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PLEASE HELP!! Smoking Hearthstone Phoenix

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by jkeczy, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. jkeczy

    jkeczy New Member

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    I purchased a Hearthstone Phoenix this past fall and have had a smoking issue with it ever since. Every time I open the door to put wood in, smoke puffs back, and my entire house smells like smoke for hours. If I can not resolve this issue, unfortunately ill be selling this stove. Does anyone have any suggestions??

    Just to clarify, I use only 2 year seasoned hardwood. My wood is very dry and burns well. My chimney is not obstructed with any bird nest or anything. And I do have a good draft. I know this because prior to this wood stove I used a Vermont castings and never had a single smoking issue. My chimney also stands around 4ft higher then my roof. I am also not interested in a draft inducer.

    Thanks!

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  2. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover Minister of Fire

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    Did you try opening a window?
  3. jkeczy

    jkeczy New Member

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    Yes I did actually this morning. No difference still smoked.
  4. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Let's start with the obvious question; how are you opening the door? Do you crack it open and then open it slowly, or do you just open it up and smoke comes out?
  5. Dakotas Dad

    Dakotas Dad Minister of Fire

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    Tell us about your install.. what kind of chimney? Which side of the house? Trees near it? Pictures help..

    Honestly, just because 1 stove works well in location "a", does not mean they all will... every install/stove IS different.

    Before opening door.. open air control fully, count to ten, then s l o w l y open door. Have you tried doing it that way?

    Oh, and welcome to the hearth, if it can be sorted out, these guys can do it..
  6. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Browning, you beat me to the question. lol

    There is usually not much that will cause the smokey conditions: poor draft, poor wood or not properly running the stove (like how you open the firebox door). That Phoenix should be a good stove.
  7. jkeczy

    jkeczy New Member

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    I open the door slowly. I crack it, wait 5 sec and then open it. And smoke still pours out. I have a brick chimney and I believe the inside chimney are 12" by 8" pipes. I installed the stove myself. I didn't change anything from the previous stove, I just installed the phoenix into the existing configurations. My exhaust pipe is 6 inches.
  8. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Not enough to just crack it and wait 5 seconds. First you must open the draft full. Wait a few minutes, then crack the door for a few seconds before opening it full.

    One other question would be on how you installed the flue. What is the chimney like? How tall? Any bends? Usually recommended is 13' minimum and if any bends, add 2-3' per elbow. 4' above the roof is fine as long as the rest is in order.
  9. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    You do or don't have a 6" liner in your chimney?
  10. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Sounds like a flue issue. In milder temps flue problems will show up that aren't as apparent when it's colder.

    To help out, we need a detailed description of the flue installation from stove to the flue cap.
  11. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    Loc:
    Averill Park, NY, on Burden Lake II...
    What is the moisture content of your wood? Have you actually checked it?
    What was the flue size on your VC - 8"? That will tend to draft better into an 8 x 12 flue
    than by running 6" into it without a liner...
    How many elbows AFTER the 45 degree starter do you have in the system?
    A chimney height of 4ft higher than the roof may or may not be enough,
    depending on the pitch of the roof & how far up the roof the chimney is located...
    As has been stated in previous replies - We need pix...
  12. nelraq

    nelraq Member

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    Stoves definitely operate differently with the same chimney system.

    I originally had a PE on a 14 foot straight up installation. The stove drafted very well with this configuration.

    I sold the PE and replaced it with a Jotul Oslo. Didn`t change a thing in the chimney - I just removed the PE and replaced it with the Oslo.

    I fought with the Oso all winter; trying to get it to burn well and not take 3 -4 hours to come up to temp. I also had some smoke coming out the door.

