I could not imagine these problems happening to the vermont stove company. That thing is one big muther of a casting. Its a big square block of steel you put in your fireplace... One difference was slammer install. I wonder if my 40+ foot chimney is a culprit with the vermont casting... I wonder if I need to close up some air ports like you say you did. This thing seems to be plowing through the wood, and there's not a ton of heat. Still 66 degrees in house (not a single degree of rise), but I have to admit my heater hasn't been running. Then again, its not exactly cold out today. The day with the vsc was 34/25. Today was almost 50.
Questions for Vermont Casting 0044 / 0046 Owners
- Thread starter mnowaczyk
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I think without a liner connected, it's going to be difficult to get a secondary burn reliably with it or any other. Might be interested in:
Doors/glass, middle support bar in the back, from the sounds of things there's not much else that's worth shipping. Connector might be salvagable...
Doors/glass, middle support bar in the back, from the sounds of things there's not much else that's worth shipping. Connector might be salvagable...
mnowaczyk said:
LeonMSPT said:
LeonMSPT:
I looked up my Chimney sweep paperwork (not gospel or scientific data by any means). He wrote that I have 13 x 13 clay liner. With this Vermont Stove 0044 / 0046, do you suggest an 8" liner for my ~40 foot chimney? Is the LARGER 13 x 13 too big and not providing enough velocity for a slow burn? (Would that leed to too much cooling in the chimney?) With a taller chimney, would a smaller liner, or a larger liner make more sense? I understand that a wide liner in a short chimney would have a tendancy to back-draft. With a larger chimney back draft is not typically an issue (I assume). So I would therefore assume a taller chimney can handle a wider opening, not to mention the stonger draft is going to pull the air faster. I've been starting to think that the taller chimneys (with a good clay liner) have less of a need for a full stainless liner... Creosote "buildup" on a smooth clay liner is probably going to (a) be less likely to collect on a smooth clay wall than a bumpy flex liner... I guess with the exception of a well insulated liner being warmer and less likely to cause smoke concensation, and (b) have creosote buildup to a point where it affects air flow.
If there is any credence to that argument (I understand the insulation is a big opposing factor).... Aren't you just using your liner as a Chimney Damper to either slow the flow of the air, or cause it to move at a higher velocity?
Shouldn't the stove damper handle this?
Hey... I clearly need a class on chimney physics. Please don't take my questions the wrong way. I think due to my college days of Chemical Engineering and my lack of desire to just spend some cash without understanding the full system, I've got a real desire to understand the system I'm building. I'd hate to spend thousands to later determine I've built the wrong system.
I'm wondering if I was getting hotter slower fire out of the Vermont Stove Company because the input to the "afterburner" is smaller (only four ~ 1.5" square openings). Maybe this stove is labelled a piece of junk because it won't afterburn fast enough in most shorter chimneys (or even mine when lined). Could the strong draw of my chimney be making the Vermont Stove Company a good performer??? On the other hand... Maybe the fast draw of my chimney with the small afterburner in that Vermont Stove Company would cause the exhaust to come out too fast, possibly not achieving a full burn before leaving the stove.
I need a Chimney physics training course. You'd think there would be some equations we could use for stove-chimney design that would include:
- chimeny height
- chimeny/liner area
- expected stove contant BTU
- sectional area for afterburner
- length of afterburner chamber
- expected or desired air flow rate
Some more complicated items might include:
- interior chimney wall temp (now we are in some serious calculus with an obvious temperture gradient from top to bottom)
- Exterior Temp (= temp of top exterrior of chimney)
- Stove Temp (hopefully a fixed contstant of a desired temp)
People have been burning stuff plenty long enough to have figured this out. I guess it's time for a new post... Maybe I'll call it "system air flow physics". I will do some searches first.
Thanks,
Mike
Just purchased a VC 0046 off of craigslist, looking at this posting I paid way to much. Trying to get it running, but looks like all seals are bad, so working to fix the problem. I am trying to figure out what kind of heat output this stove should have, at this time very little if any is coming from blower (It may be this model was made just for looks). At the same time of buying this insert I made another purchase of a Quadrafire wood stove, great heat output, maybe to much for the garage it went in. Going to take a look at local Quadrafire dealer about wood inserts for the fireplace if this VC 0046 can not be saved.
