Propane $1.59/gal thru next April

[ken3698]

Today, I locked in until next April 30th... Unless Pellet prices come down below $200/ton, I'mprobably going to go with the propane most of the time and pellets only for our occasional enjoyment..
Has anyone else seen this low of propane already? What do you think the chances of seing pellets below $200/ton?

 

[Stentor]

Here's something from today's Wall Street Journal. I wonder how gas supply will play out for other energy sources, especially pellets?



"* June 15, 2009, 10:39 AM ET

Gas Attack: Coal (And Clean Energy) Under Assault From Cheap Natural Gas

By Keith Johnson
Is natural gas dethroning King Coal? Even clean coal?

The combination of greater-than-ever-expected domestic supplies of gas, and a recession that has hammered demand for the stuff, has sent gas prices tumbling. Crude oil is down 52% from last July’s highs; natural gas is down 69%. As the WSJ notes today:

"Abundant new supplies of natural gas, combined with reduced demand for electricity, have sent prices tumbling to less than $4 per million British thermal units from more than $13 last July. That drop could prompt power companies to invest billions of dollars in natural-gas fired plants.

That’s bad news for clean energy—the cheaper natural gas becomes, the harder it is for wind farms and solar power to compete on cost with traditional power sources. It’s also bad news for coal, which provides the fuel for half the U.S. electricity generation and which already faces plenty of questions about long-term supplies.

More immediately, plummeting natural gas prices threaten coal’s single biggest advantage as a fuel for electricity: Its cost. Even though coal still only costs about half as much as natural gas, the WSJ notes, gas is cheaper to transport and gas-fired power plants use fuel more efficiently.

Why not just use more natural gas? That offers a 50% reduction in power plant greenhouse-gas emissions—and more cheaply, if gas prices stay low.
Of course, a push to natural gas carries one huge question mark (not including earthquakes): prices. Natural gas is cheap now, but as last summer shows, it can spike in a hurry. As the economy–especially industrial activity–picks up, natural gas prices will probably rise."

(Sorry if this post is a bit long and slightly off topic, but it's mostly factual rather than opinion and does apply to discussion of pellet pricing trends.)

 

[woodsman23]

Today, I locked in until next April 30th... Unless Pellet prices come down below $200/ton, I'mprobably going to go with the propane most of the time and pellets only for our occasional enjoyment..
Has anyone else seen this low of propane already? What do you think the chances of seing pellets below $200/ton?

Who has it for 1.59 in western ny??. Let me know.

 

[newguyjoe]

propane for me still costs 3.79/g for me in orange county NY. gettin ripped off.

 

[imacman]

Today, I locked in until next April 30th... Unless Pellet prices come down below $200/ton, I'mprobably going to go with the propane most of the time and pellets only for our occasional enjoyment..
Has anyone else seen this low of propane already? What do you think the chances of seing pellets below $200/ton?

Ken, I was curious how you decided that pellets would have to be below $200 for you to burn them instead of propane. According to the Pellet Fuel Institute fuel cost calculator and the one that is on this site, at a price of $1.59/gal for propane, pellets would be cheaper per BTU if they cost $275-285/ton or less, depending on which calculator you use.....I've included both for you to try:

www.pelletheat.org/3/residential/compareFuel.cfm

or

www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/

 

[ken3698]

Sorry for the slow reply...
#1 - Ferral gas has this early buy price. They have a office outside of Lockport. Main office is in Batavia.

#2 - I know the calculators - used them many times. But, when our family uses pellets it's actually cheaper. Noone goes and turns the furance up when the pellet stove is on because we keep it around 73 degs. Our upstairs is usually around 63-65. If I don't run the pellet stove, my furnance turns on almost every 10 minutes when it's 30 deg outside. I have been keeping a excell spreadsheet for about three winters of propane/pellet usuage recorded weekly and broken down to what my daily avg will be depending on the time of year. At roughly $1.59/gal for propane, next winter i will go thru about $60/week. Now, based on that same outside temperature, if I buy pellets at $200/ton my price will be around $58/week using pellets only. -yes the house overall is slightly colder, but where we spend the majority of our time is at a very comfortable 73degs.

 

[exoilburner]

Western Washington state at the beginning of the year and through spring propane prices were averaging around $2.60 a gallon.

In May propane prices dropped to $2.30
In June (this month) dropped again to $1.45! (I called 2 local dealers today 6/23/09)

Using the DOE energy efficiency calculator; in April this year my propane BTU cost was almost double Pellet BTU cost. Now in June these BTU costs are about the same.

