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Quadrafire's orders backed up?

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by jc8367, Jul 25, 2008.

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  1. stejus

    stejus Minister of Fire

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    I work in East Providence and there's a dealer in Seekonk MA. Are you using the dealer to do your install or going with independant contractor? I would like to get mine started as well. I can predict with a certain amount of confidence that oil will start to rise again after labor day due to hurricane threats, mid east uncertainty, reserve levels lower than expected; higher demand because of a cold winter and the list goes on…

    I did some simple math where a ton of pellets equals 120 gallons of heating oil. At a market price of $310 for a ton of pellets, heating oil would have to have a market price of around $2.60 a gallon to be equal. Those days, my friend, are long gone.

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  2. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    Sounds like you're not affected/worried about global warming. This will be a big disappointment for Al Gore.

    We can all hope the current drop in crude oil will hold and heating oil will be about what it was last year....way too much, but not $5 a gallon. Still I support your economics, "stejus", but am disappointed to see pellets have risen to the over $300 level per ton.

    Given the drop in oil prices due at least in part to the lower demand for gasoline I'm sure if we can get government out of the way a put a "full court press" on oil drilling where the oil is and on nuclear plus renewable electric energy sources, we'll see more drops in the cost of heating oil.
  3. DPRH-47

    DPRH-47 New Member

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    Quadra Fire and Harman are now owned by the same company. Both sections of the company sell Early in large quantities to some dealers. Therefore new orders by other dealers can not be filled until those Early Buy orders are delivered. So check with several dealers before giving up.
  4. stejus

    stejus Minister of Fire

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    Interesting statistic in the USA Today. USA represents 7% of the world population and we consume 25% of the oil supply. With Asia’s growing demand for oil, and perhaps a USA decrease in oil use, we may see a slight reduction in price. We have several years ahead of us before we start shaving the 25% oil consumption down. More efficient burning of oil and gas will not move the number enough. We simply need alternate fuel sources to say good bye to BIG OIL or drill in our own back yead. Again, this will take years before we see any benefit.

    The reason pellets have gone up is simple. Transportation costs, operations costs and the decrease in the housing industry has decreased the amount of wood available for pellets. Who’s to blame? Our Government for creating the housing slump and BIG OIL for putting a dent in our cash flow. Once the economy gets back on track, more houses are built, more furniture is sold and the supply of raw materials for pellets is widely available bringing down the price.
  5. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    I guess it doesn't help to remind you that government created the housing boom also (besides creating the slump)....and that our own selfishness is responsible even more than government is?

    I can say, without hesitation, that I did not borrow one cent of money at those low interest rates during the housing boom.

    This stuff is all more complicated that we like to think. Most of us will agree that having more alternatives for home heating is better. But the statistic regarding the 25% says something BIG...and I wonder if we REALLY understand it. What is says is that we are using too much energy...not just oil, but too much of just about everything....maybe pellets included! The point being that heating a mcmansion using a lot of pellets can be just as bad as heating it with a lot of oil or gas. If getting the economy back in shape means building more vast burbs filled with energy hogging houses, then I don't think it will really help the problem in the long run. I think we have to set the goal of using VASTLY less energy than we do now.....whatever type of energy that it is.

    As to the oil here, hopefully that article also stated the incredibly low percentage of the worlds oil left under our feet and our shores......any way you look at it, that is only a finger in the dyke, and one that is already in there (we are now fully exploiting our reserves in terms of available drilling equip, etc.).

    Big Oil is not the problem as much as BIG cars, BIG houses, SMALL public transportation systems, BIG military budgets, BIG stores full of junk, etc.
  6. in-control

    in-control New Member

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    I am using the dealer, who has a contractor that works for them. They must take photo's before, during and after of the site for each install before they are paid. Those are QA'ed by the dealer(owner). The site prep and permitting is done by the dealership and the physical install is the contractor. The cost is $500 for the labor to install the unit, chimney liner etc.. and $150 for the dealer to manage to whole gig including the town permitting. I am also getting the Mt. Vernon AE insert and its a heavy beast, that and the whole chimmney thing, 30+feet, is well work the fee.