I got good heat out of my vc last night, but had to really work for it. I loaded it w hardwood about 1 am, and saw some coals before having to feed baby at 6. Going to try getting it going when done giving this bottle. Looks like this vc is another baby to take care of. I need something that will run through the night, and not need babying to get it up to heat. Pretty coating of snow here this morning. Hear my oil heater burning away like crazy.
Redwolf: Oh hey. Don't feel bad about paying too much. My local vc dealer says they only sell the monpelier which looks beautiful! But read some reviews on that. Imagine if you paid over $2000 and sill got no heat!
Look at leonMSPT's posts. He has apparently made mods to his VC 0044 / 0046 and seems to love it. I'm convinced that one of my big problems is too much intake air (leaks).
Has yours been overfired? Not that this would mean it has, but are those bars in front all warped?
Look at leonMSPT's posts. He has apparently made mods to his VC 0044 / 0046 and seems to love it. I'm convinced that one of my big problems is too much intake air (leaks).
Has yours been overfired? Not that this would mean it has, but are those bars in front all warped?
Well... my opinions for what they're worth.
*************
13 x 13 is allowing the stack velocity to fall off to near zero, draft actually through the insert is nearly zero as well, unless you've got a "direct connection" to the damper plate that is sealed meticulously. Even then, the draft is going to be less than with a full liner to the top of the chimney. The VC 0046 demands a large liner, 8 inches. Smaller and the thing is likely to be overdrafted when operating, smokey when loading, and prone to "puffbacks". It just won't work right, and could be a menace.
My preference, as I've expressed numerous times in other posts, is rigid insulated liner through the straight section and insulated flex from the bottom of that to the insert. Blockoff plates are nice, I suppose, if you've got the time, money, and inclination. On an inside chimney with an insulated liner, and a well sealed top plate on the far end, I am not sure it's worth it.
With an uninsulated liner, you leave yourself vulnerable to a "chimney fire" from old creosote remaining in the lined chimney. Nearly impossible to get it ALL out... say you have a fire in the liner, any contact or near contact areas where there is creosote will ignite. Worthy to note too, that liner temperatures of 1000 degrees during "normal operation" are not unusual. Seeing that creosote will ignite when heated to about 650 degrees in the presence of air, seems a gimme that at some point something is going to burn on the outside of it.
With the "direct connection" to clean the chimney properly, you're going to have to pull the insert. Dirty, time consuming, and leads to people not cleaning the chimney properly at the proper intervals. It's alot of work, and expensive if the sweep is going to pull the insert and reinstall it. Takes a long time with a hot fire to heat the brick and tile up, meantime all the smoke condensing on the walls is generating creosote.
The liner is needed to properly draft the insert, and allow it to perform. I've read someplace and believe it to be true, that the chimney is the engine that drives the wood burner. Regardless of what it is, if the draft isn't sufficient you're not going to make heat in it. Dirty and cold burns are the enemy, as they deposit creosote at a rate that would amaze most. Maintaining a good draft through the entire burn it necessary, not just initially, mid burn, or late burn.
The "damper" in the VC 0046 is only a 'bypass' to make the gasses pass between the two layers of refractory brick at the rear, past the secondary air intakes, where it burns with a roaring sound not unlike a train passing your house. It does little to nothing to slow or reduce the amount of air flowing through the insert into the chimney.
Asking questions is how people avoid spending thousands of dollars to end up with something useless, or exceeding the cost-benefit ratio.... The only thing worse than spending thousands of dollars on useless results is to spend thousands of dollars on something that kills you, your family, or at the very least burns your house to the ground. I cannot emphasize enough, that there is a reason people stopped burning wood, coal, cow turds, and anything else, in favor of burning oil and natural gas, and electric heat. "Fire is dangerous. You can't just shut it off if something is wrong."
Chimney physics....
Taller = more draft
Smaller = more draft
Going from smaller to larger slows stack velocity, not usually a good thing, but sometimes it must be done and it seems to work if the difference isn't too large. I think 8 inch round to 13 x 13 is a fairly significant difference. Not to mention the corners... gasses stall in the corners and stuff deposits there more quickly. Round generally stays cleaner.
