Quadra Fire Classic Bay 1200 Insert convection blower issue

[Ted D]

I have a 4 year old 1200i that functions properly with the exception of the convection blower.
The stove fires and feeds properly, but once it reaches temperature the convection blower won't come on.

I've replaced snap disc #1, and verified the control panel is operating properly.

If I manually close the blower circuit, the blower runs.

Not sure what else to check.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[DMKNLD]

Hey Ted, and welcome to this fine forum !

When you say you manually closed the blower circuit, I assume you jumped the two purple wires together that go to the #1 snap disc and got the blower to turn on ? If so, then you should verify that the female electrical spade connections on the wires are making good contact with the male connectors on the snap disc. Sometimes it just takes gently squeezing the female spade connectors a bit with a needle nose pliers to make a better connection with the snap disc. Or as one poster recently found, the connection from the wire to the spade connector had deteriorated, which was an easy fix to crimp a new female spade connector onto the wire.

You're sure you bought the correct snap disc replacement with the correct temp parameters? I've also heard of a few cheap Chinese-made Quad snap disc knock-offs that were bad 'out of the box'. You can test the snap disc by gently heating it up with a candle to confirm that it "snaps", indicating the circuit has closed and that the disc is working as it should. Here's a how-to video that describes and shows this.

You're sure your stove is getting up to the temp needed to close the #1 snap disc circuit ? Your flame is brisk, yellow to white in color, with the correct fuel feed set rate? Your exhaust plenum and venting are clear of fly ash? If your stoves exhaust pathway is ash obstructed, or your door seals are bad, or the fire pot holes are clogged up you won't get optimum airflow through the fire pot, thus the stove may not be getting up to the operating temps it needs to kick the convection blower on.

Finally, are you burning decent pellets ? I mistakenly bought horrible quality "dirt in a bag" pellets my first year of pellet stove ownership, and the convection blower fan was off more than it was on that winter due to the poor heat output of the pellets. All just stuff to check before you throw stove parts at a problem that more often than not - about 75% of the time it is reported - ends up being an ash obstruction or a pellet quality issue that is causing the problem.

Check that stuff, and report back OK ?

Regards, DK

 

[Peterfield]

I have a 4 year old 1200i that functions properly with the exception of the convection blower.
The stove fires and feeds properly, but once it reaches temperature the convection blower won't come on.

I've replaced snap disc #1, and verified the control panel is operating properly.

If I manually close the blower circuit, the blower runs.

Not sure what else to check.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks

A thorough cleaning has solved a lot of problems with a lot of stoves.

 

[kappel15]

Another thing is to make sure you are not tightening the snap disc too much when installing it. Quad had a lot of problems back a ways with these discs being tightened too tight by their suppliers, making them not work. kap

 

[Ted D]

Hey Ted, and welcome to this fine forum !

When you say you manually closed the blower circuit, I assume you jumped the two purple wires together that go to the #1 snap disc and got the blower to turn on ? If so, then you should verify that the female electrical spade connections on the wires are making good contact with the male connectors on the snap disc. Sometimes it just takes gently squeezing the female spade connectors a bit with a needle nose pliers to make a better connection with the snap disc. Or as one poster recently found, the connection from the wire to the spade connector had deteriorated, which was an easy fix to crimp a new female spade connector onto the wire.

You're sure you bought the correct snap disc replacement ? I've heard of a few cheap Chinese-made knock-offs that were bad 'out of the box'. You can test the snap disc by gently heating it up with a candle to confirm that it "snaps", indicating the circuit has closed and that the disc is working as it should. Here's a how-to video that describes and shows this.

You're sure your stove is getting up to the temp needed to close the #1 snap disc circuit ? Your flame is brisk, yellow to white in color, with the correct fuel feed set rate? Your exhaust plenum and venting are clear of fly ash? If your stoves exhaust pathway is ash obstructed, or your door seals are bad, or the fire pot holes are clogged up you won't get optimum airflow through the fire pot, thus the stove may not be getting up to the operating temps it needs to kick the convection blower on.

Finally, are you burning decent pellets ? I mistakenly bought horrible quality "dirt in a bag" pellets my first year of pellet stove ownership, and the convection blower fan was off more than it was on that winter due to the poor heat output of the pellets. All just stuff to check before you throw stove parts at a problem that more often than not - about 75% of the time it is reported - ends up being an ash obstruction or a pellet quality issue that is causing the problem.

Check that stuff, and report back OK ?

Regards, DK

Thank you for the helpful information DK, I will report back once I take another crack at getting the stove operating.