    I am paying $268/Ton for Premium Hardwood Barefoot Pellets out of Pellets direct in Oxford MA. That is for a December delivery. I will be paying a $70 delivery fee - right into my garage. They also provide annual cleaning services so I will compare their price to the dealer. I like them becasue all they do is support pellet stoves and seem to really know their stuff. http://www.pelletsdirect.com/index.htm

    As far as costs comparision go I use the pellet institues comparison chart, I know how much oil contracts are going for now. If I can cut my Oil consumption down 50%, from 900 to 450 gallons I will be a happy camper. That 450 would have cost me $2120. Once I subtract my actual pellet use I will be able to figure out my ROI (return on investment).
  7. DiggerJim

    DiggerJim Feeling the Heat

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    Interesting thought - but is it really true? What is the "right" amount? Should we only use the same amount of the world's energy consumption as we have population? Or should we consume the energy that's equivalent to our share of the world's equivalent of the GNP? I'd argue that I have a right to use more energy than an equivalent body sitting in the deserts of outer Mongolia - the medicines that are improving all of our lives (and lifespans) are coming from Phizer, not from Mongolia...creativity, production, productivity, etc. are all skewed toward the U.S. and not the vast numbers of people who consume less energy.

    My $.02 anyway.
    Jim
  8. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    I am a fiscal conservative and I "walk the walk", I save more than I spend, not looking for a bail out from the USG because I purchased more house than I can afford...

    How far down does the global warming bunch want the USA to go: Pakistan or Zimbabwe? Their energy use per capita must be quite low. If we go there we'll not have to worry anymore about illegal immigration. Always a silver lining, one could say.

    I'd much prefer our government getting out of the personal management business, including rescues. They keep it up and they'll rescue us from a Recession with a Depression. The economy will not be saved by more government debt, neither will high oil prices.

    If we drill and get more oil in the pipe at least it will bring down the balance of trade deficit, even if we continue to buy the same amount of oil from off-shore, we'll be selling into it too.
  9. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    It seems like a lot of people have a YES-NO world view - you either drill everywhere all at once, or you either have a high standard of living or you go back to a cave. It's simply not like that. I can only suppose that this type of view comes from reading some propaganda....

    To act like there are only two sides - the "global warming crew" and the "drill and use up every drop while I am alive" proponents makes it impossible to intelligently discuss the issues. There are as many "sides" as there are people with opinions...no more, and no less!

    It is interesting that some of the same folks who want to SCREW BIG OIL (their words, not mine), also want to give BIG OIL the rights to drill in all of our backyards and take the oil which is ours and sell it to the highest bidder.....doesn't make sense, but not much does these days....

    But as far as energy use, consider the "middle way". We could easily use 1/2 the energy we do now with almost no change in lifestyle. In fact, many countries on the planet use 1/2 the energy per capita as we do and have as high (or actually higher) of a standard of living than we do. That does not mean they have bigger cars, just better qualify of life as measured by the usual quotients (happiness, hours worked, health care, life span, crime rate, environment, etc.)

    There is no one in their right mind...and I mean that - who cannot see that conservation and efficiency (meaning the same thing as using less energy) is the quickest and easiest way to replace some of our fossil fuel use. We could cut back 10% almost instantly...and as much as 50% over a couple decades as we replace cars, upgrade and build newer houses, etc.

    Of course, I agree that we should continue to exploit fossil fuels in the quest to develop the technologies which will follow them....I just differ from some in that I don't think we each have the right to drive 10MPG cars when present technology can produce those which get 40+ MPG.

