Question about insulation...

[mgh-pa]

With the heating season upon us soon, I'm going to ask this question again (I mentioned this last year). Here's my situation. I have an older wood stove in the basement (next year will see an upgrade) with R-19 between the joists. The house is a technically a tri-level with the kitchen/dining room/foyer being directly above the basement. Last year, our first year in the house, the wood stove would keep the basement really warm, but very little heat transitioned to the upstairs. Later, we added floor registers and returns and that seemed to help a little, but still not what I would like. We are in the process of cutting and building a stairway into the basement from the upstairs (right now the only access is from the outside). I'm hoping this opening will help transfer the heat a little better this year, but I'm curious as to whether I should remove the insulation as well? It's a lot more work seeing as I have to rip down the MDF which the previous owner did a poor job of installing (LOTS of nails). The other factor that is affecting the heat transfer is that the chimney is about 90% external, and the basement is block wall which absorbs much of the heat.

With that all being said, what suggestions does everyone have at this point to aid in the movement of heat up the main floor?

 

[burntime]

If you create that kind of opening that a stair would need I would guess you could blow the cold air downthe stairwell and a lot of heat would rise. That is the normal path anyway. Cold wants to drop and heat goes up. Give it a try. It has to be better at a bare minimum...

 

[EatenByLimestone]

R-19 would stop most of the heat from rising. The stairway opening should help a lot. Maybe you could use the R-19 from the joists and set it in studs placed along the walls.

Matt

 

[nate379]

Heat doesn't rise.

 

[firefighterjake]

Heat doesn't rise.

?????

More explanation needed here. . . . I'm just a dumb firefighter/wood burner, but the one thing I do know is that the hottest area of a room on fire or a room with a woodstove almost always is the closer you get to the ceiling since heated air tends to rise . . . or so I thought . . . as I said . . . I could be wrong since I'm just a dumb firefighter.

 

[semipro]

A lot of that heat will probably move upstairs via the new stairway. It depends on how the heated air moves along the basement ceiling. I'd put the stairway in and see what happens. Its pretty impressive how you can feel the difference between the cold air moving down and the hot air moving up our stairway leading up from the room where our stove is. That is, your head feels warm and your feet cold as you walk the stairs. If after installing the stairs you want more air circulation you may be able to move some cold air down into the basement somehow via your registers or the stairway as someone else mentioned.

 

[shawneyboy]

I have a single stairwell to the lower level where the stove is installed. In order to circulate air I also have 3 cold air returen floor registers. The warm air moves up the stairs with the cooler air falling down through the registers. My house is rectangular with a return basicly in the middle and one on either end (as far as I could go) all returns in ceiling are in room that contains stove. We get good heating in upstairs thus far. The registers were origanaly in for a Kero-monitor heater.

 

[basswidow]

If possible - can you cut a large grate directly over the stove ? to allow the heat to move upstairs?

I would also consider moving the stove upstairs - if that's not too major.

Moving the floor insulation to the walls might help some. How close is the stairway cut to the basement stove? Heat will move up the stairway cut.

What is your heating system in the house? Is there any duct work and a heater in the basement? If so, you could open the return from the basement and run the blower to take basement heat upstairs.

 

[billb3]

MDF on the basement ceiling ?
Really ?
Wonderful way to feed a fire.


The stairway should help.
Problem will be if you add a door.
Louvers help a little, but a french door with the top open could be better.

If the stairway is in the middle of the house you might want to blow air down any vents towards the stove (might need firestops vents) or just down, at ends of the house .

We had a door at the bottom of the stairs on a split level and the door had to be open all the time.
(except Summer)
Even with open vents between floors.



I'd lave the insulation seeing its already there.
It might be helping with any drafts from leaks at the ends of the joists.
( and the mice gotta live somewhere)

 

[madrone]

Heat doesn't rise.

But hot air does, and it will, right up the stairwell. It makes some sense to insulate the walls and not the floor above a basement when the basement is finished living space. At the same time, even if you leave it a great deal of that hot air will rise up the stairwell, regardless of any corrections of terminology by Nate. :cheese: So the radiant heat will still go in all directions and be insulated from the rooms above, but some heated air will end up there anyway.
BTW, It's been mentioned on this site a number of times that it may be a fire code violation to add registers between floors. If I'm understanding correctly...

 

[mgh-pa]

Here's a diagram I made last year of my setup:

The new stairway is going to be cut in line with the stairs shown on the diagram. I've also indicated where the returns/register is in relation to everything else.

The stairwell will have a door at the bottom, but it will remain open during the heating season. I checked with my insurance agent and local codes, and the floor registers/returns were ok, but like I said, they weren't helping a whole lot. Our heating system besides this is electric baseboard and a new gas fireplace we just finished this spring. No existing duct work in the house to tie in to.

As for the MDF, don't ask. The previous homeowner was a moron...enough said.

 

[madrone]

As for the MDF, don't ask. The previous homeowner was a moron...enough said.

Must be the same guy who lived here...

 

[semipro]

Here's a diagram I made last year of my setup:


The new stairway is going to be cut in line with the stairs shown on the diagram. I've also indicated where the returns/register is in relation to everything else.

The stairwell will have a door at the bottom, but it will remain open during the heating season. I checked with my insurance agent and local codes, and the floor registers/returns were ok, but like I said, they weren't helping a whole lot. Our heating system besides this is electric baseboard and a new gas fireplace we just finished this spring. No existing duct work in the house to tie in to.

As for the MDF, don't ask. The previous homeowner was a moron...enough said.

You may want to consider installing a fire damper in your register near the stove. http://tinyurl.com/29n4lfv Basically its a register that closes when a fusible link melts at about 160 degrees F. This helps prevent the fast upward spread of fire.

I think they may even be required by code in some places. I'm considering doing something similar to what you have done so I'm looking into these devices.