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Ok, I don't think my setup is going to work, looking for feedback

Post in 'Classic Wood Stove Forums (prior to approx. 1993)' started by RugerRedhawk, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. RugerRedhawk

    RugerRedhawk Member

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    Just installed an Upland 207, the style that has the outlet on the back of the stove, not the top. So I needed 2 elbows to get to my thimble. Then another strike is that my chimney is outdoors. I measured the interior of the flue and it's 6x6.5. So I guess I should have known that this wouldn't be ideal, but I thought it would work good enough fro my detached workshop building. For the record, the chimney was already there, and the stove was free, so it's not like I went and designed this setup this way, just thought it might work out. Used 7" stove pipe as recommended by upland.

    Anyway, I got everything hooked up and started up a small fire this evening. The wood wasn't the dryest, but it eventually got burning decent. I checked outside to make sure my thimble connection was sealed properly and everything, saw a nice plume of smoke pouring out of the top of the chimney. Only issue is once it got burning good, I was getting smoke inside the room. One thing I know I need to do is seal the oval connection between stove and pipe, I will do that with some heatstop. I could probably use new gasket on the doors, I was seeing some smoke coming out around the main double doors when they were shut. Also however I was seeing some smoke that seemed to be coming out from the side of the stove.... seemed strange. It was hard to see really, but that's what it looked like. All in all the room was getting pretty dang smoky and I had to take my logs outside and extinguish the fire. All of this burn was done with the damper open, I wasn't snuffing the fire or anything. I figure if I had proper draft flow, small issues like old gasket wouldn't be a big problem.

    Any chance of making this setup work at all, or should i scrap the whole idea? I feel like the system has too many strikes against it, an outdoor chimney, a smaller flue size, and 2x 90s in the stove pipe....Would looking for a smaller 'box stove' type wood stove or something be more reasonable? Or am I going to need to go a different route if I want to burn wood. I'd love to burn wood up there, but it's just an outbuilding, so if I need to invest much it's just not practical. I know this is a lot of info, but if anyone has any advice I'd like to hear it.

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  2. RugerRedhawk

    RugerRedhawk Member

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    Oh yeah, strike 4 is that it's a single story building, so the chimney isn't that tall. I've burned with wood in the past, so guess I should have known this would be a problematic setup. Have a little wood stove in our cabin though that only has a 10 foot 6" chimney and it works great, does having the chimney indoors make that much of a difference?
  3. KaptJaq

    KaptJaq Minister of Fire

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    Not being familiar with your stove the only thing I would say is that you answered your own question, poor draft. What material is the outside flue? Is it insulated? How long is it?

    If the flue is legit (i.e. insulated class A or masonry with clay lining) and is reasonably long (15 feet) did you try a paper fire to warm the air and start the draft? If it is a cold building with a cold flue it might take awhile to get the draft started...

    Better description of your install and maybe some pictures will get you some good advice...

    KaptJaq
  4. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Draft is important. Can you extend the height of the chimney?
  5. RugerRedhawk

    RugerRedhawk Member

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    Masonry chimney with clay flue.
    Masonry/clay chimney. I haven't measured it, but I don't think it's quite 15 feet. Probably closer to 12-13, but I'm not certain, maybe I'll measure tonight. I could probably add some height to it with additional blocks, not in this weather though. Regarding the paper fire to get the draft started, the draft actually didn't seem too bad at the start, and I had a good hot fire before I started seeing smoke coming in. I thought it could have been dust burning off of the stove or something like that, but it was too much for that. Maybe I'll seal the outlet joint and re-do the gaskets on the doors and see if I have any better luck.
  6. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    The chimney is cold. That together with the 3 90º turns in the smoke path are fighting draft. What is the ID of the masonry chimney?

    You could try a fire with construction scraps (2x4 cutoffs) and see if you can warm up the masonry chimney by burning them.
  7. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    I can tell you that stove works great with a insulated 6 inch outside insulated metal chimney. Single story.

    Connected to a correctly drafting chimney, all leaks are going to be drawn into the stove. Door leaks are going to make it go, leaks into connecting pipe or collar will cool chimney slowing it down.

    Make sure you have left and right baffle plates in the correct position, both AWAY from the side door. (sliding them apart is for open door "fireplace" use) The exhaust has to move towards the left door intake. This makes it a reverse burn stove that runs in cycles, and works very well when you figure out to load fully and let it burn to coals, and load fully again. It's not a stove designed for constant feeding.

