Noob questions...Creosote? Chimney fire?

[Scott2373]

So again, being new to wood stove ownership, I have several questions for the pros here. I've owned the stove for about a month now, burning all slab wood that could stand to be seasoned more. If my glass is darkening or turning black, is that a good indication that I may have creosote buildup in my new chimney? It's a 6 inch Simpson Duravent double wall stainless. Would burning for that short a period and those conditions be cause for concern? Now, with that in mind, I understand how real a possibility a chimney fire is with excess creosote. So if it were to happen, what stack temps would I be looking for and how would I know if I have a chimney fire? Once I realize that I do have a chimney fire, how do you put it out or get it under control (after calling the FD, of course), or extinguish the fire in the stove? Is it just a matter of a fire extinguisher or spreading the coals? Thanks a bunch!

 

[madison]

You will more than likely hear a chimney first (first hand experience x 2 with an open fireplace and masonry chimney). And more than likely the fire would be above where the stack temp is monitored so I think this would not be an indicator with a properly placed stack probe.

I would suggest allowing more air in general, and intermitantly burn really hot fires until you get a seasoned supply of wood.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Scott, slab wood can be okay to burn if it is dry but then you have to be careful to not fill the stove with all slab wood lest the stove overheat. Your wood is not dry so yes, you have to keep an eye out for creosote. Yes, the black glass tells you something about both the wood and what your chimney might look like. Hopefully that is not too bad at this point but check it regularly; at least monthly and clean as necessary.

There are several thoughts on chimney fires but it is difficult to stop them once they get started. Throwing ashes or sand on the fire in the firebox will help a bit. Closing off all drafts is totally necessary. Stack temperatures can soar for sure but not sure just how high they can get. You will usually know if you have one as it will roar like a jet engine.

Big thing is keep an eye on the chimney and do your best to get some dry wood. We've burned wood for over 50 years and have yet to experience a chimney fire. However, we do not burn green wood and strive to let the wood dry for 2-3 years or more before burning it. At present, we have cleaned our chimney one time since putting up a new one. We are now into our 5th burning season and have got about a cup of soot from the chimney. That is what can be accomplished with good firewood and a good stove.

 

[Scott2373]

Thanks Madison. I'm doing just that right now, burning a really hot fire, that is. I haven't gotten my stove up to 500 degrees prior to now and I'm smelling things I haven't smelled before, so it got me wondering. I want to be in the right frame of mind and be aware of the warning indicators, should something occur. I don't know if what I'm smelling is excess creosote burning off, but I know for certain that it's not the paint curing. Wow, did THAT ever stink. I sure am glad that's over with, lol.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Scott, you will get some smells the hotter you get the stove but they should be short lived. Cracking a window can help as can lighting a few candles. Also, it is not only the stove that will give off a few new smells but also the flue pipe.

 

[soupy1957]

I'll address the black on the window..............

You probably let your fire smolder or kept the wood too close to the glass, to get all that black on the glass. An efficiently burning fire, one where the secondaries are kicked in, should "wash" the glass. I would say that the black on the glass is an indicator of a non-efficient burn and is a sign of things to come with your flue pipe, (creosote), but not after only a month.

Avoid burning glue, trash, treated wood, colored newspaper.............just burn natural, untainted wood.

When the stove is cool however, a great product for getting the "black" off the glass is "Magic Eraser."

-Soupy1957

 

[certified106]

I am sure some Rangley or Jotul owners will chime in here but I am wondering how you have burned in the stove for a month now and not managed to get it over 500F? If you aren't burning hot enough or to get and sustain secondary combustion you will constantly struggle with black glass and creosote issues with your chimney. Are you getting and sustaining secondary combustion? Can you explain in a little bit more detail the specifics of how you have been loading the stove, shutting the stove down, and average temps? If you can provide those details people can give you a little bit better advice.

Edit: By the way I forgot to mention that stovepipes can smell horrible as you break them in and that would be my guess as to where the smell came from. If you are having a chimney fire you won't be able to smell the fire in the chimney but more than likely you will get your stovepipe hot enough that it will smell pretty bad.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

I'm not a pro . . . just a regular Joe (well Jake) who happens to burn wood . . . but I'll take a stab at answering your questions.

If I haven't done so already . . . welcome to the forum.

Smells . . . I doubt you're smelling creosote . . . any creosote build up would be in the chimney . . . maybe the flue pipe . . . unless you're outside and smelling it you shouldn't smell it inside since the natural draft would be carrying the smell up and out of the house when the stove is lit . . . now you could smell it perhaps if you had a down draft situation when the stove was sitting there cold . . . but that doesn't sound like the case. My guess is that you're still smelling the paint and/or oils burning off . . . which in fact can smell not nearly as bad as they do when being cured at the lower temps.

Certified raises a good point . . . how do you run your stove . . . this might help us some . . . as he said 500 degrees on the stove (assuming not on or in the stove pipe) isn't really all that hot . . . I know for me personally 450-600 degrees F seems to be the optimal temps for my stove . . . and even now . . . once in a blue moon . . . when the temps go a bit higher than normal I get a tell-tale smell from the hot metal.

Backwoods also makes a good point on not stuffing the firebox full of slabs . . . I like slabs myself . . . especially for use in the shoulder season and for use as kindling.

Black glass . . . this may or may not be indicative that you are making creosote . . . I should say it's often a bad sign . . . often a sign that the wood you're using is not fully seasoned, the air control is set too low, the burn temps aren't hot enough . . . or it could just be that a split rolled up against the glass and impeded the air wash. My own guess . . . it's either the wood, air control or you're running too cool.

