Off Grid Cabin Renovation - Texas Hill Country

[haber bosch]

Hello all, I've been a lurker but would appreciate some advice from any who would give it.

I'm in the process of renovating an off grid cabin. its stick built with T-111 siding, no insulation, ceiling or paneling, and is 20' x 30' open floor plan. It sits several feet off the ground on cement piers and I'm pulling out the windows in the photos and installing tall windows to catch the breeze (as most of the year heat and humidity are bigger factors).

However for the winter months, I am looking for a wood-fire heating solution and trying to decide between framing out a mantel with cement board finish and doing a fireplace insert, or just putting in a wood stove (thinking about something like the Woodstock Soapstone Survival Hybrid, which i think is 27,000 btus/hr, but also see people talking about the Jotul 602 and other smallish stoves, and really dont know how much stove I need). I do have a propane heater that runs off bbq cans that worked great when the cabin had insulation and ceiling, etc., but not sure how well it will work with the open floorplan, uninsulated open-rafter situation, and really I want to have the pleasure of the sight and sound of wood fire.

This is a recreational property and is only used a few days a month, but I do have small kids and need to be able to keep it reasonably warm in the winter, especially at night. Thus fuel efficiency and cost is not as important to me as effectiveness and really safety. II imagine I could just add a second propane heater and call it a day - but would prefer to find a safe way to get a wood fire in this kind of structure that would effectively heat it during in temps in the 30-40 degree low range (maybe a little frost here and there)?

Some pics are attached - thanks in advance to anyone who has some good advice for what to do in southern, humid places that get some cold now and then. I really want to enjoy it without worrying about burning it down.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

It's going to be hard to size a stove for your place. The hard part is the lack of insulation and air sealing. As soon as you put it in, the stove needs will change. Installing a stove that'll heat it well now will cook you later. Installing a stove sized well for later will barely do anything now. On top of that, as you will walking into a cold cabin, oversizing the stove is appropriate.

I recommend putting wood up now to dry. It takes a while. Keep it well away from the cabin. Stick with propane for now. Pay attention to your insulation.

 

[bholler]

By the way you cannot just frame out a mantle with cement board and install an insert. An insert needs a masonry fireplace and chimney that is built up to code.

 

[BrianVA]

Hello all, I've been a lurker but would appreciate some advice from any who would give it.

I'm in the process of renovating an off grid cabin. its stick built with T-111 siding, no insulation, ceiling or paneling, and is 20' x 30' open floor plan. It sits several feet off the ground on cement piers and I'm pulling out the windows in the photos and installing tall windows to catch the breeze (as most of the year heat and humidity are bigger factors).

However for the winter months, I am looking for a wood-fire heating solution and trying to decide between framing out a mantel with cement board finish and doing a fireplace insert, or just putting in a wood stove (thinking about something like the Woodstock Soapstone Survival Hybrid, which i think is 27,000 btus/hr, but also see people talking about the Jotul 602 and other smallish stoves, and really dont know how much stove I need). I do have a propane heater that runs off bbq cans that worked great when the cabin had insulation and ceiling, etc., but not sure how well it will work with the open floorplan, uninsulated open-rafter situation, and really I want to have the pleasure of the sight and sound of wood fire.

This is a recreational property and is only used a few days a month, but I do have small kids and need to be able to keep it reasonably warm in the winter, especially at night. Thus fuel efficiency and cost is not as important to me as effectiveness and really safety. II imagine I could just add a second propane heater and call it a day - but would prefer to find a safe way to get a wood fire in this kind of structure that would effectively heat it during in temps in the 30-40 degree low range (maybe a little frost here and there)?

Some pics are attached - thanks in advance to anyone who has some good advice for what to do in southern, humid places that get some cold now and then. I really want to enjoy it without worrying about burning it down.

View attachment 291273 View attachment 291274 View attachment 291275 View attachment 291276

As stated above you can't install an insert in that manner, and you wouldn't want to. If you want a traditional looking fireplace without the expense of a full masonry chimney, look at zero clearance high efficiency fireplaces. Such as fireplace xtrordinair. You can design the space around it and even run ducts off the top of the firebox to distribute the heat more effectively.

 

[haber bosch]

By the way you cannot just frame out a mantle with cement board and install an insert. An insert needs a masonry fireplace and chimney that is built up to code.