TD

 

[Lake Girl]

Welcome to the forum Ted ... DMKNLD seems to have you on the right path. I know I've had issues with the spade connections before on my stove. kap has a good point too on potential to install snap disc too tight ... never thought about it in relation to the snap discs.

 

[Ted D]

Hey Ted, and welcome to this fine forum !

When you say you manually closed the blower circuit, I assume you jumped the two purple wires together that go to the #1 snap disc and got the blower to turn on ? If so, then you should verify that the female electrical spade connections on the wires are making good contact with the male connectors on the snap disc. Sometimes it just takes gently squeezing the female spade connectors a bit with a needle nose pliers to make a better connection with the snap disc. Or as one poster recently found, the connection from the wire to the spade connector had deteriorated, which was an easy fix to crimp a new female spade connector onto the wire.

You're sure you bought the correct snap disc replacement with the correct temp parameters? I've also heard of a few cheap Chinese-made Quad snap disc knock-offs that were bad 'out of the box'. You can test the snap disc by gently heating it up with a candle to confirm that it "snaps", indicating the circuit has closed and that the disc is working as it should. Here's a how-to video that describes and shows this.

You're sure your stove is getting up to the temp needed to close the #1 snap disc circuit ? Your flame is brisk, yellow to white in color, with the correct fuel feed set rate? Your exhaust plenum and venting are clear of fly ash? If your stoves exhaust pathway is ash obstructed, or your door seals are bad, or the fire pot holes are clogged up you won't get optimum airflow through the fire pot, thus the stove may not be getting up to the operating temps it needs to kick the convection blower on.

Finally, are you burning decent pellets ? I mistakenly bought horrible quality "dirt in a bag" pellets my first year of pellet stove ownership, and the convection blower fan was off more than it was on that winter due to the poor heat output of the pellets. All just stuff to check before you throw stove parts at a problem that more often than not - about 75% of the time it is reported - ends up being an ash obstruction or a pellet quality issue that is causing the problem.

Check that stuff, and report back OK ?

Regards, DK

OK, I've checked everything out, the stove was cleaned recently and looks good. The pellets are Turman which I've used for years with no issues; the current batch is good. I did check the new snap disc I bought per your video, and it did not snap, i.e., I did not hear any snap, nor feel anything as I held the snap disk to a candle with needle nose pliers. So it may be that I have a bad disc. I will buy another snap disc. Do you have a recommended resource for snap discs?

Thanks,

TD

 

[kappel15]

If the one you have is new, I would take it back to dealer and get another one. Otherwise any Quad dealer should have one, or go on line. kap

 

[DMKNLD]

OK, I've checked everything out, the stove was cleaned recently and looks good. The pellets are Turman which I've used for years with no issues; the current batch is good. I did check the new snap disc I bought per your video, and it did not snap, i.e., I did not hear any snap, nor feel anything as I held the snap disk to a candle with needle nose pliers. So it may be that I have a bad disc. I will buy another snap disc. Do you have a recommended resource for snap discs?

Thanks,

TD

Hey Ted, you *should* hear / feel it snap if it's working right when you heat it up, then it should snap again after it cools down. Not very often they are bad 'out of the box' but I have heard of it happening. Make sure you have the right part, which is # 230-0470 for your insert, as the Classic Bay Free Standing requires a different #1 snap disc.

You can test the snap disc for resistance with a continuity checker or multi-meter if you have it. I use alligator clipped jumper wires to connect the snap disc terminals to the multi-meter probes. It doesn't matter which snap disc terminal the red or black meter probes go to.

Or get a buddy to hold the snap disc with pliers, and while they hold it over the candle you can hold the multi-meter probes against the disc terminals.

With the multi-meter you set the meter to resistance / ohms. When the #1 snap disc is cold the multi-meter should read open or infinity on the ohms scale, and when heated up the switch should close, ie 'snap' and read no ohms. As the video notes, this will be the opposite when checking the #2 and #3 snap discs, as they are normally let the power through unless there is an over-fire / overheat situation.

As far as I know all the #3 snap discs that mount on the back side of the auger tube have the manual reset tab in between the switch terminals, as do some #2 replacement snap discs. My #2 disc doesn't have a reset tab, but I believe they have a finite number of times they'll 'snap' before they eventually crap out. I've never had to replace any of mine, so I'm guessing they are the originals that came with the prior owner of our farmhouse.

Post back again on how it goes with the replacement snap disc. Regards, DK

 

[Ted D]

Hey Ted, you *should* hear / feel it snap if it's working right when you heat it up, then it should snap again after it cools down. Not very often they are bad 'out of the box' but I have heard of it happening. Make sure you have the right part, which is # 230-0470 for your insert, as the Classic Bay Free Standing requires a different #1 snap disc.

