Non electrical pellet stove

[blades]

Anybody know who or what co. is the supplier now? If it is USSC then it's offmy list

There is another no electric unit out now based on the rocket stove principlals. Liberator rocket heaters. Don't know any more than what is on web sight.

 

[Spupilup]

The other difference I am seeing is the venting set-up.


Deltadude has 3" straight up per Gary's original specs. Spupilup has some 45* elbows and increased to 4". Is it the 4" or the combo of 4" and elbows which make it run better? Is it worth the cost of 4" venting to give it a try?

Interesting on the stainless hopper/feed/chute...

I had no choice. My installation was a little tricky because of the fieldstone fireplace directly behind the stove. I had to stay to the right of the fireplace as it went up the wall so my Wiseway is a little off center. I also had no interest in going up the existing chimney. I've closed that off. I also have a fairly new metal roof so I didn't want to go straight up and out through the roof. So, instead, I went up a couple of feet, over 45 degrees, out through the thimble in the wall, up 45 degrees to the cap. Total length of the installation from floor to cap was 14 feet. If anything, I should be the one having the issues rather than someone with a straight pipe. And, the 3" or 4" pipe might limit the top end as far as temperatures go but based on Delta's description of his set up, he should be every bit as good if not better with the 3" pipe than I am with the 4" and all the bends.

 

[Spupilup]

Anybody know who or what co. is the supplier now? If it is USSC then it's off my list.

Mine was made in Oregon. Since US Stoves bought the company I have no idea where they are manufactured.

 

[Spupilup]

I also notice that the users who claim success with this indicate they run the stove hot once or twice a day, this will also help with crud building up and blocking up the works. I regularly allow my wood stove to burn hot for awhile after startup and I find this helps allot with issues as well.

Also I stand by what I said earlier about venting, as with all naturally aspirated appliances this is crucial to good performance. The issue I have with this stove is there no visual indication of how the fire is doing unless you have the model with the viewing window. On both my pellet and wood stove I can tell how the fire is burning by looking at it, ie: lazy flame on the pellet stove or smoldering fire on the wood burner. Then I know I need to change something. With this rig it seems the operator has to guess and that is not a good idea.

The glass window has been available on these stoves for at least a few years. I doubt they make them without the window anymore. The window is located perfectly for revealing how well the burn is going. Also, unlike a conventional woodstove, these stoves can be monitored and corrected in no time. If I see the temperature is starting to fluctuate slightly under 400 on the thermometer at the top of the stove it usually means it's time to clean off the secondary burn tray. Within two or three minutes with the use of the damper I can have the temperature up by over 50 degrees. This is like no woodstove I've ever owned (remember, I burned cord wood for over 26 years).

So, you have multiple ways of viewing the stove to assess how the burn is going. First, look at the thermometer. If you can't read the thermometer from the other room, how does the flame look through the glass window. Is it just flickering up a little or is it a strong flame. Adjust accordingly. Take a look at the flame through the damper holes all along the lowest part of the stove. That's another way to get a sense of the burn. Pull the burn tube slide cover and you can also size up the burn. To say there's know way to know how well the stove is performing without the glass is simply not true.

Without actually working with this stove, a person can not have a real idea of how responsive and flexible it can be. It makes my old Hearthstone look like a relic.

 

[Spupilup]

The other difference I am seeing is the venting set-up.


Deltadude has 3" straight up per Gary's original specs. Spupilup has some 45* elbows and increased to 4". Is it the 4" or the combo of 4" and elbows which make it run better? Is it worth the cost of 4" venting to give it a try?

Interesting on the stainless hopper/feed/chute...

My feeling is that Deltadude's stove is not breathing well because it hasn't been thoroughly cleaned in awhile. I have a feeling that some of the chimney sweeping he's been doing might have forced the ash that clings to the inside of the pipe, into the upper portion of his stove. His inability to get to all of the bends in his stove means ash has been accumulating for a very long time. If it were me, I'd take the stove out into the yard, grab my power washer and blow the thing out. I'd also take about an hour with the tools I pictures and maybe even get more aggressive than I do with my own stove. I can only imagine the carbon buildup down the feed tube and around the primary burn chamber.

