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Posted By wolfcreek,
Dec 29, 2011 at 4:14 PM
Yes Henfruit, as a reseller of Slovakian-made Vigas boilers, what information are you privy to?
Do not weld cast fittings onto your storage tanks. :red:
Nice wood shed peter,I think i told you the story.
I appreciate you showing me your system Patrick, but you never told me the story. In fact, I'm fairly certain that you never even mentioned Poland or Slovakia. What have the Slovakians done to produce the "Rolls Royce" of boilers?
As a previous EKO 40 owner/operator (for 3 years) I can tell you that the effecta lambda 35 I now own/operate (this is my 2nd year of operation) is much easier to start fires in, requires much less attention once the burn is going (due to the Lambda sensor and individual stepper motor control), consumes less wood and produces less emissions in addition to looking very "sexy" (OK, if not sexy I must say it does look very nice).
Effecta has been using the Lambda sensor/stepper motor system for 7 years and thus has a very good history with it. The company has been producing boilers in Sweden for almost 30 years and also produces pellet boilers and solar collector systems along with buffer tanks (this fact should combat any concerns/comments about being a new prodcut to the market). The boiler also is capable of running without the Lambda sensor input if the sensor were to fail (a few simple key strokes on the control panel turns the Lambda sensor ciurcuit off).
Regarding pressurized storage, it is much simplier and in my opinion more efficient since it does not require a heat exchanger. Once the oxygen in the boiler/tank system has been "killed" it's very difficult to have corrosion occuring without oxygen (much like it is impossile to have combustion occur without oxygen). Not to mention, if you have propane tanks availabe locally it is very inexpensive to create.
I would think twice about spending the extra money on a variable speed circ. pump for the boiler portion/circuit which heats up the water batteries (storage tanks) becuase it only runs for 5-6 hours per day when heating up the tanks. At a consumption of 80 watts (with pump on high speed) thats approx. 400-500 watts per 5-6 hour burn cycle. In my area I'm paying about 11-12 cents per 1,000 watts and thus that means it takes little more than a nickle to operate the pump on my laddomat 21-60 loading valve for one complete burn cycle. However, I would seriously consider these pumps for the circuit which takes water from the watter batteries to the house as it will operate much more often.
My system is a very simple system. I pump hot water from the effecta lambda 35 boiler to the top of the storage tanks with one circ pump (laddomat 21-60 loading valve) and then pump water for the top of the same tanks to my residential heating system which consists of a combination of radiant floor heat and baseboard. I use an Azel Technologies switching relay to control the different zones in my house and the system works beautiful!
I hope this helps you in making your final decission as to boiler type/brand and system design/construction.
PS - I have included a photo of my effecta lambda 35 boiler and 2 x 500 stacked propane tanks storage (underneath the blue foam box) for your review (the front cover on the effecta lambda boiler is removed in this photo so that the individual stepper motor draft controls can be seen).
How much was your Effecta boiler?
Effecta 35kw~ $8000
I may be called a doubter but I have yet to be convinced that "lambda" control that cannot independantly control primary and secondary air mix is any more effective than altering fan speed. In my humble opinion the Vigas cannot be compared to a Froiling. They are not the same class of boiler.
I bet the Vigas is easier to start than an EKO. But I'd be shocked if it was measurably more efficient than Tarm/Bio/Eko in an apples to apples comparison. My opinion only.
Yes, you are correct!
I compare the effecta and Froling lambda control and operating systems to that of an oxygen acetylene torch (they maintain the correct ratio of primary/secondary inlet air to create a purple/blue flame and the "perfect burn" at all times throughout he entire 5 hour burn cycle). If the oxygen acetalyle torch is adjusted for too much acetylene it has a yellow flame and emits black soot. If the torch is adjusted for oxygen only it will not have a flame. However, once the ratio of oxygen and acetylene is perfected, a nice blue/pruple flame will cut through a 1/2" plate of steel!
When the effecta lambda 35 boiler is first started up it is cold and does not have a complete bed of hot coals. Thus, the lambda control system will default to a 70% primary / 30% secondary draft opening scenario.
Once the smoke/chimney temperature (which is displayed on the control panel) hits 101C the lambda control system then opens up the primary 100% and closes the secondary 100% so that a hot bed of coals is established as soon as possible.
From this point the boiler obliviously gets hotter and then the lambda control system closes the primary draft opening and opens the secondary draft opening in a effort to maintain the Target CO2 % setting.
This automatic opening and closing of the primary and secondary draft openings occurs throughout the entire 5 hour burn, thus ensuring maximum heat output, minimum wood consumption and minimum emissions.
Hope this helps!