You can test the snap disc for resistance with a continuity checker or multi-meter if you have it. I use alligator clipped jumper wires to connect the snap disc terminals to the multi-meter probes. It doesn't matter which snap disc terminal the red or black meter probes go to.

Or get a buddy to hold the snap disc with pliers, and while they hold it over the candle you can hold the multi-meter probes against the disc terminals.

With the multi-meter you set the meter to resistance / ohms. When the #1 snap disc is cold the multi-meter should read open or infinity on the ohms scale, and when heated up the switch should close, ie 'snap' and read no ohms. As the video notes, this will be the opposite when checking the #2 and #3 snap discs, as they are normally let the power through unless there is an over-fire / overheat situation.

As far as I know all the #3 snap discs that mount on the back side of the auger tube have the manual reset tab in between the switch terminals, as do some #2 replacement snap discs. My #2 disc doesn't have a reset tab, but I believe they have a finite number of times they'll 'snap' before they eventually crap out. I've never had to replace any of mine, so I'm guessing they are the originals that came with the prior owner of our farmhouse.

Post back again on how it goes with the replacement snap disc. Regards, DK

Thanks DK, been away for a week and will conduct the testing this week. I appreciate the details and will respond back. TD

 

[Ted D]

Thanks DK, been away for a week and will conduct the testing this week. I appreciate the details and will respond back. TD

I checked the snap disc with a multi-meter, and both the new one and the original are working. I installed the new one, made sure it was not installed to tight and that the connectors were tight. I also verified power was live, passing from the snap disc to the blower motor circuit, but it still does not come on once the stove is at temperature.

Is it possible there is an issue with the blower motor, that permits it to turn on when the circuit is manually made active, but won't turn on when activated by the stove controls?

Thanks,

TD

 

[DMKNLD]

Hey Ted,

There should be 110v power to the #1 snap disc all the time, with the disc switch closing once the firebox temp reaches 125 degrees, that then allows power to go to the convection blower. By 'manually made active' do you mean you jumpered the two purple wires together that go to the #1 snap disc and the convection fan turned on ? DK

 

[Ted D]

Hey Ted,

There should be 110v power to the #1 snap disc all the time, with the disc switch closing once the firebox temp reaches 125 degrees, that then allows power to go to the convection blower. By 'manually made active' do you mean you jumpered the two purple wires together that go to the #1 snap disc and the convection fan turned on ? DK

Yes, in my previous testing I had jumpered the purple wires together and the fan motor ran. That's the part that confuses me, as I would think that either the fan motor runs, or does not run at all.

 

[DMKNLD]

So it sounds like your wiring and the blower motor are OK, and your snap disc(s) check out OK. Yes, normally the convection blower either gets power to it or it doesn't, assuming the blower motor is good.

Are you sure your stove is getting up to the operating temps to close the snap disc and turn on the convection fan ? Do you get a good brisk yellow white flame versus a lazy orange flame, that would indicate a burn or airflow issue ?

 

[kappel15]

IF the stove was getting hot enough, and the Conv. fan didn't come on, the #2 snap disc should trip and shut auger off as stove is getting too hot. Are we waiting long enough for stove to get to temp? You checked the discs after heating them, and you had continuity? kap

 

[Ted D]

So it sounds like your wiring and the blower motor are OK, and your snap disc(s) check out OK. Yes, normally the convection blower either gets power to it or it doesn't, assuming the blower motor is good.

Are you sure your stove is getting up to the operating temps to close the snap disc and turn on the convection fan ? Do you get a good brisk yellow white flame versus a lazy orange flame, that would indicate a burn or airflow issue ?

Yes. the flame is good, stove gets hot. I inserted a temperature probe behind snap disc #1 in the cavity between it and the stove shell and the temperature was well above 125 degrees before I shut the stove off.

 

[Ted D]

IF the stove was getting hot enough, and the Conv. fan didn't come on, the #2 snap disc should trip and shut auger off as stove is getting too hot. Are we waiting long enough for stove to get to temp? You checked the discs after heating them, and you had continuity? kap

I have let the stove run for about 20 minutes and the flame is good. The exterior vents where the air should blow through get very hot after this period of time. You raise an interesting point about snap disc #2, as it does not trip the auger off. The stove keeps running and after the 20 minutes or so waiting for the blower to start I manually turn the stove off at the thermostat. So it does not overheat. I have not tested snap disc #2. Could this be contributing to the issue?

 

[kappel15]

No .It's function is a safety feature to shut feed off if stove gets too hot for some reason. I would double check snap disc #1. Heat it and see if you can feel or hear it snap closed. When it does this, do a continuity test on spades to see if they are good. Only other option is to replace the connections on purple wires.