I think I meant to say a prefab fireplace (the ones that come with framing directions - thanks for catching that

 

[BrianVA]

For an off grid heater I would go with a free standing wood stove. Inserts and ZC fireplaces rely on blowers to extract and circulate heat. A free standing unit will be more effective as a radiant heater with no need for electricity. Plus, on average, a woodstove will be less expensive to buy and cheaper and easier to install.

 

[bholler]

I think I meant to say a prefab fireplace (the ones that come with framing directions - thanks for catching that

Ok that would certainly be an option. But it will cost considerably more than a freestanding stove.

 

[haber bosch]

It's going to be hard to size a stove for your place. The hard part is the lack of insulation and air sealing. As soon as you put it in, the stove needs will change. Installing a stove that'll heat it well now will cook you later. Installing a stove sized well for later will barely do anything now. On top of that, as you will walking into a cold cabin, oversizing the stove is appropriate.

I recommend putting wood up now to dry. It takes a while. Keep it well away from the cabin. Stick with propane for now. Pay attention to your insulation.

I assume it will only get used during winter months - is that what you mean by "installing a stove that'll heat well now will cook you later"?

Or do you mean the size of stove that will get the cabin warmed up will be too hot once its warmed up?

 

[haber bosch]

For an off grid heater I would go with a free standing wood stove. Inserts and ZC fireplaces rely on blowers to extract and circulate heat. A free standing unit will be more effective as a radiant heater with no need for electricity. Plus, on average, a woodstove will be less expensive to buy and cheaper and easier to install.

Thank you for this advice, this makes sense to me. I see Tractor Supply has a few US Stove's with viewing window that say "2000 sf" - do you think this is a good option, or do I need to be looking at better made brands? Wood stove retailers are limited down here, so any "ship to store" option is helpful as I have to haul it a ways off grid.

thx

 

[BrianVA]

Thank you for this advice, this makes sense to me. I see Tractor Supply has a few US Stove's with viewing window that say "2000 sf" - do you think this is a good option, or do I need to be looking at better made brands? Wood stove retailers are limited down here, so any "ship to store" option is helpful as I have to haul it a ways off grid.

thx

I can't comment on the quality of US Stove. Maybe others can. From reading on this forum it seems like Englander makes a good value model stove.

I would get something with a big firebox. 2.0 cu ft is probably not enough to heat overnight with no insulation. To me, bigger is better. You can make small fires in a big stove, but you can't make big fires in a small stove. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I assume it will only get used during winter months - is that what you mean by "installing a stove that'll heat well now will cook you later"?

Or do you mean the size of stove that will get the cabin warmed up will be too hot once its warmed up?

If you need xxxxx btu/hr to heat your place now, without insulation, you may only need xx btu/hr once it's finished off. Itll be like an oven in there if you buy a stove thats way to big. Woodstoves don't turn off like a furnace. They run until the fuel is spent. Even with all of the windows open, it still might be unbearably hot.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I have a number of thoughts about heating with wood in Texas Hill Country and have some experience with a few retailers. One question I have is whether you plan to hire a professional for install or whether you plan to do the work yourself. There is a 22 % tax credit (I think it’s gone down from 26% this year, but I may be wrong) available on certain high efficiency stoves, and the tax credit applies to venting (can be quite expensive) and install costs as well. I’m inclined to recommend a larger Blaze King stove like the Princess or a 30 series because they have a thermostatic control. The larger firebox would allow for quicker heating when bringing the cabin up to temperature, but the thermostat would allow you to turn down the stove to simmer the wood at low output to maintain it. Blaze King stoves are expensive, but the tax credit would help.

Woodstock is also a great brand, and I believe has the tax credit available as well. I’d be inclined to look a little bigger than the Survival, perhaps the Absolute Steel. You can always build a smaller fire in a bigger box but not the other way around. It takes a lot of BTUs at first to warm up a cold space but far fewer to maintain it. That’s why I was inclining toward Blaze King with the bimetallic thermostatic control. (Note: I don’t have personal experience with a Blaze King stove. I only have my opinions based on reading on this forum over the years. I do, however, have experience with the crazy winter weather we have in Texas Hill Country, which is why I’m inclined toward recommending thermostatic control.)

You said that you are installing bigger windows to allow for more airflow in the summers. What are your plans for future insulation?