    (Sliding the baffles apart allows lots of heat directly up, one way to heat the chimney in your case, but not the efficient way to burn this stove)

    Careful if you should use it in an outbuilding. The large one piece back is the part that expands the most and suseptable to craking if pushed from exterme cold to extreme hot. It should have a cast liner piece inside to protect it. It should have 2 Steel plate stoves take this abuse better and radiate quicker with more intense heat. Not longer, (the advantage of cast) quicker at start up.
    http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/upland-207-questions.79900/
  8. RugerRedhawk

    RugerRedhawk Member

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    Yeah, I started with a few 2x4 scraps, but probably added a few logs too quickly. I saw good smoke coming out of the top though, it oddly seemed like the issue got worse once the fire got going good, opposite of what I'd expect. My flue is only 6.5x6.


    Yeah that's what I was thinking about leaks, if the draft was right they wouldn't have this problem, they would just allow more air to be sucked in. I started with the baffles in the far right position as instructed, eventually tried it with the center open and the front doors cracked to see if that helped, but it didn't. I do not have a liner for the back of the stove.

    I have doubts that this is going to work out, but will probably give it one more try. I'll seal that exhaust pipe up good, and then make a small fire solely out of dry 2x4 scraps just to get the chimney warmed up and flowing as good as it can, then we'll see where I'm at. I will try with the baffles separated from the start too just to try and warm the chimney as quickly as possible.
  9. KaptJaq

    KaptJaq Minister of Fire

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    If burning the construction scraps long enough to fully heat the masonry doesn't work there are also lots of other things that can cause draft problems. What is around the chimney top? Is it three feet higher than the roof line next to it? Is it 2 feet higher than any roof within 10 feet? Is your outbuilding near another, possibly taller, building or tree line that is deflecting the wind down over the chimney? A nearby hill?

    KaptJaq
  10. RugerRedhawk

    RugerRedhawk Member

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    There is a hill behind the shop, and some red pines, nearby, but no other buildings. I'll have to check on the 3 feet above the roofline, I can't recall for sure right now and I'm at work.

    At what stovepipe temp would you expect the chimney to be fully heated? 300?
  11. RugerRedhawk

    RugerRedhawk Member

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  12. KaptJaq

    KaptJaq Minister of Fire

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    300° would be way too hot for the masonry flue, a lot of wasted heat going up there. It has to be warm enough to the top that the exhaust gases do not cool down too much. If they cool down you get a lot of unnecessary creosote buildup and, if they get cool enough, the exhaust gasses get heavy and the upward rise slows down. Once the gasses at the top slow then the warm exhaust from the stove can't escape fast enough and it starts looking for other exits.

    With the current cold spell it will take a while with a hot construction scrap fire to heat a cold masonry chimney. Starting with a cold building will make it even harder. Keep a small hot fire going for an hour or so. Slowly heat the stove and flue. Then start adding some larger splits...

    KaptJaq

    edited for spelling and grammar. I sudda turned on spell/grammar checker...:oops:
  13. RugerRedhawk

    RugerRedhawk Member

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    Thanks, I'll try babying it a little more tonight or in the morning and see if I have any better luck.
  14. RugerRedhawk

    RugerRedhawk Member

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    Well it went mostly well. I burned just some 2x4 scraps for about 45 minutes. Then slowly added small split pieces of hardwood. I set the baffles in the 'fireplace' position simply because I wanted the maximum draft possible for right now. I'll definitely try the proper position once I've got the setup figured out a little better, but efficiency isn't really a concern right now. Right when the stove first started to get really hot I was getting smoke that seemed to be coming from all sides.... I'm wondering if it could have possibly been a slight layer of sawdust burning off the stove's surface, it has been sitting in the workshop area for 2 years untouched.... After that subsided everything went well with no further smoke. I didn't get it too big tonight, because it was in my outbuilding and I didn't want to leave an unattended fire burning up there especially when I'm still getting the setup figured out. Anyway, the room was 28 deg when I started out, and 68 deg three hours later. Not too bad. It might not be perfect, but it looks like with a little effort I can get some good use out of this stove. I'm sure I'll be back with some questions in the future, I've burned wood many years in the past, but not with this exact setup. Thanks for the advice. Attached are pics too, it's not pretty yet, if it works out this winter I'll probably set up a nice little area for it.



    [​IMG]

    I plan on expanding that backer board all the way to the ground, realized tonight that I should to be safe.
  15. KaptJaq

    KaptJaq Minister of Fire

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    Glad it is starting to work for you. All new & new to me stoves take a little while to get to know. As long as they are in good condition and properly installed they can be figured out and used successfully...

    Happy burning.

    KaptJaq
  16. RugerRedhawk

    RugerRedhawk Member

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    Yep had another fire last night, just a small one, but it went well, no smoke at all. Great draft. I'm going to use it this winter, then over the summer next year I might dress the wood stove area up a little bit with a nicer scene.

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