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  1. Hiram Maxim

    Hiram Maxim Minister of Fire

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    +1 & I believe its worth it.....my $.02

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  2. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    I guess also...than how many stoves have the capability to except OAK's and why or why not some manufactor's don't put them on there. To me there's still an issue with intake if you have to have the kit. If a stove rely's on such a small amount of intake...or exhaust and a fan comes on and puts the fire out???
  3. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    That's because the fan coming on may have changed the draft on the stove, not the amount of oxygen in the room. The flue is the engine of the stove. If it is not pulling strongly enough the fire will be weaker. The fire won't necessarily go out, but there may be poor secondary burning and when the door is opened, smoke spillage.
  4. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    There in lies my point...I'm sure a few of you have had different stoves thruout the years....same flue. I just recently replaced my PE with a Jotul. Guess what...the Jotul doesn't run away like the PE.(higher temps) So...the stoves different. My house didn't change...my flue didn't change...so it had to be intake(or the exhaust) on the stove. If a person were to fix that...which maybe we legally can't...than I don't think a person has to mess with an OAK?
  5. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Not at all. The Oslo and the Spectrum have very different shaped fireboxes, primary and secondary air delivery systems and manifolds. And the F500 is not a jacketed convective stove. They are very different animals. This has nothing to do with OAKs.

    and burning at 90F is not an indicator of winter performance. ;)
    neumsky likes this.
  6. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    There is an instrument to measure/find house drafts. Its called a blower door.
  7. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    While it may be warmer there in winter months, it is not really cheaper. Oregon has far cheaper electric rates than California does (8-12 cents a KWhr PGE here vs 13-29 cents a KWhr for PG&E there). If you are hooked up for it, NG is about the same in both places now, but the service fees and taxes are more there. Also when I lived in the SFbay area and NG was deregulated, my NG heating bills were in the hundreds per month! It was a disaster. Comparing burning wood in Ukiah (not far north of Santa Rosa) and here (just west of Mt Hood), I burn about the same (3-4 cords a year). Cord of firewood here is about $200 vs $300 there, and there is no sales tax here. Also houses here are far more insulated than thay are in CA.

    Of course I live on the west side of the Cascades from you for making these comparisons, and it is warner here in winter... but it is also a lot wetter.
  8. Redbear86

    Redbear86 Member

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    There was a story of a family in Salt lake last winter had all the family over x-mas, super tight house with lots of people + cold snap and wood stove, anyways luckily neighbor stoped by to find the family asleep at the diner table, fire marshall said all the CO2 detectors worked but it was O2 depletion, my closest neighbour is over a mile away, dont think ill count on him strolling by.
  9. fossil

    fossil Accidental Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, I understand all that. I was born in Oakland and grew up in the East Bay Area. I've been to Santa Rosa many times. And yes, I know that what you're saying about utility costs is quite true. Don't make too much out of my off-hand comment.
  10. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    Can I ask a stupid And probably late question? On an average...how much are these OAK's??
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    It depends on the stove. Some have a special adapter that sells for $50-60, but others take a standard 3" sheetmetal take-off + an elbow. Usually the whole installation will fall under $100-120.
  12. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    Do you have one begreen?
  13. nate379

    nate379 Guest

    I wouldn't be able to run the stove without having a window open if I didn't have an OAK on it. Even still if the clothes dryer is going and a bathroom fan is on I have to open a window a crack if I want to feed wood into the stove.

    If the dryer is running it's hard to open the front door because it puts the house in a bit of vacuum.
  14. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Kits are sold for the average DIY'er for under $50. Comes with everything needed (unless there is an adapter as BG stated)

    For Englander Pellet stoves (ALL) it's mandatory. Not recommended. For proper installations.
  15. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    Typically they are sold than by the manufactorers of the stove or are they aftermarket?
  16. Ziprich

    Ziprich Member

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    I ran my stove all last winter, and it worked great. But i would love to put a OAK in if it would work better. But i understand now that its not a easy yes or no. I feel that i am going to put one in because it would be pretty easy to do in my setup. All i have to do is drill through a block wall and im done. Then if i dont like it i guess im out a little money. Thanks everybody for the input.
  17. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    Ziprich...might be important for you.


    While it sounds like you'd rather install an OAK (outside air kit) instead of looking into installing a liner, take a read here to see what a difference the proper sized liner makes:http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/72593/

    That link is only one of many, many posts by persons who saw the light and installed a properly sized liner. I'm sure this is so much more applicable than just liners.
  18. Ziprich

    Ziprich Member

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    I have a 6" double insulated s/s pipe.
  19. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    For my 30-NC stove, OAKs are $72.70 from Englander. However, you can make your own with 3" metal tubing and some large metal hose clamps and metal wall plates for about $35.
  20. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    Yes... ;)

    Note that you need a stove that is designed for an OAK to run one (or re-design one if they are not?). All HUD stoves approved for mobile home use will be OAK ready. I designed an OAK myself with 3 inch AL vent tubing, some clamps, and some screening. It runs from the stove to the floor and under the house to the side where there is a 3 inch hole cut into the skirting. I put a screen on the entry end as well.
  21. neumsky

    neumsky Minister of Fire

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    Thanx for the info...wasn't there a good video or pic's with a description or explanation how they did it?
  22. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    highbeam posted some nice pics of his OAK setup. They should show up in a search.
  23. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    Highbeam's OAK setup: http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/26567/

    Pretty simple, but that is all you really need. 3" flexi metal AL tubing and hose clamps. He used an ABS fitting on the end to keep the end mount from crushing the AL tubing and used an ABS T with 2 ends so it can draw enough air with the screen. With that setup I would have used a finer screen, but it is raised off the ground and under the house and so not likely to get much crawling in there. My old OAK on my Earth Stove had finer sceening (1/4 inch) and it got pretty caked up with cob webs and dust. Having the T on the end is a good idea and I will add a 3" PVC or ABS T on the end of my new OAK to add more area for the tubing to draw its full potential and allow for some dust clogging.
  24. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    Ziprich I am glad that it works well for you! I used to own one and it was hell getting it to burn right until we put the oak in. In your case I wouldn't bother with an oak the tl300 downdraft is way to easy to screw up and can become a nightmere and money hole to get right. If it works I would leave it be!

    Pete
  25. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    I imagine they meant CO detectors (carbon monoxide) were working. Otherwise, it would sound more like CO poisoning. If it really is O2 depletion, that's pretty severe. It typically would take less than 15% O2 to cause that kind of symptom at rest (a lot of variables there) [OSHA]. And that's about where the fire would go out also. Mild symptoms can actually start at 19.5% which OSHA considers to be oxygen deficient. It may also have been increased CO2 levels with that many people in a small, tight house. Still, a good reason for OAK.

    Personally, I will do the OAK thing. There are actually two good reasons for OAK. The first is the safety issue as illustrated above. The second is just comfort from drafts. The safety issue is important for the tight house (the reason why it's required for mobiles). The comfort issue is for both. To me either house is a candidate for different reasons. If your house is drafty, then all the more reason to bring the air in from outside separately.

    I haven't heard a specific reason against it, other than cost or installation difficulties (the idea that cold air compromises the fire is nonsense as pointed out by someone else). Kits are only non-combustible ducts and fittings. I don't know why it has to be large diameter duct, either. 50 CFM is not much flow rate.
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