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pacific vs summit insert

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by ms440, Apr 7, 2006.

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  1. ms440

    ms440 Member

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    Hello, I am trying to decide which insert fits my application better, the PE Pacific insert or the Summit. I have a ranch with a finished basement and will be heating the top floor. It is 1800 square feet on the top floor, and is of 70's origin with average insulation. I have a very large brick hearth in the middle of my house that has three flues. There is currently an older style fire place insert. The chimney is in good condition and is lined, and is 12x12. I am just wondering if the Summit will be overkill or the way to go. This heating season was 1000 gallons of oil so I am really looking to cut it down. Thanks.

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  2. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Wood stove/ inserts are space heaters so install them in the living space you want to heat. Basement installations
    assume hot air rised but all too often it is absorbed by concrete foundation walls and never reach the living area above
    Be more specific of your installation location and we all can offer suggestions 12/12 clay flue will require a full length liner per the cross-sectional code requirements
  3. ms440

    ms440 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
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    Loc:
    Maine
    Thanks for the reply. The hearth is in the middle of the house and the insert will be for the upper level. It is semi open, good for a ranch anyway. The room it is in has three openings to the other parts of the house. I do not expect it to do anything for the lower level. I have a Kerr wood boiler that I am trying to find someone to service, but that is a whole other can of worms. Thanks
  4. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    factor in this in your heat equasion all manufactures over state the BTU output and areas heated. Reduce their claims for real world conditionby 1/3 then figure what stove works best for you. Remember optium BTU are never substained for long periods of time, you are better off building and maintaing smaller fires then trying to achieve maxium heat output conditions. Which stove is better I will leave that up to owners of both to debate. In effort no post gets left behind I hope others will chime in Codes and installations I can help you with safe installs.
  5. ms440

    ms440 Member

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    Apr 6, 2006
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    Loc:
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    Man your fast. Thanks a bunch. I am leaning towards the Summit and hopefully some owners will chime in, I just didn't want to go overboard. I live in Maine and it does get cold here. Why I am getting this great idea now and not in October is a mystery.
  6. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

  7. Rhone

    Rhone Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    Second Elkimmeg here, there's no way the Pacific will do for you. No way, you need the summit.

    Like Elk is saying, when they say things like, "Heats up to 2000 square feet" I've yet to know actually what or where this 2000 square foot house is. I have to think it's a well insulated house in a mild climate that uses passive solar for aid. I'm joking of course but you get the point. Your house is in a much colder than normal climate, your house is leaky and average to low insulation. You may find a couple particularly cold days that even the summit can't keep up, you'll have a lot of those moments with a Pacific model. I have a 1310 square foot 60's ranch and purchased an insert that can heat 1800 sq feet. I've insulated, air sealed, tightened, and replaced windows and thought I'd be blown out of my house with my insert, everyone was telling me at the store "You want this sized insert for this house? You sure you know what you're doing?". I was nervous I chose one too big, it is just right. In short, when it's 10 degrees or lower I'm just able to keep my house warm with wood having that "oversized" insert. When it's 20-30F I can keep my house nice and warm and ideal, and when it's 40F I can fill it and let it burn for 12 hours and my house is nice and comfy.

    You and I have similar houses, mine built in 60's, yours 70's in similar climate and I think everyone will agree the specs they give are usually pretty high. If you take what the summit says it can heat and reduce it by 25%, you'll be around what your house size is and you being in Maine it being a little higher is a good thing. By the way, I converted your 1000 gallons of oil to be around 7.5 cords of seasoned, dry wood at 71% efficiency assuming a mixture of red oak, red maple, and white birch which is popular in your area. The 7.5 cords depends on a lot of factors so take it more as a ballpark figure. Seems kinda high to me, I'm not sure if the 1000 gallons includes your domestic hot water which can't be converted over to cord wood. Without doing the math I'd say 6 cords would get you by in Maine. If you have a tankless boiler (not to be confused with on-demand ones), you'll probably want to retrofit it with what's called an automatic "Vent Damper" to go in its flue, else you get a phenomina where your wood insert heating the chimney will draw air through your tankless boiler and the coils causing excessive idling and oil use. If you have a tanked system or an air furnace, should have no worries.
  8. Sundeep Arole

    Sundeep Arole New Member

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    Loc:
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    Rhone I observed this phenomenon in my house as well, and after a quick experiment I concluded it wasn't the heat transfer from the flues causing the increased draft, but rather because the rising smoke from the wood stove causing smoke to be pulled from the adjacent flue in a sort of venturi effect. The solution for this problem is considerably simpler - raise one flue a bit higher. You may have a different situation, but that is what I found in my case. I posted on this sometime, I'll see if I can find that post.
  9. ms440

    ms440 Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Maine
    Thanks for the replies. Yes I get my hot water off of my boiler. Firewood is the cost of chainsaw fuel and my time. I think its the summit all the way! I am considering purchasing a boiler mate for the hot water.