I would also develop a routine for checking the stove, cleaning the secondary burn tray, emptying the ash tray and move the pellets in the hopper. That way I know the stove is breathing well and the pellets are using their weight to help with the feed.

 

[Lake Girl]

deltadude bought his stove in 2012... US Stoves bought rights before March 2014. The article mentions it has been redesigned so I would suspect deltadude's stove is a very different beast that spupilup's. Wonder if the stove could be retro-fitted with the glass. See the link below for the manual of the US Wiseway. Might be an interesting comparison between the two... maybe deltadude can improve stove performance based on the info in the newer manual.
http://forgreenheat.blogspot.ca/2014/03/gravity-fed-pellet-stove-wins-vesta.html

http://www.usstove.com/Manuals/USSC/GW1949.pdf

 

[deltadude]

Everybody does...............n'yuk.

Typical response for someone living in a illusory state of mind so my suggestion for you is have your wife of someone toss cold water on you, this may wake you from your dream world.

Look not trying to cause any problems but you got to admit this is getting kind of funny.

 

[Spupilup]

deltadude bought his stove in 2012... US Stoves bought rights before March 2014. The article mentions it has been redesigned so I would suspect deltadude's stove is a very different beast that spupilup's. Wonder if the stove could be retro-fitted with the glass. See the link below for the manual of the US Wiseway. Might be an interesting comparison between the two... maybe deltadude can improve stove performance based on the info in the newer manual.
http://forgreenheat.blogspot.ca/2014/03/gravity-fed-pellet-stove-wins-vesta.html

http://www.usstove.com/Manuals/USSC/GW1949.pdf

Why, without even seeing one of these stoves in person would you "suspect" that deltadude's stove is a very different beast? If it were a very different beast it would have required recertification by both UL and the EPA. It's the same stove. The only differences are the glass door and a handful of cosmetics. Trust me, I explored all of this before I bought my stove. I talked to the guy who responded to the article in the first link you have up there. I've mentioned Smokey's more than once in the course of this conversation. I also spoke at length with the northeast distributor, Gravity Feed Stoves.

I don't know where you got the March 2014 date as when US Stoves bought the rights. Gary was still posting on the Wiseway google group right on through till last fall without making mention of it. The various dealers were still actively representing Wiseway up through late last summer. The actual sale took place sometime during the second or third quarter of last year, 2015, not 2014. I doubt Gary would have been representing hiimself as the owner as late as second quarter 2015 if he had sold the company in 2014.

 

[deltadude]

Well I will agree that the top of the stove needs cleaning, I do everything else already that you are suggesting and use a wood chisel to clear off the carbon. But my problems started right at first with the stove being brand new. Sometimes it would get so hot that my tubes were turning red so I knew I was getting great air intake and that is when Gary told me to cover the intake hole with a can and he sent me a small burn pot. This condition was not consistent one time it would flare up and another time it wouldn't burn. One of my thoughts were then, could it be the barometric pressure affecting my stove. Again Gary suggested I buy a barometric damper which I did, this I have not installed due to the fact that there's times it acts as though it's not getting the air passing through it. Last night it burned great for a short time. 600 degrees before I opened the slider a tad bit, then over time it begins to die out or sit between 200 to 400 degrees. Just hard to regulate but I will give removing the chimney at the base where it fastens to the stove and clean it out a try. Thanks for the suggestion. Also I don't see the insert your speaking about on Smokeys parts list.

 

[Spupilup]

Here is the Wiseway manual from 2011:

http://www.northidahoblaze.com/uploads/2/5/0/4/25043339/gw-1949-stoveinstructions97-2003-1.1.pdf

I tried to find a newer manual online but the Gravity Feed Woodstove website has been taken down. I can tell you that the differences between my manual and the one from 2011 are that mine goes into detail about how to assemble the stove and properly seal it. Beyond that, they are pretty much identical.