Thought it might be a cyclical summer price fluctuation but there has been none in past years.

Anyone hear why Propane prices have decreased so much?

 

[ADVA]

Today, I locked in until next April 30th... Unless Pellet prices come down below $200/ton, I'mprobably going to go with the propane most of the time and pellets only for our occasional enjoyment..
Has anyone else seen this low of propane already? What do you think the chances of seing pellets below $200/ton?

I am in North NJ.
Switched to Pellet Stove.

Propane is "mafia priced" right now here at 3.87 per gallon!

 

[gottahavvitt]

Today, I locked in until next April 30th... Unless Pellet prices come down below $200/ton, I'mprobably going to go with the propane most of the time and pellets only for our occasional enjoyment..
Has anyone else seen this low of propane already? What do you think the chances of seing pellets below $200/ton?

I am in North NJ.
Switched to Pellet Stove.

Propane is "mafia priced" right now here at 3.87 per gallon!

Here in Western mass I am paying $4.09 for propane. It blows my mind the diff. in prices. We are on a budget plan and they want to raise the cost even more because we hardly use propane since I installed the stove. It is downright thievery.

 

[whitey76]

Locked in at $1.699 thru FerrelGas last April and expires this coming April.

I was thinking of having them come top me off until I read this. Now I'm thinking of waiting it out. I was fearing that my next contract would be up around $2.00.

 

[Flammam]

I paid 4.99 gal. 2 weeks ago. Called and threw a fit since my last fill in dec was 2.67 gal. Thier new policy is if your useage is less than 250 gal/year the fixed price is 4.99. I also called around to all the local propanee suppliers and they all have the same policy now....talk about market fixing.

 

[ablejoy]

I paid $2.70 gallon 1st of Feb. was $1.70 sept. I only buy 150 gallons at one time all we can afford. Hope it goes done this summer then will try and fill the tank. I have cut use by about 450 gallon a year using the pellet stove.

 

[gottahavvitt]

I paid 4.99 gal. 2 weeks ago. Called and threw a fit since my last fill in dec was 2.67 gal. Thier new policy is if your useage is less than 250 gal/year the fixed price is 4.99. I also called around to all the local propanee suppliers and they all have the same policy now....talk about market fixing.

I was told that if you own your own tanks the price is cheaper but it would take forever to pay off the cost of 3 new tanks for me.
Who are you buying your propane from?

 

[twojrts]

I live in a mobile home park and we have no choice in where we buy our propane. It is included with our ground rent. This past month it was $9.07 a cu foot!
I only paid $54.00. Had I used more, the price per cu ft would have been less I'm sure. They can keep their darn propane. I only use it for cooking now that I have the pellet stove.

 

[Flammam]

I paid 4.99 gal. 2 weeks ago. Called and threw a fit since my last fill in dec was 2.67 gal. Thier new policy is if your useage is less than 250 gal/year the fixed price is 4.99. I also called around to all the local propanee suppliers and they all have the same policy now....talk about market fixing.

I was told that if you own your own tanks the price is cheaper but it would take forever to pay off the cost of 3 new tanks for me.
Who are you buying your propane from?

Rices in Greenfield. I also called Osertman and the rest of the local dealers. I already own the tank. My useage is for cooking and clothes dryer although I was going to go to propane for DHW rethinking that decision pretty closely now.

 

[ADVA]

Here in Western mass I am paying $4.09 for propane. It blows my mind the diff. in prices. We are on a budget plan and they want to raise the cost even more because we hardly use propane since I installed the stove. It is downright thievery.[/quote]

I am not certain...&....I would like to know:

I heard Propane is one of the first by products from the crude oil & is the easiest/least costly to produce.
Considering the main users of propane are the middle to lower middle class.
In other words people whom scrape by & dont have bucks to blow.

If this is the case...
There is something ethically wrong with this.

Just like a 35.00 overdraft fee for a 3.00 purchase.


The renewable energy/Pellets included have them just a little shaken up.
Now all of a sudden they are touting natural gas...That the US has abundant supply & they can now lower the cost & are pushing the government for its use in power plants.
They better not be getting any grant money

 

[ADVA]

I paid 4.99 gal. 2 weeks ago. Called and threw a fit since my last fill in dec was 2.67 gal. Thier new policy is if your useage is less than 250 gal/year the fixed price is 4.99. I also called around to all the local propanee suppliers and they all have the same policy now....talk about market fixing.

