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Progress ( woodstock)

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by doug60, Oct 9, 2011.

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  1. doug60

    doug60 Member

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    I like the look of the new stove & commend its designers.
    However I am a Equinox owner & am more than content with its performance.
    The colder it gets the more heat it puts out. Probably due to stronger draft when cold.
    Looking at the build picks of the the new hybrid, reminds me of my 78 VC Defiant.
    IMO to many complex parts , some moving, Also having to pick up a tool to open the door or engage to cat seems cumbersome.
    I like the Stainless steel Fire back , Over the tube design in my equinox though.
    Add at the introductory price I almost jumped.
    I'm sure the Progress is going to be a great heater & Woodstock will be there for you if you need them.
    I almost talked myself into it again.
    For now I'm going to stick with the simple design of the Equinox. No moving parts to warp , no cat to replace or maintain. Buy the way top drop side door on my Equinox is a mistake IMO . I already had a spring failure. KISS (Keep it simple ____
    Again just my opinion. thanks for reading.
    doug

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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    There's nothing wrong with simple. It's my preference also. How well the Progress stands up over time will take several seasons of regular use. It may be fine though. There are several original VC stoves with bypass doors still pulling their weight, year after year. Woodstock takes a lot of pride in what they create and they stand behind their products, so I'm hoping it's a winner. It's a bit too Victorian styled for my taste, but if it performs well running 24/7, year after year, burning cleanly over a wide temperature range, then it starts looking pretty good.
  3. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    I think the real sticking point will be the actual price. $3,600 is no drop in the bucket. It will be interesting to see how this effect sales and if that truly is the price they stick with.

    Because, at that price point, they are at the upper end of stove costs. The other four models they currently sell compared well to the pricing of other stoves in their range. This one does not. A buyer could by a Firelight or a VC Defiant, or an Isle Royal for about $1,000 less than the final cost of the new Woodstock and get the same amount of heat (in theory, based on specs). And all of those stoves can be seen and touched locally.

    When your price point compares to other stoves, the direct mail concept isn't a big hurdle. When your product is viewed as greatly more expensive than seemingly comparable products, the direct mail hurdle could be a bit more of an issue.

    It may be a quality stove, but at a minimum of a thousand dollars more than it's competitors will make it a tough sell.
  4. Danno77

    Danno77 Minister of Fire

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    Or, for the same amount of money I could buy an Englander and over 20 cords of wood.
  5. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    An '85 Honda and a 2011 535i will both get you to the grocery store as will an F150. There's a market for folks that want a premium stove. The question is how big is it? FWIW, Woodstock frequently has sales. Perhaps the retail price is high so that the sale price is more attractive?
  6. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Saying that a VC Defiant, PE T6, Isle Royal, Jotul firelight is comparable to a '85 honda seems to be a bit of a stretch. I think my comparisons were a bit more accurate than that.
  7. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Not saying that at all. That would be more equivalent to say a Kent Tile stove perhaps and an F150 maybe more like the 30NC.
  8. HollowHill

    HollowHill Minister of Fire

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    But what about the comparision to other soapstone stoves? Isn't a Hearthstone Mansfield around 3.6K? And the Equinox around 4k?
  9. rottiman

    rottiman Minister of Fire

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    Same concept as catchin Bass in a $70,000 Ranger or a $7000 Bass Tracker. Simply a matter of being able to afford the overkill and being able to say "I own the Cadillac". Different strokes for different folks........................................
  10. Danno77

    Danno77 Minister of Fire

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    Vehicle analogies only work if you say they haul the same, are equally fast, ride is similar, they will require similar maintenance and have similar life expectancies, but one just looks a little nicer and gets 1mpg better mileage.
  11. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    The Mansfield starts at $3400. Which makes it $400-$600 cheaper after shipping. But, from the general public's perspective, both of those stoves have larger claimed fireboxes and equal or higher BTU ratings (which all of us hear know can not be trusted, but the specs remain).

