but it would be worth talking with a few other dealers in your area about alternatives. They aren't the only show in town and the Lopi is not the only 3 cu ft stove on the market.

 

[sixman]

BeGreen, any suggestions of comparative stoves in the same price range that I could look at?

 

[begreen]

The Avalon Olympic is virtually the same stove. But I would also look at a Pacific Energy Summit and maybe one of the big Buck models? If a cat, this years happy stove is the Blaze King.

 

[sixman]

I am new to this but don't the secondary burn tubes basically do the same thing as a cat?

 

[Pagey]

I am new to this but don't the secondary burn tubes basically do the same thing as a cat?

Six,

A cat and a non-cat (whether it uses the burn tube design or the "downdraft" design) have the same goal: burn volatile/combustible gases to 1.) produce more heat and 2.) reduce emissions/creosote. The cat stoves do this by passing the gases through a specially treated catalyst which causes the smoke/gases to ignite at 500F. The "reburn" or non-cat stoves achieve this by getting the firebox very hot (1,100F or so) and introducing pre-heated oxygen to the top of the fire, burning the smoke/gases.

So, yes, they do the same thing, but they achieve the "same thing" via different means, really.

 

[Himiler]

I had a somewhat similar experience with the Lopi dealer out of Plano, TX. Having owned an air conditioning business at one time, I understand the reasoning behind marking up materials as a part of the total profit picture. I also understand that each customer must be worked with on an individual basis. The dealer in question could have explained the reasoning behind his decision to make a policy out of not not discounting materials, or he could have restructured his offering. A simple curt reply indicates to me this particular dealer has enough business and doesn't need any more. Even though I live in just North of Dallas, I'm planning to be travelling to Sherman, Sulpher Springs, and Mt. Vernon in search of a dealer who really deserves my business. Yes, you could say I'm putting too much time in this and wasting money and travel time, but hey, everybody in the family is in on the deal!

 

[sixman]

Himiler you are correct. His reply email only contained for words, "We don't discount pipe". I think he must have too much business. This dealer is also a lawn and garden tractor dealer and I have heard that if you need stove service during warm weather or lawn tractor service during cold weather you are just out of luck. I think I will try another dealer and see if they need my business.

 

[sixman]

Pagey it sounds like the cat stove would be better suited for long burns but does this promote creosote build up in the chimney since it is burning so much cooler? Also the first dealer only handled non-cat stoves and really talked them down as finicky and needed lots of maintenance.

 

[Pagey]

Pagey it sounds like the cat stove would be better suited for long burns but does this promote creosote build up in the chimney since it is burning so much cooler? Also the first dealer only handled non-cat stoves and really talked them down as finicky and needed lots of maintenance.

As long as you are burning dry, properly seasoned wood, the cat is eating up what would otherwise be deposited as creosote. Again, it achieves the same goal as a non-cat stove, only it does it via a different method: it uses a ceramic catalyst treated with special metals which cause the smoke/gases to ignite at lower temperatures.

The fact that the cat allows the smoke to light off at "cooler" temps really has no bearing on creosote formation - either way, the smoke is being burned.

 

[rdust]

Also the first dealer only handled non-cat stoves and really talked them down as finicky and needed lots of maintenance.

This has been covered many times on this board you should be able to turn up a bunch of threads on it.

In short both technologies will work fine with a proper install and properly seasoned wood.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Awesome pics of the process Dakatos Dad!! It looks like you did a real nice install. I am starting the demo on the area where my old central heat unit is and planning on putting a Lopi Endeavor in it's place. We have a concrete slab so the hearth should be easy, just a decorative pad. I am about a year behind you and looking forward to wood heat this winter. I will try to take some photos along the way to post later.

Take lots of pictures. 15 years from now you won't be able to remember what you did where.. and they may come in handy in case of an "incident" with the stove, lets hope not, but life does happen. We only have about 1/4 of the pics we took posted, but we live where there is no inspection or code that covers a wood stove install, so we wanted lots of evidence that we tried to do it as safe as possible..

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Pagey it sounds like the cat stove would be better suited for long burns but does this promote creosote build up in the chimney since it is burning so much cooler? Also the first dealer only handled non-cat stoves and really talked them down as finicky and needed lots of maintenance.

Sixman, you probably saw my earlier post about using our stove for 2 years before cleaning the chimney and then getting less than a cup of soot out of the chimney and no creosote.

We, like all Fireview users, burn our stove on low all the time. How low? The draft is labeled from 1 to 4. Once the fire is going (usually about 10 minutes on a reload) good, we flip the cat on and turn the draft down, usually to .25. This can vary by installation as some burn at .5 and some .75 but rarely do we read of someone burning over 1 on the Fireview.

An exception can be made in spring and fall. For instance a few nights ago I put in one good sized round log and just let it smolder all night but left the draft open full and the cat off. Normally one would never leave a draft fully open but with only one piece of wood there is no chance of a big fire. It just sort of smolders all night.

 

[begreen]

Pagey it sounds like the cat stove would be better suited for long burns but does this promote creosote build up in the chimney since it is burning so much cooler? Also the first dealer only handled non-cat stoves and really talked them down as finicky and needed lots of maintenance.

There are a couple different cat stove designs. There is the simple draft style with a bypass for the cat and there is a more complex, side draft style with a refractory afterburn chamber. The latter can be higher maintenance over time. Blaze King's, Woodstock's or Buck's cat stove design is the simpler type. We haven't heard of high maintenance on these stoves due to the cat.

 

[cmonSTART]

Well, I would at least do something if I were in his shoes, especially this time of year. Remember though, if he's not a huge operation the shipping charges do eat up a bit of his margin. If not, its his loss. There are lots of good stoves out there.

 

[fossil]

The Avalon Olympic is virtually the same stove. But I would also look at a Pacific Energy Summit and maybe one of the big Buck models? If a cat, this years happy stove is the Blaze King.

Olympic is the sister of the Liberty...3.1 ft³. Lopi Endeavor equates to an Avalon Spokane 1750...2.2 ft³. Rick

 

[begreen]

Oops, that's what I get for not looking it up and relying on old brain cells.:red: Thx for the correction Rick. I should have said the Rainier.