Options for stove/insert install?

[nola mike]

I have a '60's era house with a Heatilator firebox of some sort in there now. Despite my best efforts, I can't get the thing to put out any semblance of real heat. So I wanted to replace with (preferably, I think) a free standing wood stove or an insert. From looking around, it seems that whether or not my current unit is zero-clearance determines my options. So is there a way to tell what I have before I rip it out? The chimney was originally on an exterior wall, but an addition was added behind it later. The chimney has been rerouted somewhat; it all appears metal, though the hearth and chimney surrounding the fireplace are brick. If this is a ZC unit, is my only option to replace it with a newer, similar sized ZC insert? Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Welcome Mike. It may be possible to put in an insert with a liner. If you can post a picture of the fireplace and provide the firebox dimensions we may be able to make some suggestions. How large and area would the stove ideally be heating?

 

[nola mike]

thanks for the reply. unfortunately, i'm not at the house to take pics, and won't be back for 2 weeks. The house is 1600 sf, and is located in Va; the temps in the winter will get into the 20's, and currently is (barely) heated by a heat pump. a bit more info. i have a heatilator mark 123, with a metal double walled chimney with a 9" ID; it does indeed appear to be zero clearance. Firebox dimensions (this is the actual interior of the insert; the wall opening, and the total size of insert is bigger) are 33"W x 29"H x 23"D, although I have a brick hearth extending out, so may have some room in depth. Seems like i'll need a 6" chimney insert no matter what. After that, does the existing heatilator unit have to come out, or is there an insert-within-an-insert? Can I use a traditional stove, or does my setup preclude that? Any other options?

 

[begreen]

It sounds straight forward for a ZC insert installation. There will need to be a 6" stainless liner dropped down the existing flue after it has been completely cleaned. You should be able to install any insert approved for this kind of application. Do you have a particular brand/model in mind?

 

[nola mike]

no, i'm still trying to figure out what my options are. so is a free-standing stove an option (i think the insert is the nicer-looking choice though)? is the insert installed within the heatilator, or does the old unit need to be removed? i'm open to brand/model suggestions...

 

[begreen]

There are some hearth stoves used in this application. Still needs a liner and usually a rear-vent flue. Jotul and Hearthstone make some good stoves for this application.

For an insert, sorry to answer with more questions, but I have no idea of what would appeal stylewise. How large is the area being heated, the whole house or just some rooms? How open is the floorplan?

 

[nola mike]

yeah, like i said, looks like a smaller liner is going to be needed regardless of what else i do. styling is more of an issue with my wife. i think the insert would be more to her liking, but we could also go free-standing if it's an option. 1600 sf area being heated, open floorplan except for the back bedroom, which is ~350 sf.

 

[begreen]

Well, get (or download) a Jotul brochure covering their inserts and stoves for a starter. But there are many other options if you so choose.

 

[Todd]

Another option is to rip the whole thing out and install a new hearth with a freestanding stove.

 

[nola mike]

Another option is to rip the whole thing out and install a new hearth with a freestanding stove.

i have a lot of masonry surrounding the current insert--i think that would be way more trouble than it's worth.

would something like this work? http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200325829_200325829

also, not sure of whether epa-certified is something i need or not; this stove says it's 75% efficient, and there's tax credit info, but i don't see epa certification. if i'm buying something for long term, i'd prefer it be energy efficient/reasonably clean, and would spend a bit more for such.

it would be nice to keep this around $1k for the stove; it would be nice if this could be primary heat source but supplementing the heat pump would be acceptable. doesn't make sense to spend a whole lot more, since we're using it primarily on the weekends. any other brands/models in that price range that would fit the bill?

drolet and osborn inserts both have this in the owners manual, which to me appears that they will work with my setup. true?

"2. INSTALLATION INTO AN EXISTING FACTORY-BUILT ZERO-CLEARANCE
FIREPLACE: It is possible to install a wood insert into an existing factory-built zero-clearance fireplace.
However, there currently exists no UL or ULC standard specific to that type of installation. The first thing
that must be verified is that the factory-built zero clearance fireplace is listed (it must be certified by a
competent certification body such as Omni or Warnock Hersey). It must be suitable for use with solid fuel
and nothing in the owner’s manual must specifically prohibit the installation of a fireplace insert. When in
doubt, check with the fireplace manufacturer. The installation of the zero-clearance fireplace MUST be
thoroughly inspected by a professional in order to ensure that it still meets the manufacturer’s specs and
code conformity. The chimney must be of at least 1" (25 mm) larger in diameter to accommodate a
required continuous stainless steel liner running from the flue collar to the top of the chimney termination.
Never remove parts that serve to insulate the zero-clearance fireplace from combustible material. Only
readily detachable parts that are easily replaced, such as damper parts, screens, and doors, are to be
removed from the fireplace. These parts must be stored nearby and available for retrofit if the insert is
ever removed. Removal of any parts which render the fireplace unfit for use with solid fuel requires the
fireplace to be permanently labelled by the installer as being no longer suitable for solid fuel until the
removed parts are replaced and the fireplace is restored to its original certified condition. Furthermore, any
air vents, grilles, or louvers that serve to create an air circulation pattern around and outside the zero-
clearance fireplace shall never be removed."

 

[nola mike]

ok, i think i'm moving closer. searching this site, looks like my current insert (heatilator mark 123) is UL listed, so i think that the above insert will work. also came upon this one: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200442426_200442426
which is slightly more efficient, same output, about the same size, epa certified, and cheaper. looks like it, the drolet, and some osborne stoves, as well as others, are all made by the same parent company (SBI).

so...
1) i'll need a 6" SS liner to go within my 9" ID chimney--what do i do with the current flue/damper, and where does a new one get installed (or is it integral with the insert)?
2) stove just sits right inside of the current insert--does it attach to anything, or just sit there?
3) can't modify current insert. it has a fresh air intake from the outside already, which vents to the current firebox. i assume this is sufficient to supply the new unit.
4) i'll need to modify/ensure that the old intake controls are still accessible. or maybe just leave them open and cover the controls with the surround.

is that it? doesn't seem that difficult. am i missing something here, or am i all set, and is it really that straightforward?

 

[nola mike]

just an update...managed to get the liner in (still need to insulate--i'm going to pour some in through the top) and the stove installed. a couple of break-in burns (lovely during the 80' days we've had here the last 2 days), and man, this thing puts out SO much more heat than my old heatilator. i really don't understand it, the old unit looked like it SHOULD work great. anyway, it took me maybe 8 hours or so from start to finish. i'm very pleased. i have a few trim issues to work out, and i still think that i'm going to fashion some louvers in the top vent to allow air to flow around the old insert. i ended up goining with the century unit. here are a few before and afters:

 

[earsy]

Thanks for the pictures and the updates on your progress. I am planning on installing an insert and was wondering what to do with the damper for running the 6” stove pipe partially up the flue. What did you do with your current/previous flue/damper?

 

[nola mike]

I took out the damper. Seems the consensus is the EPA stoves don't need them.

 

[begreen]

Did you install a damper-seal, block off plate? What's going to replace the bricks to make this installation permanent?

 

[nola mike]

Painted the bricks to match the surrounding hearth = permanent installation
Tried to do a block off plate, but the shape of my ZC chimney made it impossible. Ended up stuffing the gap with insulation, and adding perlite through the top (that was a mistake, it ended up finding a hole in my insulation when the chimney expanded/contracted with heating/cooling). I may add a vermiculite/cement slurry to better insulate come spring time. Not sure if that's necessary though.