The differences between the stove I have and one of the earlier stoves are as follows:

1) No brand marking on the large square block of metal covering the burn chambers. On the later models the word WISEWAY was cut out of the metal to identify the brand of stove.
2) The design of the support and large tray were changed and the results were a more steady and sturdy footing for the later stoves.
3) The hopper was enlarged from 40 pounds to 60 pounds on the later stoves.
4) The manner in which the hopper is opened so that pellets will move down the chute and into the burn chamber was changed from a lever that was pulled up on/down on the inside of the hopper to a knob that was moved up/down on the outside of the hopper on the later stoves.
5) The handle used for tilting and moving the stove when the removeable wheels are installed was deleted on the later models.
6) A removeable glass window was installed on later stoves.
7) The later stoves were shipped with gaskets for sealing the hopper, feed tube lid and glass.

None of this would constitute a wildly different beast.

 

[Spupilup]

Well I will agree that the top of the stove needs cleaning, I do everything else already that you are suggesting and use a wood chisel to clear off the carbon. But my problems started right at first with the stove being brand new. Sometimes it would get so hot that my tubes were turning red so I knew I was getting great air intake and that is when Gary told me to cover the intake hole with a can and he sent me a small burn pot. This condition was not consistent one time it would flare up and another time it wouldn't burn. One of my thoughts were then, could it be the barometric pressure affecting my stove. Again Gary suggested I buy a barometric damper which I did, this I have not installed due to the fact that there's times it acts as though it's not getting the air passing through it. Last night it burned great for a short time. 600 degrees before I opened the slider a tad bit, then over time it begins to die out or sit between 200 to 400 degrees. Just hard to regulate but I will give removing the chimney at the base where it fastens to the stove and clean it out a try. Thanks for the suggestion. Also I don't see the insert your speaking about on Smokeys parts list.

It's my suspicion that current inconsistencies relate to the need for a good cleaning. I am amazed that with the sort of installation you have, that you're having any problems at all. I'm going to assume that outside the house there are no odd issues like lots of trees close by, you're located on the downward side of a hill or anything else that could have an impact on downdraft. I'm also going to assume that you're burning a high quality, softwood pellet. I'm also going to assume that the top of the chimney or pipe is high enough above the roofline as to avoid any interference. With all of those issues addressed, I'm really at a loss.

Like I've said, your setup is superior to mine. I have bends in my pipe, I'm on the downward slope of a hollow, I'm buried in the forest with cedars and pines all around me; I should be the one with your problems. I guess I'd give it one more go. I'd remove the stove from the hose and get every last speck of creosote, ash, anything that could be hung up anywhere in the stove. I'd install that barometric damper (if you're pipes are glowing, that's insane) hook everything back up and fire it up with some killer Douglas Fir.

If it fails after all that, I don't know what to say. Put it up for sale on Craigslist.

 

[Spupilup]

I was finally able to open up the USSC PDF. The owners manual offered by USSC is, for all practical purposes, the same manual I have. I had to laugh when I saw in the first picture that USSC removed the Wiseway identification from the lower part of the stove and replaced it with USSC badge. It looks like they changed the feet on the stove from the ones on my Wiseway. It also looks like there's a hinge on the feed tube lid and hopper. Otherwise, the rest of the stove is unchanged.

 

[Deezl Smoke]

Typical response for someone living in a illusory state of mind so my suggestion for you is have your wife of someone toss cold water on you, this may wake you from your dream world.

Look not trying to cause any problems but you got to admit this is getting kind of funny.

Oh I'm not trying to cause any problems either. Perhaps I mistook your comment about building your own house and can certainly figure out a pellet stove a bit harshly. But I stand by my general point in reply that understanding a pellet stove issue can be far enough away from house construction that you can overlook something. Even with the inventor of the pellet stove on the phone, unless he stopped by to see it in person, things can get lost in the translation.
(offering handshake asking to let past go and look forward)

 

[Lake Girl]

Article from Alliance for Greenheat above date March 2014 ... mentioned US stoves buying the company. Perhaps it took a year for all the legal wrangling. Perhaps John updated the blog about the US Stove purchase after the original entry. Couldn't find a company announcement...

