Oil Prices Now

[SpaceBus]

I was with you guys until these last two posts. If it were actually less expensive, it would already be the way it's done. The purchase decision of 100 million primary consumers in this country alone wouldn't allow for anything else.

You can punch some idealistic holes in Capitalism, I'll admit it ain't perfect. But it is the ultimate cost optimizer.

Cost in money, not holistic cost. The environmental damage, among other things, just isn't factored into current capitalist practices.

 

[EbS-P]

Cost in money, not holistic cost. The environmental damage, among other things, just isn't factored into current capitalist practices.

We need to account for the environmental damage in the cost. Call it a 1–5% national sales tax no exceptions. Your every person gets a refundable tax credit for 750-3000$.

 

[Rusty18]

pickup trucks don't need to be used as commuter cars, etc.

the crew cab diesels are being replaced by 20 year old Malibu’s in the work parking lot. The guys that paid 70k for a truck now can’t afford to put fuel in them.

 

[ABMax24]

the crew cab diesels are being replaced by 20 year old Malibu’s in the work parking lot. The guys that paid 70k for a truck now can’t afford to put fuel in them.

Definitely not the case here, you can buy almost any economy car right off the dealer lot, but guys are lining up to wait 8 months and pay $100k for a new diesel 1 ton. The used market is nuts too, 4 year old trucks with 100,000km are going for about the same as they were new.

I have no interest in getting rid of my truck either, by time I pay the insurance and registration on a commuter car it's negated the savings in fuel, but I'm only 15 minutes from work.

 

[Rusty18]

Yea, used trucks with 50k miles on them are selling $2k over new price because you can buy them now. Or at least that’s been the case for the last year and a half. I’m gonna say over the last 2 weeks new trucks have started to appear on dealer lots around town, no more bidding wars when the car hauler comes in.

I have an 18 mile one way trip to work, there are only about 3 guys who live closer than me, some drive over an hour one way (these are good two or 4 lane roads not red light stop and go). Driving the outback vs the 04 2500hd saves me enough in fuel to pay its own “legal fees” plus I’m putting miles on a lot cheaper vehicle and saving the truck for doing truck stuff. Plus the Subaru is more comfortable/more leg room... plus plus if I have a few vehicles laying around chances are at least one of them will start and get me to work in the morning.

You all have me looking hard at the rav 4 phev’s though. I could very likely make it to work and back on electric only!

 

[SpaceBus]

You know, in the Soviet union used cars were more expensive than new because you didn't have to wait...

 

[Ashful]

You know, in the Soviet union used cars were more expensive than new because you didn't have to wait...

I can't speak for the USSR, but that was definitely the case in East Germany. I used to work there, and I remember they'd pay up to double for a 15 year old car, versus a new one, simply because you could actually get the used one before you retired.

I think the wait time for a new car was up to 17 years after receipt of order (ARO), in the final years of the union. And what would you get for all that waiting? A car with a body made of compressed cotton, and a 2-stroke engine that made less horsepower than your riding mower. You need to be ignorant of these details to be a fan of socialism.

 

[johneh]

I have a friend in Halifax that bought up Ladas and fixed them, a little paint
then parked them on the docks with a for sale sign. The first Russian ship
in port bought the car for whatever the asking price was. He made a pretty
good living doing that until The USSR fell apart

 

[SpaceBus]

I can't speak for the USSR, but that was definitely the case in East Germany. I used to work there, and I remember they'd pay up to double for a 15 year old car, versus a new one, simply because you could actually get the used one before you retired.

I think the wait time for a new car was up to 17 years after receipt of order (ARO), in the final years of the union. And what would you get for all that waiting? A car with a body made of compressed cotton, and a 2-stroke engine that made less horsepower than your riding mower. You need to be ignorant of these details to be a fan of socialism.

HAHAHAHAHA! As if the Soviet Union and socialism are the same thing. Have you read nothing about Joseph Stalin? We'll never know if socialism could have worked in the USSR, because that died with Lenin, who may also have been just as bad as Stalin. My comparison was to show what happens when poor economic choices are made.

This is weird to think about, but the infrastructure of the US and the USSR is very similar, with obviously the US having a much more successful version. Vast swathes of uninhabited landscape, entire regions dedicated to farming, the majority of tech, manufacturing, banking, etc. are all centralized, and on and on. Now, the US had a big advantage after WWII that the Soviets didn't have, number one being their territory wasn't ravaged by war and over 20 million casualties. The USSR could have actually worked out if the Nazis hadn't run roughshod over Eastern Europe and murdered everyone they came across.

However, the US isn't doing that much better. Look at all of the run down, uninhabited boom towns across rural America. Have you been to some of the old mill towns in the South East? You don't see bread lines, but instead lines of people at grocery stores paying with welfare assistance with no meaningful jobs in the region and no way out. You have even mentioned the "Great Resignation" in another thread, so surely you must see the few parallels with the USSR.

I would also suggest that this country is pretty communist already, albeit with a lot of corporate stewardship. Instead of the people owning the means of production, we give our tax money to corporations so they can take more of our labor. If our taxes an subsidize oil companies, why can't we set how much profit they can make? Why do CEO's and other executives get to reap the benefits of corporate welfare while flying in private jets? The laws demand that a citizen be in abject poverty to qualify for assistance, which is taken away if they end up making "too much" to qualify for assistance.

Socialism for the rich, communism for the poor.

 

[Ashful]

HAHAHAHAHA! As if the Soviet Union and socialism are the same thing. Have you read nothing about Joseph Stalin? We'll never know if socialism could have worked in the USSR, because that died with Lenin, who may also have been just as bad as Stalin. My comparison was to show what happens when poor economic choices are made.