Doesn't take "much" secondary air to burn off the gasses... mine is hooked to an eight inch liner, about 35 feet tall... humungous draft.. When tearing my insert down this summer and rebuilding it, I am contriving a feed system with a valve on it... I will post pictures as I think it's something that may be necessary when draft exceeds design specs to avoid overfiring.
Generally, with an insert or stove keeping chimney temperatures higher will result in less creosote deposition and a cleaner system, less smoke to irritate neighbors and others. The top of the liner seems to be where it is coolest, and the largest creosote deposits will occur.
Stove temperatures vary with the length and duration of the burn, rarely "constant" for more than maybe a third of the time.
*************
13 x 13 is allowing the stack velocity to fall off to near zero, draft actually through the insert is nearly zero as well, unless you've got a "direct connection" to the damper plate that is sealed meticulously. Even then, the draft is going to be less than with a full liner to the top of the chimney. The VC 0046 demands a large liner, 8 inches. Smaller and the thing is likely to be overdrafted when operating, smokey when loading, and prone to "puffbacks". It just won't work right, and could be a menace.
My preference, as I've expressed numerous times in other posts, is rigid insulated liner through the straight section and insulated flex from the bottom of that to the insert. Blockoff plates are nice, I suppose, if you've got the time, money, and inclination. On an inside chimney with an insulated liner, and a well sealed top plate on the far end, I am not sure it's worth it.
With an uninsulated liner, you leave yourself vulnerable to a "chimney fire" from old creosote remaining in the lined chimney. Nearly impossible to get it ALL out... say you have a fire in the liner, any contact or near contact areas where there is creosote will ignite. Worthy to note too, that liner temperatures of 1000 degrees during "normal operation" are not unusual. Seeing that creosote will ignite when heated to about 650 degrees in the presence of air, seems a gimme that at some point something is going to burn on the outside of it.
With the "direct connection" to clean the chimney properly, you're going to have to pull the insert. Dirty, time consuming, and leads to people not cleaning the chimney properly at the proper intervals. It's alot of work, and expensive if the sweep is going to pull the insert and reinstall it. Takes a long time with a hot fire to heat the brick and tile up, meantime all the smoke condensing on the walls is generating creosote.
The liner is needed to properly draft the insert, and allow it to perform. I've read someplace and believe it to be true, that the chimney is the engine that drives the wood burner. Regardless of what it is, if the draft isn't sufficient you're not going to make heat in it. Dirty and cold burns are the enemy, as they deposit creosote at a rate that would amaze most. Maintaining a good draft through the entire burn it necessary, not just initially, mid burn, or late burn.
The "damper" in the VC 0046 is only a 'bypass' to make the gasses pass between the two layers of refractory brick at the rear, past the secondary air intakes, where it burns with a roaring sound not unlike a train passing your house. It does little to nothing to slow or reduce the amount of air flowing through the insert into the chimney.
Asking questions is how people avoid spending thousands of dollars to end up with something useless, or exceeding the cost-benefit ratio.... The only thing worse than spending thousands of dollars on useless results is to spend thousands of dollars on something that kills you, your family, or at the very least burns your house to the ground. I cannot emphasize enough, that there is a reason people stopped burning wood, coal, cow turds, and anything else, in favor of burning oil and natural gas, and electric heat. "Fire is dangerous. You can't just shut it off if something is wrong."
Chimney physics....
Taller = more draft
Smaller = more draft
Going from smaller to larger slows stack velocity, not usually a good thing, but sometimes it must be done and it seems to work if the difference isn't too large. I think 8 inch round to 13 x 13 is a fairly significant difference. Not to mention the corners... gasses stall in the corners and stuff deposits there more quickly. Round generally stays cleaner.
Doesn't take "much" secondary air to burn off the gasses... mine is hooked to an eight inch liner, about 35 feet tall... humungous draft.. When tearing my insert down this summer and rebuilding it, I am contriving a feed system with a valve on it... I will post pictures as I think it's something that may be necessary when draft exceeds design specs to avoid overfiring.
Generally, with an insert or stove keeping chimney temperatures higher will result in less creosote deposition and a cleaner system, less smoke to irritate neighbors and others. The top of the liner seems to be where it is coolest, and the largest creosote deposits will occur.
Stove temperatures vary with the length and duration of the burn, rarely "constant" for more than maybe a third of the time.