Thanks for the old manual...
As to changes and recertification, I would think that recertification would be part of the company change but it may not have as all the components appear to be roughly the same. You don't consider a window a significant design change? Visual sight of the burn helps with adjustments. There are latches on the hopper that do not appear to be on the original ... without the gasket and latches, another source of air is introduced that does effect the burn. The change on the mechanism to open/close the feed door would allow for external control and the inclusion of the latches for a tighter seal. This would also prevent burn-back. The feed chute appears to have a gasket and is also latched. The original design doesn't have that latch either. You may think those changes are minor but they do change the burn quality and consistency. For conventional pellet stoves that have hopper gaskets & latches, we have new members showing up with poor burns only to find it is a gasket that needs to be replaced or latches that need adjustment to tighten ...

Proper cleaning never hurts But the bold/underlined changes make a difference too. Hopefully deltadude will let us know if latches are in place on his stove....

 

[Spupilup]

Visual sight of the burn does not, in itself change the burn.

Latches on the hopper and feed tube lid were NEVER used on the Wiseway. They are both changes, as I thought I clearly stated, that were done by USSC, not Wiseway.

Gaskets were shipped with the Wiseway in response to concerns about oxygen getting into the hopper adding to the potential for burn back.

Deltadude and I DO NOT have latches. I never said I had latches. Lake Girl, PLEASE READ my posts more clearly. I will say it again, and this time, I will use caps. IF YOU'VE NEVER SEEN MY STOVE, DELTADUDE'S STOVE OR THE USSC STOVE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Consistently, this is the problem with people voicing their opinions about these Wiseway Stoves. Succinctly, they don't know WTF their talking about.

 

[Lake Girl]

The window is located perfectly for revealing how well the burn is going.

The use of gaskets around the hopper and feed tube helped to eliminate any oxygen from getting into the stove above the primary burn chamber.

I have read your posts ... the above is to my point. I have never voiced an opinion on the Wiseway stove just mentioned that there have been reports of the early stoves having problems and provided post links for both positive and negative experiences. What I am trying to get at, for deltadude's sake, is the changes that may have occurred since 2011 when he bought the stove that may improve it's reliability and burn quality. He does not have the window which seems to be of value to you. Does he have gaskets in place? Latches may be another improvement that may help his situation as he clearly has had a different experience.

Not at cross-purposes here ...

 

[Spupilup]

I don't see where I said it effected the quality of the burn. The addition of the window was made for cosmetic reasons, not for improving the function of the stove. I spoke with Gene at Smokey's when I was gathering information about these stoves and that is precisely what I was told. Lake Girl, I really don't understand what you're trying to achieve here with your baseless claims. Wouldn't it be better for you to let a couple of actual owners who understand how these unique stoves work try to help another owner sort out his issues rather than interject pointless suppositions?

Deltadude acknowledged that he needed to clean out the upper portion of his stove, something he had NEVER done. He also acknowledged that he did not do what Gary had recommended when it came to installing the barometric damper. If my pipes were glowing read, I'd know I had to curtail the draft through the use of a damper. I also know that there could have been build up in the upper reaches of the stove by this time. That could have caused some of the inconsistencies he was having with his burn (and no glass window would have made a difference in the burn). I also know that without actually seeing the installation, the majority of these suggestions are based purely on conjecture.

Look, all this stove consists of is four long square pipes welded together. The feed tube, chute, hopper and burn chambers weren't the result of knowlege gained through space exploration. Through trial and error the design was honed until it was finally released to the general public around 2011. The fundamental design of the stove remained unchanged and is still the same even after USSC purchased the patent in 2015. The fact that is has worked for so many people that one of the largest woodstove manufacturers would want to buy the design speaks to this.

If it works well for me even with my tricky install, works for Deezl's folks, works for mikelcan (an earlier adopter) and countless others, MAYBE there's something up with Deltadude's installation, something we cannot see through the internet. It could be something very subtle that, as Deezl already mentioned, "Even with the inventor of the pellet stove on the phone, unless he stopped by to see it in person, things can get lost in the translation. "

Lake Girl, keep making assumptions about what you think the problem is. Keep posting to the thread about a stove you have no experience with nor have, in all likelihood, ever seen first hand. Keep quoting me in an attempt to prove a vacuous point. I restore old Land Rovers, want to make assertions on how that should be done, too?

 

[Lake Girl]

I am not making assumptions on what I think the problem is ... just getting all the options on the table for deltadude to try. Your entries had value until you starting making assumptions of your own.