This is weird to think about, but the infrastructure of the US and the USSR is very similar, with obviously the US having a much more successful version. Vast swathes of uninhabited landscape, entire regions dedicated to farming, the majority of tech, manufacturing, banking, etc. are all centralized, and on and on. Now, the US had a big advantage after WWII that the Soviets didn't have, number one being their territory wasn't ravaged by war and over 20 million casualties. The USSR could have actually worked out if the Nazis hadn't run roughshod over Eastern Europe and murdered everyone they came across.

However, the US isn't doing that much better. Look at all of the run down, uninhabited boom towns across rural America. Have you been to some of the old mill towns in the South East? You don't see bread lines, but instead lines of people at grocery stores paying with welfare assistance with no meaningful jobs in the region and no way out. You have even mentioned the "Great Resignation" in another thread, so surely you must see the few parallels with the USSR.

I would also suggest that this country is pretty communist already, albeit with a lot of corporate stewardship. Instead of the people owning the means of production, we give our tax money to corporations so they can take more of our labor. If our taxes an subsidize oil companies, why can't we set how much profit they can make? Why do CEO's and other executives get to reap the benefits of corporate welfare while flying in private jets? The laws demand that a citizen be in abject poverty to qualify for assistance, which is taken away if they end up making "too much" to qualify for assistance.

Socialism for the rich, communism for the poor.

I'm not going to get into a political debate with you on the merits of socialism or communism. Your attempt to draw any similarities between our economy and the prior USSR shows such a complete lack of understanding of reality and history that it's not even worth getting into it with you.

 

[SpaceBus]

I'm not going to get into a political debate with you on the merits of socialism or communism. Your attempt to draw any similarities between our economy and the prior USSR shows such a complete lack of understanding of reality and history that it's not even worth getting into it with you.

I don't think I am the one with a complete lack of understanding. I studied/continue to study Russian/Soviet history, language, and politics for several years. People are literally paying more for used cars because new cars are unavailable. The reasons are even the same, lack of materials due to economic policies. Prices are up, money doesn't go as far, corporations are flush with cash, and we are looking at the effects of subsidizing corporate profits at the expense of infrastructure, real jobs, and protecting taxpayers. You can't possibly look at the situation you referred to as the "great resignation" and say that things are going well.

 

[Ashful]

You can't possibly look at the situation you referred to as the "great resignation" and say that things are going well.

I'm not sure why you've brought that up, twice now. Are you really implying that tens of millions of Americans having sufficient stored wealth to choose to resign or retire early in a booming job market is a sign that things are not going well? The "great resignation" is called such because 2021 and 2022 have set new records in the creation of new businesses, folks choosing on their own to leave their 9-5 grind and start new companies. I believe the forecast for this year was somewhere around 17 million new FEIN filings.

At least around here, there's more paying work than employees available to do it, in nearly all sectors of the economy. I can hardly think of a time the job market has been better.

Unfortunately, indicators are that we could see a backlash recession within the next two years. We’ve been on this ride before. Make some coins now, 2024 might be rough.

 

[ABMax24]

I would also suggest that this country is pretty communist already, albeit with a lot of corporate stewardship. Instead of the people owning the means of production, we give our tax money to corporations so they can take more of our labor. If our taxes an subsidize oil companies, why can't we set how much profit they can make? Why do CEO's and other executives get to reap the benefits of corporate welfare while flying in private jets? The laws demand that a citizen be in abject poverty to qualify for assistance, which is taken away if they end up making "too much" to qualify for assistance.

Socialism for the rich, communism for the poor.

I'm not sure that corruption, graft, or cronyism are the right reasons to promote socialism.

 

[woodey]

Unlike the Soviet Union, every 2-4 years the citizens of this country have a chance to oust clueless leaders who are forcing their political agenda upon them. Two examples of this ( in my view without trying to be overly political ) is the push to socialism and also green energy, before we are anywhere near the needed infrastructure for said power. Getting back onto the oil prices thread, this Administration is touting they are fighting prices at the pump by releasing oil from our strategic reserves. This "tactic" has not stopped the rise in the price of gas but may put us in a vulnerable spot this summer as we are heading into the hurricane season with 90% of our refineries along the gulf coast. As for green energy I'm all for it, but in due time . The powers that be are setting a unattainable goal of being free of fossil fuels by 2035. Considering the billions this country has spent over the last twenty years converting to green energy and less than 5% of our power is supplied by it, I think it's safe to say we have 0% chance of meeting this goal. I better sign off now before I give my views about China manufacturing 90% of the worlds solar panels with factories powered by coal.

 

[vinny11950]

Considering the billions this country has spent over the last twenty years converting to green energy and less than 5% of our power is supplied by it, I think it's safe to say we have 0% chance of meeting this goal.

Wait till you find out about all the subsidies and tax credits given to oil and gas companies just to sell you their products. I wish green energy was getting that.

The smart play now would be to spend more money on green energy, a stronger more versatile electric grid, maybe more nuclear. The sooner we can get off middle east oil, the better.

 

[EbS-P]

US administrations past and present can do little to influence OPEC. There is a reason it’s called a cartel.

Up 2$ today…
https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/@CL.1

Edit up another $ in the time it took to post.

 

[SpaceBus]

Lol, we "oust clueless leaders" just to install another one. It's the illusion of choice.

Diesel is creeping back down here, but gas is coming up to meet it.

 

[woodey]

. It's the illusion of choice.

The point being unlike some Nations we do have a choice.

 

[SpaceBus]

The point being unlike some Nations we do have a choice.

No, illusion of choice and having a choice are not the same thing.

 

[begreen]

Closing the thread. Once again it has gone awry with political opinions, contrary to forum rules. Meanwhile, locally regular just passed $6/gal. You don't even want to know diesel prices.