As I said, there may or may not be creosote being produced. Generally I would guess that you shouldn't have to worry with only a month of burning . . . but that said . . . in the right (or rather wrong) conditions you could plug up a chimney in a couple of weeks. Again . . . it all depends on how you burn and what you burn.

Temp for a chimney fire . . . without doing a search . . . I'm not really sure . . . I do know it's pretty hot to get the stuff to ignite.

Signs of a chimney fire: Glowing stove pipe, flames shooting out of the chimney, black creosote on the outside ground, the sound of Rice Krispies falling down your stove pipe, the sound of a 757 jet taking off . . . or you may not notice very much at all . . .

There are lots of ways to control a chimney fire . . . I like dropping a chimney bomb of ABC dry chemical powder down the chimney or shooting an extinguisher of the same sort up through the chimney . . . some other folks like to kill the fire by tossing a wet newspaper on the fire or suffocating it with sand . . . others slow up the fire by cutting off the secondary air with tin foil.

Me . . . I'm cheap and lazy and don't like drama . . . I control a chimney fire by making sure I don't have a chimney fire. As stated by others it all starts with good, well-seasoned wood . . . burning at the proper temps (not too hot, not too cold) and using the proper air control . . . and then you follow that up with regular inspections and cleanings as necessary. You do this and you should never have to worry about how to put out a chimney fire at 2 a.m. . . . just ask Brother Bart . . . I believe he'll be one of the first to tell you that in X numbers of years since burning good wood and burning properly he has never had a chimney fire . . . me . . . I'm going on Year 4 with no chimney fires.

 

[Scott2373]

The reason we haven't gotten it up to 500 yet was simply because the temps here haven't necessitated it. The one time I had a really good secondary burn going, my stove top thermo was at around 385. I'm guessing my top temps will not get very high because there is a large space between the baffle and stove top, due to the top load feature. I got it hotter today just in an attempt to burn off the sooty glass and any possible build-up in the chimney. We'll get the stove up to about 350 (according to the top thermo), then maybe feed it a little bit more and the house is at 72 in no time with the assistance of a strategically placed ceiling fan downstairs and the one drawing the air into the bedroom upstairs. Unfortunately, I don't have any really good dry wood to burn, as being new to this, I figured the wood would dry as necessary as it burned. I have about 9-10 FC of the slab wood, so I figured we wouldn't need any more than that. As far as stacking the box, I usually lay some pieces N/S on either side of the primary air hole then stack E/W on top of those and alternate from there. It works quite well so far, but I think that the unseasoned wood is my culprit as to the dirty glass.

 

[leeave96]

One thing I would add IMHO is your goal should be no smoke out the chimney, maybe a bit of steam. If you learn to run your stove for this end result, you will figure out what stove top temps work regardless of the fire off the logs or secondaries in the stove. No smoke = a clean chimney.
So what I've been doing with my mighty fine Englander 30-NCH is running it like an old gear drive garden tractor. I run it full throttle, and control my speed with the gears. What I mean is I run the stove hot - for me a good 550ish stove top gives me no smoke out the chimney. The gears - that's the number of splits in the stove. So I can get a clean burn without loading up the stove full and in doing so (and letting the fire simply die down on warmer days - kind of a 1-shot fire) realize lower heat output from the stove.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[agartner]

For those days where you just wanna take the chill off of things a bit, the trick is to just load light. Small amount of wood in the stove, and let 'er rip until you start getting up to temp, and then start ratcheting the air down. Hot burns are efficient burns, and you want to get the box temps up to the point where the secondaries start doing their thing as quickly as you can and then set the air to let it hold a steady temp. The thing is always to let the stove "cycle"....get up to temp quickly - hold that temp for as long as the fuel will allow (Visible flame in the firebox and active secondaries), then let allow the temps to descend back down (coaling stage). Control your overall heat output by 1) varying how much fuel you use and 2) choosing at what point in the descent/coaling stage you reload.

I'm not totally convinced the slabs are wet, although they could be. From reading your description, it seems to me you might be ratcheting down the air too soon in an attempt to run your stove "cooler", but that's just my take from reading the post.

 

[Scott2373]

I have been aiming for no smoke, perhaps it's my wood, but it seems that if I let 'er blaze then turn it down my secondaries quit and the fire starts to smolder rather than burn continuously. I have managed to get a really good 7-hour burn out of it once, but not consistently. Maybe I need to work on my technique %-P

 

[BrotherBart]

Don't think that you have to turn it all the way down. What you are looking for is that "sweet spot" where you maintain a burn, don't smoke up the hood and you keep your house warm. Different with every stove and chimney and sometimes with every load of wood.

 

[agartner]

Keep messin with the technique. But it could be the wood too. If it's suspect, see if you can't find an alternative fuel source. I use biobricks almost exclusively in my stove. They're basically little 2 pound blocks of essentially sawdust compressed by nothing but pressure. Not to be confused with grocery store firelogs, which are bad mojo for stoves. They're very dry and burn like the dickens. If you have a Tractor Supply nearby, they carry a similar wood product - forget the name, but you'll know em when you see 'em.

Another thing you can try is a few bundles of "grocery store" wood - you know, those 5 dollar bundles of splits that are out front sometimes? Those are typically nicely seasoned too.

If you don't have visible flame and are smoldering, you are either choked back too much or the wood isn't dry enough. I'm starting to guess it's the latter.