Edited to add: It looks like you have some wood already in piles. Get that up off the ground on pallets or a simple rack built out of cinderblocks and landscape timbers (you can look in the woodshed part of the forum for ideas). With our heat in the summer, it should dry out quite quickly. We burn cedar and oak mostly, and it usually dries in one summer. That’s an unusual experience for most burners on this forum, but we are in a drier, hotter climate than most as well. It is best to get the wood off the ground and stacked neatly, though, so that you’re not trapping moisture inside it. You want it to have good airflow. It’s good to have an inexpensive moisture meter to check the wood if you’re first learning. (I’ve been doing this for a while and still like to check wood to make sure it’s dry enough. I still find myself being surprised at how dry some of my wood is because I’m more used to my native Virginia than to my newer home in Texas.)

 

[begreen]

Invest in insulation and sealing the building. It's going to make the space much more habitable, easier to heat and provide protection against strong winds. It will also make it more comfortable in summer.

 

[haber bosch]

I have a number of thoughts about heating with wood in Texas Hill Country and have some experience with a few retailers. One question I have is whether you plan to hire a professional for install or whether you plan to do the work yourself. There is a 22 % tax credit (I think it’s gone down from 26% this year, but I may be wrong) available on certain high efficiency stoves, and the tax credit applies to venting (can be quite expensive) and install costs as well. I’m inclined to recommend a larger Blaze King stove like the Princess or a 30 series because they have a thermostatic control. The larger firebox would allow for quicker heating when bringing the cabin up to temperature, but the thermostat would allow you to turn down the stove to simmer the wood at low output to maintain it. Blaze King stoves are expensive, but the tax credit would help.

Woodstock is also a great brand, and I believe has the tax credit available as well. I’d be inclined to look a little bigger than the Survival, perhaps the Absolute Steel. You can always build a smaller fire in a bigger box but not the other way around. It takes a lot of BTUs at first to warm up a cold space but far fewer to maintain it. That’s why I was inclining toward Blaze King with the bimetallic thermostatic control. (Note: I don’t have personal experience with a Blaze King stove. I only have my opinions based on reading on this forum over the years. I do, however, have experience with the crazy winter weather we have in Texas Hill Country, which is why I’m inclined toward recommending thermostatic control.)

You said that you are installing bigger windows to allow for more airflow in the summers. What are your plans for future insulation?

Edited to add: It looks like you have some wood already in piles. Get that up off the ground on pallets or a simple rack built out of cinderblocks and landscape timbers (you can look in the woodshed part of the forum for ideas). With our heat in the summer, it should dry out quite quickly. We burn cedar and oak mostly, and it usually dries in one summer. That’s an unusual experience for most burners on this forum, but we are in a drier, hotter climate than most as well. It is best to get the wood off the ground and stacked neatly, though, so that you’re not trapping moisture inside it. You want it to have good airflow. It’s good to have an inexpensive moisture meter to check the wood if you’re first learning. (I’ve been doing this for a while and still like to check wood to make sure it’s dry enough. I still find myself being surprised at how dry some of my wood is because I’m more used to my native Virginia than to my newer home in Texas.)

do the BK thermostats required electricity? This is a totally off grid cabin miles from the power lines. Thanks for the good advice on getting the wood off ground. I have endless piles of old growth cedar heartwood that is a few years down now that I will be cutting down now.

 

[haber bosch]

Invest in insulation and sealing the building. It's going to make the space much more habitable, easier to heat and provide protection against strong winds. It will also make it more comfortable in summer.

Give the pressure of innumerable creepy crawlies down here (see photo), and since I only spend a few nights a month here, I an wanting everything to be open and visible rather than having the crawl spaces that comes with insulation and wall paneling/drywall. Also, there is no AC or electricity here so I'm setting it up to have multiple screen doors on every wall with long overhangs for the breeze, rather than trying to chink everything up and insulate like I would in town when I am on-grid and looking for efficiency. Humidity and heat are so high, that, besides the pest load, drywall, paneling, plywood, etc. just get warped and destroyed if its stuffy. That's my going theory at least, looking at how the past owner set it up and how wrecked it was.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Spray foam seals crawlies and insulates well. It can be purchased in 20lb tanks.

 

[haber bosch]

Spray foam seals crawlies and insulates well. It can be purchased in 20lb tanks.

I believe it, but I'm stuck with the problem of how to lower the humidity if the space was sealed like that. Like how would it do during a NY summer, if summer lasted 5 months or so?

 

[stoveliker]

The BK stoves do not require electricity (unless you add a fan package, but I think you won't need that). The thermostat is a simple bimetal coil.

I would look at spray foam; it even keeps small stuff (tick-size) out and it helps a lot with (or against!) heating.

 

[BrianVA]

Invest in insulation and sealing the building. It's going to make the space much more habitable, easier to heat and provide protection against strong winds. It will also make it more comfortable in summer.