Thanks again LeoMSPT!
I do want to line and insulate the chimney, but have been worried about possibly creating too much draft with my 45 foot chimney. Did I mention that I can open the door with the damper down and not get smoke in the room? Is that rediculous?
I'm actually impressed at how clean my chimeny is burning. I'm seeing NO SMOKE at all coming out the top. I'm hoping that I'm getting a good secondary burn. I tell ya... it's burning the wood right up.
Want to know what I think is my problem, causing me not to get as much heat as with the other stove? The top of my stove... that sheet metal that creates the convection air chambers... is basically open to the exterior air right now... no damper plate, no insulation, no fireplace exhaust to keep it warm (because of "direct connect", and there's no insulation on the outside of the insert (like on that other Vermont Stove Company). Then again, I've only got one fan running right now. So it's not functionint as designed.
I'm learning.
Hey... smaller liner = more draft? There's got to be an equation or ration that relaves to chimney height, I'd think.
Thanks!
Mike
I do want to line and insulate the chimney, but have been worried about possibly creating too much draft with my 45 foot chimney. Did I mention that I can open the door with the damper down and not get smoke in the room? Is that rediculous?
I'm actually impressed at how clean my chimeny is burning. I'm seeing NO SMOKE at all coming out the top. I'm hoping that I'm getting a good secondary burn. I tell ya... it's burning the wood right up.
Want to know what I think is my problem, causing me not to get as much heat as with the other stove? The top of my stove... that sheet metal that creates the convection air chambers... is basically open to the exterior air right now... no damper plate, no insulation, no fireplace exhaust to keep it warm (because of "direct connect", and there's no insulation on the outside of the insert (like on that other Vermont Stove Company). Then again, I've only got one fan running right now. So it's not functionint as designed.
I'm learning.
Hey... smaller liner = more draft? There's got to be an equation or ration that relaves to chimney height, I'd think.
Thanks!
Mike
Ayuh, Smaller sectional area generates more draft. Sounds wierd... but seems to be true. That said, for equal draft rates, a larger chimney will obviously remove more heat and gasses. Leading to the issue of puffbacks and smoke back in the house with the smaller liner sizes.
I think you'll be more than happy with that insert, if it's functioning properly. It's "older" technology that was cutting edge when they did it. I found something interesting the other day... and now I can't find it...
Table comparing efficiency ratings and emissions for inserts and fireplaces... was surprised at the low emissions from this insert. Apparently, when it's working the way it is intended, it's as clean as a newer one.
Not overly long burn times. Not much can be done about that, as the firebox is small. A very large chunk, with two smaller chunks, on a bed of hot coals, will give me about 6 hours of useful heat, and it will relight in 7 hours, but it's rare... generally 5 hours or so, best.
I think you'll be more than happy with that insert, if it's functioning properly. It's "older" technology that was cutting edge when they did it. I found something interesting the other day... and now I can't find it...
Table comparing efficiency ratings and emissions for inserts and fireplaces... was surprised at the low emissions from this insert. Apparently, when it's working the way it is intended, it's as clean as a newer one.
Not overly long burn times. Not much can be done about that, as the firebox is small. A very large chunk, with two smaller chunks, on a bed of hot coals, will give me about 6 hours of useful heat, and it will relight in 7 hours, but it's rare... generally 5 hours or so, best.
mnowaczyk said:
Hey LeonMSPT: How many splits do you burn in a day/24 hours?
Midnight now, got rectangular splits tightly stacked, almost as good as a big round one. I fit 5 in there. I know I shouldn't create creosote, but I'm dampering it down too in hopes of having at least a good bed of coals at 7 am.
I gotta get a damper plate and a left fan in there. - see they sell for 300 bucks, sound right?
If I went back to the old stove I'd probably have 300 for the positive connection kit, and the only advantage I'd have would be good seals. I need to find some links to get the stove adhesive and the seals. That should be less than 50 bucks, right?
Door airwash: that comes up from in front of the grate, right?
Midnight now, got rectangular splits tightly stacked, almost as good as a big round one. I fit 5 in there. I know I shouldn't create creosote, but I'm dampering it down too in hopes of having at least a good bed of coals at 7 am.
I gotta get a damper plate and a left fan in there. - see they sell for 300 bucks, sound right?