 

[DMKNLD]

After reading the reviews in this year's Pellet Reviews section and in some of this year's forum discussions, several people commented that this year's batch of Turman's weren't as hot as previous years, and were longer on average than past year's batches. You said you waited 20 mins for the convection blower to turn on before shutting down the thermostat. My Quad typically takes about that amount of time from a dead cold start-up on the medium setting to get up to the snap disc temp, longer if I'm burning less hot pellets or for whatever reason the stove isn't burning at peak efficiency. So I'm just wondering if there is a possibility that you're burning less hot pellets that are longer, thus fewer of them get fed into the fire pot for each auger cycle, that perhaps this is delaying your convection blower start-up interval?

Not trying to be a PITA, and I know you're not a first year pellet 'newbie', but I'm just thinking there is really no apparent mechanical reason that your convection blower isn't kicking on, from everything you have reported. Running it WAO (wide azz open) on the high setting at a wide open feed rate for 25 min may be worth trying, IMO, just as 'process of exclusion' anyway. The worst it can do, *theoretically*, is trip the #2 snap disc, which typically will self-reset once it cools off, assuming yours doesn't have the manual reset tab. We're reaching Ted, I know, but your problem has been a puzzler ! DK

 

[Ted D]

No .It's function is a safety feature to shut feed off if stove gets too hot for some reason. I would double check snap disc #1. Heat it and see if you can feel or hear it snap closed. When it does this, do a continuity test on spades to see if they are good. Only other option is to replace the connections on purple wires.

Thanks I'll recheck snap disc #1 again, as well as the wiring. TD

 

[Ted D]

After reading the reviews in this year's Pellet Reviews section and in some of this year's forum discussions, several people commented that this year's batch of Turman's weren't as hot as previous years, and were longer on average than past year's batches. You said you waited 20 mins for the convection blower to turn on before shutting down the thermostat. My Quad typically takes about that amount of time from a dead cold start-up on the medium setting to get up to the snap disc temp, longer if I'm burning less hot pellets or for whatever reason the stove isn't burning at peak efficiency. So I'm just wondering if there is a possibility that you're burning less hot pellets that are longer, thus fewer of them get fed into the fire pot for each auger cycle, that perhaps this is delaying your convection blower start-up interval?

Not trying to be a PITA, and I know you're not a first year pellet 'newbie', but I'm just thinking there is really no apparent mechanical reason that your convection blower isn't kicking on, from everything you have reported. Running it WAO (wide azz open) on the high setting at a wide open feed rate for 25 min may be worth trying, IMO, just as 'process of exclusion' anyway. The worst it can do, *theoretically*, is trip the #2 snap disc, which typically will self-reset once it cools off, assuming yours doesn't have the manual reset tab. We're reaching Ted, I know, but your problem has been a puzzler ! DK

Thanks DK, it has been a puzzler indeed. The pellets I'm using are the same ones I used last year, had a number of bags left. I'll let the stove run longer as suggested, and check snap disc #1 again and see if things improve. I appreciate all the help! TD

 

[Ted D]

Thanks DK, it has been a puzzler indeed. The pellets I'm using are the same ones I used last year, had a number of bags left. I'll let the stove run longer as suggested, and check snap disc #1 again and see if things improve. I appreciate all the help! TD

DK, well I am happy to report success. I ran the stove for about 40 minutes and now we have hot air blowing! Your assessment about the Turmans being cooler than previous years may be it. I appreciate your and the other posters help!

 

[DMKNLD]

Great to hear that Ted! I found a past forum thread from a CB insert owner who had the same issue as yours. Someone else on that thread posted that ash can collect behind where the snap disc mounts and apparently insulates it enough that it can prolong the fan start up interval. There was also a note that at some point Quad moved the location of the #1 CB snap disc to a hotter place on the firebox wall.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/classic-bay-convection-blower-wont-turn-on.100179/

You may want to consider swapping your OEM disc for an adjustable temp one so the fan comes on sooner. I'll try to find the link for the one I put in my Castile. Anyway, glad you're running again and glad we could help out. Warm and happy new year to you and yours. DK

 

[Ted D]

Good to know DK, Same to you, and if you find that link that would be great. TD

 

[DMKNLD]

Good to know DK, Same to you, and if you find that link that would be great. TD

Here's the one I installed in my Quad, that can be adjusted to turn on at a lower temp, so you don't waste all that heat going out the venting before your convection blower turns on. It may have a different hole configuration than your OEM snap disc so you might need to drill a new hole to be able to mount it flush.

http://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-Adjustable-Fan-Switch-6UEE1?opr=APPD&pbi=4E116

Cheers, DK