    Several members of this forum finally convinced me to extend my chimney. I ended up adding 5.5 feet - the stove works great now!
  13. Wood Heat Stoves

    Wood Heat Stoves Minister of Fire

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  14. jkeczy

    jkeczy New Member

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    When I open the stove door I always make sure the airvent is completely open. And yes, my flue size is a 8" by 12". I have never checked the moisture of the wood but it sits for at least a year, and I buy seasoned wood. There are also no trees or over obstructions around my house. One other issue that may be causing my stove to smoke I just realized may be its location. The stove is on the second floor, and it shares the flue with a fire place (un-used fire place) located downstairs. The wood stove pipe literally is just tapped into the flue. To try and make this more clear, its a single flue that runs from my roof to my basement. I tried today to open the flue in the down stairs fire place and see if it helped the draft but it didnt.
  15. Dakotas Dad

    Dakotas Dad Minister of Fire

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    OK, so you have a piece of 6" stove pipe just stuffed into the side of tile lined fireplace chimney, with just 8-10 or less feet of chimney to draw?? and the chimney is "shared" with an open fireplace on a lower floor...??

    I gurendamtee you have no draft.

    Your manual should tell you about 7 different things wrong with the "chimney" part of your install.
  16. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Thanks jk, that clarifies the problem very well. First, are you sure the flue pipe is in common with the downstair's fireplace flue? If so, this is an illegal installation.

    The bad draft is due to multiple issues. The flue is too large for a 6" stove pipe, it's 2.5x the area. The open fireplace + the oversize pipe is slowing down the draft to a crawl, or worse.

    Dakota is correct. Many times in the manual there is the warning:

    "Do not connect this stove to a chimney serving another appliance; you will compromise the safe operation of both the wood stove and the connected appliance."

    In this case, the downstairs fireplace is the other appliance. Hopefully the stove is not in a bedroom, that would be a bad trifecta.
  17. Wood Heat Stoves

    Wood Heat Stoves Minister of Fire

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    was it dealer installed?
    i'd ask them to help fix the improper install
  18. jkeczy

    jkeczy New Member

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    I didn't install the wood stove I just replaced an existing one. Thanks guys I pretty much ruled that out but I am glad I asked. If I put a liner in the chimney would this solve my problem?
  19. ansehnlich1

    ansehnlich1 Minister of Fire

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    http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/assets/files/document_library/Phoenix8612Manual.pdf

    Read the manual. It clearly states "DO NOT CONNECT THIS UNIT TO A CHIMNEY
    FLUE SERVING ANOTHER APPLIANCE!" It says this in several places.

    It also says "Ensure the size of the chimney’s flue is appropriate
    for the Phoenix. The Phoenix requires a 6" (152 mm)
    inside diameter flue for new installations. A 6â€
    diameter flue provides adequate draft and
    performance."

    It also says "This stove requires a minimum chimney height of 13
    feet (4 m). The maximum allowable chimney height
    is 30 feet (9m)."

    I believe that if you do the above referenced things your stove will perform just fine.
  20. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    A 6" liner will make this a much safer installation. The downstairs fireplace will need to have its damper bolted closed with a note indicating it's no longer usable as a fireplace.

    How well this will work will depend on the height of the new liner. There's still the issue of the 2-90º turns in the smoke path. How tall will this be from stove to the chimney top?
  21. summit

    summit Minister of Fire

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    make sure the brick baffle is all in place. They can get jostled around when the stove gets transported. If those bricks and the ceramic fiber blanket above them get pushed upward and off track, they will restrict your smoke flow thru the stove and cause this issue. Happens w/ the Hearthstone phoenix and Lopi stoves (similar baffle construction to the phoenix) all the time.
  22. Dakotas Dad

    Dakotas Dad Minister of Fire

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    Sorry, Inigo(BG). I didn't mean to jog him so hard.


    ;-)
  23. Kscott

    Kscott New Member

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    Same thing happened to me--you may want to check the ceramic blanket that lays right on top of the baffle. Mine ended up all waded up-torn there and it was blocking the draft. I pulled it out-and I tossed --and now have to find another ceramic blanket to put back in the stove.
  24. shoot-straight

    shoot-straight Burning Hunk

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    pheonix owner here. problem is not specific to that stove- i'll be the house on too little draft. mine is in a masonary fireplace, with a 6" ss liner all the way to the top. i think im right at the 30' max height.

    BTW, what does that little wolly blanket do anyway? to be honest, i think i took it out and threw it away! i thought it was packing material or insulation from the home build.... :)
  25. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    The phoenix does have a pretty big door/window so a poor draft will present more spillage problems than a stove with a small door.

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