I don't think the jury is back on that Stee. I thought the same thing you did. The website shows servo control of the secondary through Lambda & doesn't mention how the primary is controlled. If you know exactly how this boilers air is controlled would you please post? I've asked this question of others with no takers. Thanks, Randy
I wouldn't agonize long, deciding between an EKO or an Effecta with Lambda. The OP is worried about a probe failing, I guess thats why I would carry a spare. A lightening strike will take out either boiler so the controller is a non issue to me./// Are you stocking spares for these boilers Brian? I like the fact that secondary air is fed in through the entire nozzle length so unburned gas don't escape. I'm probably overly concerned with emissions as was pointed out to me. Theres worse than being an environmentalist I guess, Randy
I really cant imagine any boiler being easier to start than mine . takes 3 mins.
It's the red solo cup. Takes 10 mins off start up, minimum.
Stee,Tell me why the vigas is not in the same class as frohling?(not as pretty) Randy if you look at the cut away of the vigas the primary and secondary air are run by one servo motor with two shutter fan blades. Huff, That long with a full load of wood from torch to start up gasification under a minute.The controler on the Vigas is way advanced than all the boilers out there except the frohling and the effecta.There is an other thing all you eko users should be aware of they are not ul tested.So if you have a fire and your insurance finds out i doubt that you will be covered for your loss.
This is taken from CozyHeat Website:
"The Orlan EKO is currently the most popular gasification wood boiler in America. This boiler has been our main-stay for over a decade. We have had almost no problems with this boiler in that many years that is certainly something to be proud of! Positive draft, easy cleaning handle on side (no need to shut down stove and manually clean), RK2001UA controller, modulating draft, direct communication with your oil or gas boiler, 2" supply and return ports with American threads. U.L., CSA, C.A., TUV approved."
Is this not true?
Henfruit, Unless there are 2 independant servo flaps or at least one servo flap & control of fan speed you cannot adjust ratios in an optimal manner.. So far no one will step up to the plate here & clarify. So I'm just going to assume the ratio is not adjustable as the Froling & Effecta are. Maybe you can do some digging & get some good info Henfruit? Thanks, Randy
Don We can all write what we want you hear.Call omni testing labs and ask them if they have certified the eko? Then tell what the truth is. Randy they do it with one servo motor controlling 2 shutters.The Vigas also has a modulating fan controlled as the tank reaches it set temp.Just because they do it with one servo does not mean it is wrong.Do you think they would spend all that money on r&d and sell a product that did not perform.
LOL Stee. The red solo cup not only holds rum and coke it will also hold 16 ounces of indian fire starter.
Welcome to the Forum! As I near completion of my EKO 60 with 1100 gallons of storage, my best advice is to read everything on this forum twice BEFORE you commit to any one design!! And if you have imagined the cost of your install, DOUBLE it just for starters...... That being said, you should definitely spring for extra valves, disconnects and quality pumps. I know someday I will get over how much my system has cost to install and once it's up and running stop worrying about costs and start enjoying a house which is warmer than 50 in the winter......
Henfruit what would I do with the all that extra time. I'm not disputing how good a Vigas is and I wasn't claiming that the EKO gets to gasification in 3 mins.
I was stating how long it takes me to light a fire which includes stuffing the boiler with kindling and firewood and lighting it with a torch from underneath shutting the door turning the fan on and walking away. I'm just glad i'm a user: propane is now 93 cents a litre.
Don I see TUV stickied onto the back of the boiler but no CSA or UL.
I'm with huff I don't Know how a boiler can get much easier to light unless it loads its self. It takes me 6 min. to fill with wood.
and four minits after lighting I pull the bypass and its gassing. done in 10 min total for the day. Im sure the lambada increases
effeciency, but enough to worry about ?
Same with mine. I don't really care because my boiler is in a small shed that is not insured anyway, but everything else is. I do find it offensive when companies and sales people mislead their customers. As always, buyer beware!
Exactly. Thanks, Singedbrows.
If you are not adjusting the primary/secondary RATIO you aren't doing anything other than modulating total air going in. This is the same as adjusting fan speed. Having a system that can actively modulate fan speed/air input is better than our static setups on the EKO but my opinion is that the improvement is likely not measureable for most users. True lambda control, on the other hand, sounds awesome in my opinion. But it also adds a lot more to the spares list and upfront cost.
Henfruit, other than this mysterious UL claim do you have any other reasonable observations regarding the Orlan EKO? UL or not I haven't seen too many issues with these boilers other than sub par door seals. Please tell me your disdain for the EKO is based on more than your alleged phone call to Omni labs.
Stee, What is the definition of true lambda? As far as the ul listing it is what is not tested.