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Question for everyone that wants to answer. Oh boy this will fire a lot of people up.

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by kinsmanstoves, Sep 15, 2011.

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  1. DirtyDave

    DirtyDave Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    290
    Loc:
    western wa
    I have to admit this ... the local dealers IMHO in the pugeot sound area of Wash. are the most Greedy, crooked people out there even over car dealers. The price on same stove can vary over 900.00 from store to store on any given day. thier Sales event of 50% off should say 50.00 off raised prices, for this sale. New factory seconds only 100.00 less than the rest. The wife Wants a new stove..she looked at Quads, loves Lopi ( previous Lopi owner) and loves our 94 Whitfield for best drop it and it keeps on working. Costco had a demo for one week. Quad prices were over 2K LESS when bought that week. Honestly She will get either Lopi or Quad come summer if she can find a sweet enough deal, within Or Wa Id area and My work will be go get it and install it after work.

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  2. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    7,157
    Loc:
    Salem NH
    Hi Eric

    I know Harman and Quads are good stoves and provide good heat. Having an electronics background I find that heat and electronics do not mix very well. I do like features and nice electronic functions but not so much to the point that they cause more breakdowns and failures.

    Example 1
    Quad MT Vernon AE optical sensor for sensing the auger turning and relaying the information to their electronic T-Stat.
    The optical sensors do fail from heat and also get greasy dirty.

    Example 2
    The Harman ESP sensor for exhaust
    Another common failure part from dirt and heat.

    The Avalon Astoria made with the Whitfield design has non of these parts. So these parts are nice to have and I luv the electronic T-Stat on the Quad but Auger Jam and TCP Thermocouple failures are too common.

    The Mt Vernon's plastic hopper and corkscrew style auger seem very flimsy. Even the auger motor is small and reverses if there is any pressure applied. I would rather see a heavy cam shaft type auger and all metal construction.

    Also the bottom feed on the Harman and other stoves can be more prone to Auger Jams. On the Englander it is just a matter of time before the lower auger chute builds creasote and the auger stalls and the fire goes out. Can be 3 years if the chute is never hard cleaned. Also the heat warps the impingement plate. I suspect the Harman my have similar issues with the bottom feed auger but not as familiar with them yet.

    So if they can make these stove stronger and more reliable to last many years they would be a winner.
    Funny how so many Enviro EF-2s made for 10 years in the world are still going strong along with Whitfields. These are the stoves we can learn from. However electronics must be proven in the field, even the newer Whitfield optical sensor had problems, that is where more engineering must be done on any electronics for improved reliability!!! Just my 2 cents.
  3. John97

    John97 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    448
    Loc:
    Spring Hill, FL
    I bought a Quad because I will answer anyway because my overall experience seems relevant to what the OP seeks.

    I did some preliminary research online and that seemed to indicate I should look at a Harman or a Quadrafire insert. I was leaning towards the Mt. Vernon. It seemed to have everything I wanted.

    I went to a Harman/Quad dealer first, they steered me away from the Mt. Vernon to an Accentra and gave me a total price that included a $1200 installation. They only sell stoves if they are installing it. Fine, I was going to have them install it anyway.

    I wanted to do some price comparison shopping, so I went to another Harman/Quad dealer. I guess I must not have been dressed well enough, because they didn't treat me like a serious customer. I asked for an installed price and just got general numbers given to me, no details, no written quote. It seemed like I was an inconvenience because I wanted some concrete information. The attitude was that we're going to be the about same price as the other place you already went, so you already know how much you're going to be spending if you decide to do this. Fine, they lost a $5000+ sale.

    Meanwhile, I started lurking here and considered looking at other brands. The Enviro M55C insert caught my eye. I found a local dealer, went there 3X during their advertised hours and the place was locked up and dark each time. Well, that was that... I'm back to Harman/Quad...

    I went to another dealer that was further away, but has a great reputation and had been in business longer than anyone else in the area. They carry Quad and Heatilator, not Harman. Their initial quote for a Mt. Vernon installed was equal to the first dealer's quote for an Accentra instaled. Now, there is a significant price difference between the two units. The higher installation charges from the first dealer are the reason the total numbers ended up the same.

    The first dealer did give my a price on a Mt. Vernon, basic black, no OAK. My actual cost for what I went with is equal to that dollar-wise. However, I'm getting an optional color, the optional decorative cast trim, and the OAK (with installation).