Honest question here, but wouldn't insulation work against you in the summer if you don't have AC? The house would pick heat during the day and hold the heat throughout the majority of the night, rather than cooling off (when you want it cool for sleep). I'm not disagreeing, just asking.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

do the BK thermostats required electricity? This is a totally off grid cabin miles from the power lines. Thanks for the good advice on getting the wood off ground. I have endless piles of old growth cedar heartwood that is a few years down now that I will be cutting down now.

We find that cedar works great in our stove, and I bet it would do well in a BK as they are designed and built in the lands of softwoods.

How do you plan to cook while you’re there? A grill?

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Give the pressure of innumerable creepy crawlies down here (see photo), and since I only spend a few nights a month here, I an wanting everything to be open and visible rather than having the crawl spaces that comes with insulation and wall paneling/drywall. Also, there is no AC or electricity here so I'm setting it up to have multiple screen doors on every wall with long overhangs for the breeze, rather than trying to chink everything up and insulate like I would in town when I am on-grid and looking for efficiency. Humidity and heat are so high, that, besides the pest load, drywall, paneling, plywood, etc. just get warped and destroyed if its stuffy. That's my going theory at least, looking at how the past owner set it up and how wrecked it was.

View attachment 291303

Wow. I can’t imagine living in Texas without insulation, but I understand that you won’t be controlling the climate while you’re away since you’re going to be off-grid. I suppose it’s a bit like camping rather than residing. What about at least a radiant barrier under your roof?

The others on this forum can give you better advice about handling moisture in a well-sealed space, but I will say that humidity in our part of Texas Hill Country (a little northwest of San Antonio) is much lower than where we moved from in Virginia. We air condition almost all summer in our home, though, but I do wonder if humidity would really build up all that much in an unoccupied space. It’s people breathing and bathing and cooking that adds a lot of moisture to a sealed space, and while you’re there you can open it up, of course.

What kind of snake is that?

 

[haber bosch]

We find that cedar works great in our stove, and I bet it would do well in a BK as they are designed and built in the lands of softwoods.

How do you plan to cook while you’re there? A grill?

last few years I've cooked outdoors either over bonfire (when its cool and wet outside), charcoal grill (during dry season burn bans), or propane stove (convenient and indoors). In the winter if I am running the wood stove I hope to cook on cast iron on the stove top. Much of the year I guess the stove will be more or less a countertop.

 

[bholler]

Thank you for this advice, this makes sense to me. I see Tractor Supply has a few US Stove's with viewing window that say "2000 sf" - do you think this is a good option, or do I need to be looking at better made brands? Wood stove retailers are limited down here, so any "ship to store" option is helpful as I have to haul it a ways off grid.

thx

US stove co sells cheap Asian imported crap. For good budget stoves look at New England stove works or drolet

 

[haber bosch]

Wow. I can’t imagine living in Texas without insulation, but I understand that you won’t be controlling the climate while you’re away since you’re going to be off-grid. I suppose it’s a bit like camping rather than residing. What about at least a radiant barrier under your roof?

The others on this forum can give you better advice about handling moisture in a well-sealed space, but I will say that humidity in our part of Texas Hill Country (a little northwest of San Antonio) is much lower than where we moved from in Virginia. We air condition almost all summer in our home, though, but I do wonder if humidity would really build up all that much in an unoccupied space. It’s people breathing and bathing and cooking that adds a lot of moisture to a sealed space, and while you’re there you can open it up, of course.

What kind of snake is that?

Yep - more like camping. During shoulder months and summer months we spend the afternoons at the river, swimming etc. During spring and fall can usually sleep inside with windows open (i'min the process of replacing all windows with full height screen windows). During hot months sleep on the (recently demolished) porch in the breeze and watch the scorpions work the night shift - cant really stay inside even with windows open during summer. But working on building a covered screen porch with wide overhangs. Its really just camping and not a residence.

My experience with insulation (besides it being a nesting place for all manner of things), is that it had some effect of holding the cool of the morning into the afternoon, but as you can imagine it cant fight the almighty sun, and then served to keep it blazing hot into the evening. Its easier to warm up than to cool down down here for much of the year.

idk about the snake, would like to though.

 

[ManitobaSky]

Englander 32 NC or one of the large drolet/century stoves aka the HT 3000, Austral, FW3500, FW3200. Would be my choice, you are going to need a lot of heat with no insulation, no air sealing and a metal roof.

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