    When I first moved in I used by wood boiler a lot, but got frusrated because my oil boiler was still always kicking on. My solution was to turn it off. This worked ok, but it had to be restarted in the morning and the house would be cold when I woke up. I have been trying for months to get someone to check out by wood boiler to service it and check it out. It is an older Kerr, but appears in good shape, however, some of the automatic controls were never hooked up, so I wont use it anymore. Thanks guys.
  10. Willhound

    Willhound Feeling the Heat

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    Loc:
    Northern Ontario, Canada
    I also wrestled with the decision between the Pacific and the Summit. I was thinking Pacific because of the $800 savings over the price of the Summit, but the Summit won out in the end. And I'm really glad it did. Bigger firebox equals longer burn times and more heat, so less running for wood, and better chance of a true overnight burn.
    The other logic I used is that you can always build a smaller fire in a bigger unit, but can't go the other way, at least not without the risk of over-firing.

    I have a late 70's 1800 sq. ft. multi-level back split with the Summit on the bottom floor of living space, and with the configuration of my stairwells, the heat naturally moved to other areas of the house, keeping everything from between 70 to 76 F.

    As my buddy put it at the time : "
    Go big, or go home".

    Willhound
  11. Mo Heat

    Mo Heat Mod Emeritus

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    That's from StuMP Junkies, isn't it? :)
  12. Willhound

    Willhound Feeling the Heat

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    I dunno. It was a popular saying around here a few years ago when arguing about the relative merits of larger vs. smaller engine sizes in snowmobiles.

    Stump Junkies sounds like it might be a snowmobile video??? Or is it Eric's family reunion?? :lol:
  13. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Willhound long time no hear so how's you been doing?
  14. Mo Heat

    Mo Heat Mod Emeritus

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    Sorry Willhound, I didn't realize what an obscure reference I made.

    There is a program on TV around here called: "Stunt Junkies, Go Big, or Go Home". Foolish folks do all manner of insane stunts in an attempt to tempt Darwin and get themselves into the Guinness Book.

    Here are a few I've seen:

    Longest jump on a four wheeler.
    Reverse 360* on a four wheeler.
    Sky diving out of one plane and into another (never opened the chute).
    Longest and steepest mountain bike 'line'.
    Jumping four wheeler over a moving train.
    Land speed record for a skateboard. Around 90 mph I think.
    Highest base jump.
    etc.

    My StuMP Junkies reference was just a play on words for us wood burners.
  15. Willhound

    Willhound Feeling the Heat

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    Loc:
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    Hey Mo - Ah, I see.....yep, don't get that one on local cable.

    Hi Elk-, yep, been real busy, so unfortunatley don't have much time to hang out here. Still burning the Summit as there is still snow on the ground here, but the rain we are getting today and tommorrow is cleaning things up fast. Started a new career/business lately as a financial advisor/broker.
    Ouch....stop throwing the rocks guys........the way I look at it, I feel I'm a pretty down to earth, decent kind of guy, and maybe I can offer my services, and also treat people right at the same time. As one of my new colleagues puts it, "You'll either do really well, or you'll be the poorest, nice guy around."

    Oh well, worth a shot in my books.

    Anyway, not to hijack the thread....any more news on the decision between Pacific and Summit?
  16. Willhound

    Willhound Feeling the Heat

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    Hey Mo!

    Guess what? Flippin' thru the channels tonight, and what comes up? Stunt Junkies......
  17. Mo Heat

    Mo Heat Mod Emeritus

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    Cool. But I think they should change the subtitle from "Go Big or Go Home" to "Go Big, Then Go to the Hospital". I guess the money beats flippin' burgers for most of those kids. Don't see many old guys doin' that stuff. Even Evil K. had to hang it up. I think he ran out of bones to break. I see him occasionally on a pain reliever device commercial. I view him as an expert so maybe I'll try that little sparking pain relieving device he advertises, after a hard day of wood chopping. It it's good enough for Evil K., it's good enough for Mo.
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