I was told that if you own your own tanks the price is cheaper but it would take forever to pay off the cost of 3 new tanks for me.
Who are you buying your propane from?

Rices in Greenfield. I also called Osertman and the rest of the local dealers. I already own the tank. My useage is for cooking and clothes dryer although I was going to go to propane for DHW rethinking that decision pretty closely now.

You can rent the smaller 2' diameter tanks from them cheap.
Rent at least 2 if you never want to run out.
Load the empty one up in your vehicle & find a propane filling station for at least 1.00 to 2.00 cut in price.
I ended up doing this.
Now I am using the Pellet stove & they can come & pick up their tanks.
I have one tank I own cheap for a spare in case the stove goes.
I believe if you can prove your using it for heat.
They will lower the price.

 

[andyc]

Hi guys. First post but have been lurking for quite awhile (years). Just got a load of propane last Wed. $2.05 per gallon. N.Cent.CT
My own tank 500 gal. underground. I took 335 gal. since mid Nov.'09. Neighbor across the street rents tanks (2 100 lb. and usually refills every two to three weeks in winter) from another dealer and paid $3.35 per gallon 4 or 5 days before my delivery.
I agree propane prices are all over the place, greedy bastards,I usually call a few dealers before I place an order and my guy is always the least expensive, usually by at least 50 cents per gallon. The only thing is they want me to take a min. of 300 gallons or it's 10 cents more per gallon. Not a problem.

I started burning pellets back in 1995. Austroflamm Integra FS...Dry Creek $140./ton. The house was then a ranch about 1250 sq.feet.Electric baseboard. Basement installed the stove, vented straight into a chimney (good draft) and just used the stairway for convection upstairs (no fans )...heated the house well, loved it, no more paying for electric heat. Stove paid for itself in no time and the house was warm for a change.In 2007 added a 1460 sq.ft addition, upgraded the house to central heat/AC using propane for heat,kitchen stove,dryer,gas fireplace in new master bedroom and DHW. Put the Integra in storage after 11+ years usage as I thought it was getting old and time for something new before the Integra sh**thebed so I got an Avalon Astoria FS.

Installed the Astoria in Jan.'08 and was never really happy with the heat output but thought Hey the house is alot bigger now that's the way it is. So time goes on and still not happy with Astoria so lets test and compare...get the Integra out clean it all up, test fire it out in the driveway, looks like everything still works...lets do it. Had to make some exhaust changes ...4" for Astoria...back down to 3" for the Integra.
The Integra works great like I rembered it did,it'll burn you out of the basement area,running at half to three quarter speed,heat in basement is 80' to 82'F Integra...Astoria was 74'to 76'F at full speed, heat in the old section of the house is now 71'to73'F, the newest section which is furthest away is 66' to 68'F and the propane heat has hardly come on at all. Outside temps have been warmer though lately.
Loving that Integra all over again...I'm not bashing the Astoria at all, it's a good working stove but IMO it's over rated BTU wise I think.
FYI this year started with 6 tons of Maine pellets Athens the only complaints are lots of ash with both stoves and auger jams with the Astoria never had a jam with the Integra in all the years I've used it...probably 4 times with the Astoria. I've never sifted for fines...everything goes into the hopper.
Not sure what I'm going to do this year for pellets though...last year some friends and I bought 2 trailer loads to split (44 tons)
$217.00/ton delivered to a buddies farm in June. We're talking about doing it again this year but everything I read here about Okies sounds pretty good...can get them delivered to me for about $240.00/ton...hoping they will go lower, I'll wait another couple of weeks and decide then. Another 6 pallets comming up soon.
Something happens with the Integra I'm eyeing the Enviro Omega.

Sorry this has been so long for a first post and hope I can help if someone has problems with an Astoria or Integra, have done all my own work and installs on these two stoves only. Have researched for buddies on their stoves, so only book knowledge on those.
Good Day, Andy

 

[johnny1720]

You can rent the smaller 2' diameter tanks from them cheap.
Rent at least 2 if you never want to run out.
Load the empty one up in your vehicle & find a propane filling station for at least 1.00 to 2.00 cut in price.
I ended up doing this.


That is a really good idea.

Last year I installed a Tankless Hot Water heater. Thing works great however the last fill up of propane cost me $3.18 a gallon. Which is more expensive than the electric one I was running before.