    My Mt. Vernon will be installed five days from today. :)
  4. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    7,157
    Loc:
    Salem NH
    Hi Eric

    Another item I want to mention is the Ignitor.

    Are the Harman 306 watt and Quad 380 watt igniters really necessary?

    When I am trying to be efficient and save energy I switch from a 100 watt light bulb to a 60 watt light bulb that still does the job!!

    Travis Industries in the last few years went from a 250 Watt style cartridge igniter to a 200 watt igniter!! The pellets lights just fine and now their ignitor will always surpass the 2 year warranty!!

    So 380 watts almost double the wattage for an igniter, Sorry that is a big waste of electrical energy and money!!! Sometimes moving the igniter a little closer to the pellets is the solution.

    So that is my igniter rant. Thanks for listening. :)
  5. briansol

    briansol Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,906
    Loc:
    central ct


    I don't know... it was one of 2 inserts they had available, and the other one didn't cover as much sq ft as the lennox did, so i went with that one. hindsight, i should have done more research before buying but I bought at peak stove time back in 2007 when oil was over $5 a gallon and everyone was sold out of everything. Prices went up $500 a week after i bought mine! it was crazy times.
  6. jgrz0610

    jgrz0610 Burning Hunk

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2011
    Messages:
    158
    Loc:
    Eastern CT, Andover
    Harman dealer was a pretentious idiot who couldn't be bothered by my questions. He quoted me $1500 for the chimney liner and another 1200 for install. Went to another place, got a M55, liner, and installation, for same price as Harman P35i, had more BTUS, looked better, cost less, and the dealer took the time to make sure it was what I needed. The biggest issue, beyond anything, is the Harman dealer was, and continues to be, a complete jerk.
  7. subsailor

    subsailor Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,422
    Loc:
    Winthrop, Maine
    I guess I was lucky. My Harman dealer has been great. Like the stove, like the heat, like the service. Have an Englander. The stove does what they say is does. It will throw heat. Uses more pellets, a pain to clean every other day, can't keep the glass clean. But it will throw heat. And I almost think it's quieter than my Harman.
  8. ablejoy

    ablejoy Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    250
    Loc:
    Prescott,Northern, Az
    Quad Castile porcelain finish, recommended by a friend only wish we bought the Mount Vernon. Stove is reliable and there was only one dealer in town when we purchased the stove in 2008
  9. pelletash

    pelletash New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    89
    I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, but I'll throw it out there anyway. I'd love to have a "name brand" stove someday. The M55 insert really catches my eye. For me it was all about the price. I got my USSC 6041 insert for around $2K less than the next closest big name stove. Granted, the Harmans and Quads are more pleasing to the eye and have many more people familiar with them from a service standpoint. I enjoy tinkering and am fairly handy and plan on handling any needed repairs myself, so dealer support wasn't a major concern. I hope one day to step up to the big leagues, but so far am not regretting my decision. I'm staying warm and that's what is most important.
  10. cuznvin

    cuznvin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    Messages:
    244
    Loc:
    Long Island
    The ONLY dealer on Long Island I felt comfortable buying from sold Enviro. I also got great reviews from other people here that bought Enviros. I love the self cleaning feature, high BTU output and look of the stove.
  11. kykel

    kykel Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    417
    Loc:
    long Island
    I looked at the harmon xxv and the quad AE. I loved the look of the Quad and the btus. I called the dealer and was quoted $5000. That thing would have to buy stack and fill itself with pellets for that price. On to the harman. Liked the look but was turned off by the square foot rating witch I believe was 1600 sq ft. Also the dealer wasnt a big fan of heating the house with pellets. More of a room heater in his opinion. Then I stumbled on to the Enviro M55 cast witch looks very similar to the quad and the rest is history. Although I think the other two stoves are good Im happy with my choice. Its got the looks and Btus I was looking for and multifuel to boot
  12. flynfrfun

    flynfrfun Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    703
    Loc:
    Bonney Lake, WA
    Dave, I felt the same way too when I was in the market for a stove. That is until I found Rich at Foothills Fireplace and Grills in Black Diamond. So far he has been great. I knew more about the stoves than the salespeople in the shops. Some couldn't even get the baffle out of the stove (Harman)...I had to show him how. Got sick of the clueless salespeople. Glad I found Rich.
  13. smoke show

    smoke show Guest

    Some stoves ignite more than pellets.
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