    At this point, only the Equinox is equaled/more (depending upon shipping as the Equinox runs about $4,000) when it comes to price.
  12. rottiman

    rottiman Minister of Fire

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    My mistake, should make the analogy simplier. "Burn stick of wood, make heat" How you do it and how many $$$$$$$ you use to do it are a personal choice.........
  13. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    But, it's not though. Because it could be argued that PE and Jotul make top of the line products. A Jotul Firelight is a damn fine stove. No where near an economy line stove. You can get a Firelight starting at $2,800 (may a bit more depending upon your location. With shipping, that is $1,000 less which is a lot of money.

    I like the Woodstock. If I had the cash right now to be able to afford two PH stoves at the $2,400 price I would already have my order in for them and would be sitting here acting frigidity with excitement.

    But, the fact remains that this stove will be far more expensive than comparable stoves and I wonder how or if that will effect sales.
  14. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    People will spend it as long as it works as advertised imo. The BK stoves east of the Mississippi have a crazy premium attached to them and they seem to sell. The BK stoves are just plain looking steel boxes and people shell out plenty for them.
  15. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    I've seen BK owners and potential owners comment, angrily at times, about the price differences depending upon your location. How big is the price swing?
  16. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    This is just a guess, but I think it will prove true. $3,600 will probably be the standard retail price, which they will never sell them for. This seems to be their pricing structure. I've never seen the Fireview or the Keystone sell for the standard price. There is always some kind of a "sale" of varying degress.
  17. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    Before I found mine online I was quoted swings ranging 800-1000. I was going to make a drive west if I didn't happen to stumble upon mine on craigslist.
  18. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    It would be fantastic if there sales resemble their current promotion that they are running.
  19. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Function over form. Everything else is just fluff. If you like spending your money that way, go for it. If not, don't.
    Personally, I'll keep the money for more important things, rather than how pretty it looks in my house (to a point).
    Doesn't seem like the stove has much greater efficiencies than a bunch of other stoves at any price point.
    Next contestant, please.
  20. Danno77

    Danno77 Minister of Fire

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    Agreed that it's personal choice. I'm randomly frugal, so this concept eludes me with wood stoves. Would I pay two times as much to get a stove like mine in comparison to a Vogelzang boxwood? heck yeah, the efficiency, safety, and looks are definitely worth that. Would I pay 2 times more for a stove like this over my stove? Heck yeah. The looks and efficiency are totally worth it. Would I pay 5 times more? Ummm, not even a realistic question for me (but might be for some). No way, no how. Now, if I can find a half off sale I might think twice. To be fair, I'm using my stove's discounted prices, and not the general retail price. I should probably be comparing retail to retail.
  21. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    And there is always group in the market that feels that way. Which is completely understandable. In fairness to Woodstock, you wouldn't purchase a VC Defiant, Jotul Firelight, or a Quad Isle Royale. You would probably be more of a 30NC type of guy if you needed a large capacity stove.
  22. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    The pH at 2.7 cubic feet will fail hard at 3600$. That's my prediction anyway.

    Here's my car analogy.... the pH is priced and featured like a rolls royce. Perhaps they, like RR, only plan to sell a handfull of stoves and they probably will to those customers that choose to pay the high price for a somewhat high level of sophistication.

    If they want to sell lots of stoves then they need to lower the price. Can't compare a WS stove to a hearthstone that is available to look at, touch, and be supported by dealers at every corner.
  23. snowleopard

    snowleopard Minister of Fire

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    Why do I get the feeling that PapaDave's LOML was chosen for more than her function? . . .
  24. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    And this was why my initial comparison was of the more expensive, but comparable in size, stoves on the market.
  25. Danno77

    Danno77 Minister of Fire

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    By the way, I can't believe people really think that looks don't play a part. Even my frugal self knows that if there are two stoves sitting side by side and one costs $5 more and just looks wayyy nicer I will spend that five bucks. 10 bucks more? Probably. 100 more? It's getting grey, how much nicer? A thousand more? Not for me, buddy.

    Point is that looks are important, some people are more able and willing to spend certain amounts of money on those looks.
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