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OAK - My dealers perspective.

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by gerryger, Oct 24, 2011.

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  1. gerryger

    gerryger Member

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    Yes, this is the way the OAK is to be installed on the Santa Fe (see installation diagram) and why use the OAK if the cold air is just going to get sucked out by the convection blower for this particular model. Bad design.

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  2. checkthisout

    checkthisout Feeling the Heat

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    On the lowest damper setting, most stoves pull all their air from inside the house.

    Higher inlet air temperatures increase combustion efficiency.

    How about that? You learned two new things today.
  3. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Maybe true for some of the older designs, But the newer line ups are showing up with connections straight to the stove body. Every new Enviro(Sherwood industries) that has been released is that way. Harmans look to be that way as well. Might want to change the "most" word to "some".

    To believe the "Higher inlet air temperatures" theory? I would need to see some examples if you could pass them on?

    Seeing these stoves are air pumps, I still don't want the air to be sucked from outside where my weakest leaks would be(front door in my case). I think the theory of least path of resistance applies here as well. I'll keep my air pump connected to the least path(OAK). Once I see some good examples of "Higher inlet air temperatures" I may opt to preheat it first.

    My stove runs dandy with my set up and I have no frozen front door. Hard to change something thats working. But I'll keep an open mind. Learn something new everyday.
  4. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    That nice dark air channel goes where?

    I'll agree with imacman that the Quads leave a lot to be desired in some areas but they actually want you to pay good money for that collection of pieces so as for a design mess up I'm not so sure I'd call it that.
  5. iron stove

    iron stove Minister of Fire

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    What does a average OAK cost ? Never had one, but just installed my P-43, and maybe ill add one to increase efficency.
  6. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Depends upon how long of a run and where you buy the parts. If I can find the paper I'll tell you what mine costs, it wasn't much. It will take some time for me to dig it out of the pile.

    ETA: OK, found it, $20.00 .
  7. iron stove

    iron stove Minister of Fire

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    Only $20 :) Thats cheap.
  8. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    It is a simple one just a 10' length of aluminum tubing, a pass through and cap.

    A clamp and some silicone and away you go.

    Now some folks like the fancy ones and some folks figure hey it just something to run air through keep it simple.

    I love keeping it simple, that way even a cave bear can work with it, now I'll go back to other things.
  9. sinnian

    sinnian Minister of Fire

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    According to....................
  10. smoke show

    smoke show Guest

    Jim????

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  11. checkthisout

    checkthisout Feeling the Heat

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    I didn't think anyone would dispute this.

    Why do you suppose a car engine has better combustion efficiency as it warms up?

    Why do you suppose EPA wood stoves heat the incoming air?

    Ad Nauseum.
  12. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Look at all the newer cars. Don't they all have cold air intakes? Mine does.
  13. checkthisout

    checkthisout Feeling the Heat

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    As I stated, Kudos to Harman for pulling 100% outside air.

    I agree that the OAK is beneficial but it's also beneficial to have warmer air going into the stove for better combustion efficiency.

    If you get this by salvaging waste heat from the venting system then you are going to see a net gain in the efficiency of the stove.

    Having to heat cold combustion air takes the same amount of energy as sucking air out of the house and replacing it with colder air. There are obvious benefits to doing it through the OAK to eliminate drafts that you would feel but as far as the net heat output at the stove they are a wash.
  14. checkthisout

    checkthisout Feeling the Heat

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    Does your stove convert heat energy to mechanical energy?

    Your car has lower emissions after the engine is warmed up. Why?
  15. doghouse

    doghouse Member

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    I didn't think anyone would dispute this.

    Why do you suppose a car engine has better combustion efficiency as it warms up?

    Why do you suppose EPA wood stoves heat the incoming air?

    Ad Nauseum.[/quote]

    The 'warm up' part has to do with the fluids that function in and around the engine block as well as certain sensors that monitor engine performance .
  16. checkthisout

    checkthisout Feeling the Heat

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    What about engines that are air cooled and carbureted?

    Do they not produce higher emissions when cold and have lower combustion efficiency thus requiring you to enrich the mixture by closing the choke or using a primer?
  17. doghouse

    doghouse Member

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    The platinum in the catalytic converter in your car must get upto temp before it starts to break down the pollutants in a cars exhaust
  18. RiddleMasterMorgon

    RiddleMasterMorgon Member

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    We forgot to argue a very important aspect of cold air - humidity ! And it certainly is the water (humidity) in it that will cause any issue, no ? It takes a ton more enegry to evaporate/heat up water than to heat up air, so the issue is not cold air, th eissue is that cold air is usually more humid than warm one - and although cold air is denser than warm air, I doubt the O2 increase beats the extra energy needed to get rid of the moisture. Since humidity changes during the 24h of the day, you should see an efficiency cycle in your stove, but of course thats averaged out in the manufacturers BTU numbers.

    As for why would the manufacturers add an AOK option in their stove.......well, well, well - because adding an AOK option for a couple of occasions where you absolutly need one (bad draft) and loosing such sales, versus adding a peice of tubing in all systems leaving the dock might actually be cheaper...there is some business sense to adding them even without the need of an OAK in all cases...thats not an argument really.

    As for why would a dealer deliberately not make the money for an AOK install.....hmmmm, my AOK was about 100 USD during initial installation and I paid it because it was nothing compared to the overall cost. Turning that argument around, the dealer basically looses nothing if he does not install the AOK, but can deal you this nice story of how much he cares for you and does not want to sell you stuff you dont need and so on....so basically its 50 USD for the marketing devision and trust building measures.

    Now, if you assume that an OAK is only necessary/useful/absolute have to in say half the cases, manufacturers are happy with the arrangement, dealers are and if the customer feels better having the option than by all means...win-win

    Its like ordering a coffe at starbucks, they give you so many options so you feel in charge and have plenty of choices...but at the end of the day you just had a coffe with milk.

    By the way I have an AOK and since I have no way of checking (other than doing what J and few others did), I am happy with it since I dont know the difference. I kind of doubt science will proof this one either way.
  19. staplebox

    staplebox Member

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    While we're all here could I get some other advice?

    Regular or synthetic oil for my car?

    What is the best caliber handgun round for personal protection?

    Does Bud Lite taste great or is it less filling?
  20. checkthisout

    checkthisout Feeling the Heat

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    My pellet stove made me a better lover.
  21. PJPellet

    PJPellet Minister of Fire

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    Regular
    .45
    Both

    On another note, if you want an OAK, get one.
    If you don't want an OAK, don't get one. :)
  22. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Magnesium flare gun and flares, hit'em and they cook.

    Bud Lite you can have.

    Synthetic oil.
  23. gerryger

    gerryger Member

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    I stand corrected. The image below is the correct way to bring an OAK into the Santa Fe. My previous image (from a downloaded Santa Fe manual off the web) must of been for a previous model of the Santa Fe. I feel a lot better that it is directly connected to the combustion chamber. A design improvement by Quad!! Now my decision for an OAK will be easier because of this. The older method just didn't make any sense.

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  24. doghouse

    doghouse Member

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    I was going to ask for proof on this fact, however, . .
  25. St_Earl

    St_Earl Minister of Fire

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    car engines need to warm up for all tolerances to come to spec. rings, valves etc.... and indeed the burn is a different thing in each case.

    i'm nowhere near an engineer. but it seems like a waste of time to compare such different systems for such a specific question.
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