    Getting back to pellets, I see no good reason why anyone would want to burn 8 tons a year, if they could burn only 3 and heat the house. That is conservation and efficiency, and I don't see any relation to that and living in a cave.
  10. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    Right on, we're not really as far apart as some short post suggest.
  11. cac4

    cac4 New Member

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    yep, well..."big oil's" job isn't to provide us with independence, or affordable oil. Their job is to make a profit, and they do that by acquiring a product at once price, and selling it at a higher price. As long as its cheaper for them to buy it from "somewhere else" than it is to drill/pump it themselves, thats what they'll do. All this "oh, we need to be able to drill in more places, but the hippy-dippies won't let us" is crap. they could be drilling in lots and lots of places now, if they wanted to. They have tons of leases that they aren't using. Our friend from Alaska posted recently that they're sitting on vast amounts of NG up there, and aren't doing anything to try to distribute it...not cost effective. for them. The people there (and everywhere) will pay the high price for gas that comes from "somewhere else", because...they haven't got any $%$$ing choice. We can't just say, "ya know what? that's too expensive, I'm just not going to buy it" like we can with a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread, because our whole lives are built around the existence of ~cheap oil~. Thats what allows me to live "here" and work "there". I can't just quit my job, and get one "here"....there aren't any. and I can't "just sell my house" and move "there"; that would be more expensive than the ever rising gas price.
    So how much does gas have to cost before people will start to conserve? apparently, its 4 bucks. (or, thereabouts). :) MBTA is now reporting "record ridership". As the gas has been steadily and rapidly rising over the past few years, they've been saying that consumption has been going up, right along with it. Big oil is thinking, "obviously, these peasants have the money to spend...lets see just how much we can wring out of them". and they keep rising, and rising, until eventually, somebody says "uncle", and starts riding the bus. now, consumption is down (a little), so gas has come down, (a little)....so, "there's your bogey". "4 bucks". ;-P
  12. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    $5 would really do the job!

    It's like that little devil on your shoulder...is saying "hey, I like this $3.75 gas" and the other is saying "hey, if it comes down too far, the new solar, wind and alternative energy boom will peter out"......

    Then, in a flash, you actually understand that your (and my) opinion have very little effect on it. Neither does that of some "hippy dippy", who, BTW, does not even exist. I'm probably as close as you'll get - a commune dweller from the 60's who burned wood in a tent and had my children at home with free midwives delivering them.

    BTW, my attorney-engineer daughter, who is working for the Sierra Club, is heavily involved in working with states across the country---yes, state governments....who want to implement sane energy policies for the future. Many states have realized that the Federal leadership in these issues has not existed, so they are taking matters into their own hands...and we're not talking hippies - she is working with, for instance, the state of Mississippi!
  13. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    Let's not forget that a drilling company wants to focus its high cost drilling investment where they know/believe there is oil, not somewhere across the street because they have a lease there. That's like the guy looking for his lost quarter under the street light because the light is better (night time too), never mind he lost it across the street in the dark vacant lot. As for states rights, I believe Alaska has petitioned the USG to open drilling in ANWR, only California (no surprise here) is fighting off shore drilling, or maybe Florida too not sure of its current position. Not to worry about the oil reserves off of Florida's coast, the Chinese will pump that for us, and I'm sure they'll be real careful about oil spills given their shinning record on environment management at home.

    Yes, that's one reason oil profits are so high, they drill/buy where the cost is the lowest...and still we're paying $4 per gallon, and I hope for those heating with oil it isn't $4 there too.
  14. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    OMG your daughter works for sierra club!? makes for some interesting dinner table talk i bet , i know youre proud of her though , and im sure she understands the woodburners side of the story. i for one admire a lot of the work the sierra club does. giver her a pat on the back for me will ya?
  15. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    jerry , thats a beautiful old golden bro. scratch him for me a time or two
  16. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    sg2, thanks. He is a beauty. We used to get comments when walking him, like "stunning"..but not so much now that he's grown old. He still has long "feathers" and nice color and size (big), but is showing his years...aren't we all, I add for myself.
  17. cac4

    cac4 New Member

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    yep. and thats the way it is, in Europe. BUT...their governments have provided them with trains that take you from just about anywhere you might happen to be, to most anywhere you might want to go, in a reasonable amount of time.
    We have cheap(er) gas, and our gov't makes aircraft carriers. and gets involved in protracted foreign conflagrations. not that I have anything against aircraft carriers. almost made a career out of working on one....but there's a price. and it seems that we can't have it both ways.
    . well...its a free country. but that sounds kind of dangerous, to me. all of it! ;-)

    sounds to me like the hippies are alive and well. and hey, I use the term affectionately, not as a smear. "tree hugger", "hippie", "lefty" or, the ultimate good-word-turned-into-a-swear-by-the-right: "liberal". :bug: {gotta scrinch up your nose and say it with a real sneeeer, like Rush Limbaugh 8-/ }
    you know---kinda like the way black guys can use the "n" word freely, amongst themselves, but no one else can. ;)
  18. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    there are no dogs like old dogs, i love em all
  19. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Mississippi, the perennial hot bed of progressive thinking and government. :lol:
  20. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, it's a bit of a bummer for me, since I forked over for college and law school with the following terms - "if you make the big bucks, you have to pay me back...if you do public service, you don't".....guess what? I ain't getting paid back since she is working for about 1/6 of what she could make in the corporate world.

    As to dinner table conversation, it is really interesting now since she is boots on the ground on the energy side of things (at the sierra club) now.....now she finally knows what I have been talking about all these years. Maybe I'll get her ear and help make energy policy!

    Don't forget,. the Sierra club is responsible for EPA approved stoves!

    And even their "Mr. Green" approves of stoves:
    "Hey Mr. Green,
    What's the most ecofriendly way to feed a fireplace? —Joan in Santa Fe, New Mexico

    Fueling your fire with sustainably harvested or dead trees may be the best option, but be sure to ignite them in an EPA-approved fireplace insert or wood stove to slash those nasty particulate emissions."
  21. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    Some of the 501C(3) "Charitable" organization I know a little about pay rather high wages, higher than industry, at least for engineers. I don't know about attorney-engineers (they are patent attorneys in my experience). In fact I know one engineering society that has been hiring and expanding throughout the downturn in technology employment.

    What comes out of EPA wood stoves, hot fresh air? There must be carbon coming out too, and I don't buy the idea that we're using that freed carbon up by growing replacement trees. We can grow trees to take care of the carbon from burning oil too...in fact that's what I do, I've got a few acres of trees, and heat with electricity (Nuclear and Coal), and some firewood. My trees help use some of the carbon from neighbors' oil furnaces.
  22. stanleyjohn

    stanleyjohn Feeling the Heat

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    Id like to put my 2 cents in! First of all webmaster makes Alot of sense.Why do you need a Big suv or truck to drive back and forth to work or kids to school while a small compact car will do just as good a job.I have a prius and ave over 50 mpg and still get people asking me why i bought such a crappy car.Why do you need a 3000 sq ft home four or less people when a 1500 sq ft would do just fine.Why do some still think having large families is a good thing when the world is having a hard time supplying enough resources for the present population.We may find solutions for the short term and a few generations,but if we dont change on how we live in life!we better hope there is other planets we can travel too to relieve the population and resource problems we face today.To stay with the original topic!all i can say that in time the stove manufactures will catch up with the demand.
  23. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Jerry the carbon neutral argument for wood burning is that the carbon in the trees is going to be released into the atmosphere by the trees rotting anyway or it is released into the air by burning the wood. Carbon in fossil fuels would stay locked up in the ground if we didn't pump them out of the ground an burn them thereby releasing the carbon into the atmosphere.

    Myself I burn wood to stay temperature neutral. Not carbon neutral. I don't like to be cold.
  24. slls

    slls Minister of Fire

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    Is any body getting the Quadrafire they ordered, when ordered and when received.
  25. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    Yes, but that was way back in June of 2008 ;-)

    As for using it, not yet, and I look forward to the warmth and ambiance of the wood fire in a few months - hope everything works, not tested yet. And, back to the point of being "green", even with 5 acres I doubt that my land will replace the 3-4 cords of wood I'd burn if I heated mostly with wood. I'll only burn about 2 cords, as supplemental heat.

    Too, better than half of the wood doesn't come from my land anyway, it is cut down somewhere else.
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