If I went back to the old stove I'd probably have 300 for the positive connection kit, and the only advantage I'd have would be good seals. I need to find some links to get the stove adhesive and the seals. That should be less than 50 bucks, right?
Door airwash: that comes up from in front of the grate, right?
Local hardware stores here have rope gasket material and adhesive... not terribly expensive, but I don't by it. Relative in the business, just drop by the shop and ask. The adhesive is 6 or 7 bucks.
Get a Dremel tool, borrow or buy it. Get two of the bullet shapes gray stones... the channels are rounded on the VC, and they clean them up real good. Down to bare metal. I use a q-tip to apply a thin layer of the gasket cement to the door, press the gasket into place, and then put the door on the fire place and light her up. The heat will cure the cement.
Don't stretch the rope gasket when you're applying it. Just mash it on there, and don't cut it to length until it's all fitted and glued except the end you're cutting. Run it right up to, and past, the other end, cut it with a good pair of scissors. I used "EMS Shears", but don't know if you would have access to a pair. Easily cut a penny in half with them. Leave mother's scissors out of it...
If you burn hot enough, long enough, every day to burn off the creosote and soot on the door, you'll have few worries about creosote. Burning off a door in front of the fire, imagine what it's doing up in the liner/chimney system.
How many in 24 hours? Depends on the size of the splits, but between 10 and 15 burning hot and hard. It's a few trips down and up the stairs with the wood bag.
Get a Dremel tool, borrow or buy it. Get two of the bullet shapes gray stones... the channels are rounded on the VC, and they clean them up real good. Down to bare metal. I use a q-tip to apply a thin layer of the gasket cement to the door, press the gasket into place, and then put the door on the fire place and light her up. The heat will cure the cement.
Don't stretch the rope gasket when you're applying it. Just mash it on there, and don't cut it to length until it's all fitted and glued except the end you're cutting. Run it right up to, and past, the other end, cut it with a good pair of scissors. I used "EMS Shears", but don't know if you would have access to a pair. Easily cut a penny in half with them. Leave mother's scissors out of it...
If you burn hot enough, long enough, every day to burn off the creosote and soot on the door, you'll have few worries about creosote. Burning off a door in front of the fire, imagine what it's doing up in the liner/chimney system.
How many in 24 hours? Depends on the size of the splits, but between 10 and 15 burning hot and hard. It's a few trips down and up the stairs with the wood bag.
mnowaczyk said:
I'm definitely buring a lot more. A lot of my splits are small, but I think I'm averaging almost two per hour. I reloaded another 3 splits at 2 am (after my midnight 5), for a total of 7 between midnight and 7 am. I had coals this morning, but not many. So that's one per hour, but one per hour killed the fire. I think my splits are too small. This stove needs big splits, huh?
With the small firebox, it's difficult to load many large chunks. I try to build a bed a coals during the evening, and before bed I put two medium splits and a larger one. I can eek 6-7 hours out of it with decent heat and no problem catching it at the end. With poor seals on the door gaskets you're burning more than it will when you get it sealed up.
Word to the wise.... bust out the damper in the fireplace when you line the chimney. Try to come through the offset with insulated round flex, if at all possible. Some day, you may decide the VC isn't what you want. You might burn up more parts and decide to not put any more money in it. If you've relined your chimney, and gone through the offset with the large oval that came with the VC, you'll have a trouble adapting the 8 inch round to it. Save the oval you take off the original. If you can terminate inside the fireplace with 8 inch round, installing another insert will be a piece of cake.
Word to the wise.... bust out the damper in the fireplace when you line the chimney. Try to come through the offset with insulated round flex, if at all possible. Some day, you may decide the VC isn't what you want. You might burn up more parts and decide to not put any more money in it. If you've relined your chimney, and gone through the offset with the large oval that came with the VC, you'll have a trouble adapting the 8 inch round to it. Save the oval you take off the original. If you can terminate inside the fireplace with 8 inch round, installing another insert will be a piece of cake.
mnowaczyk said:
I took the damper plate out, but left the lentil. Front of bricks to front of back bricks at the top of my fireplace is only 13 inches. 6.5 of brick and lentil (which slopes back and up pretty steeply at the back of that 6.5 inches), which leaves about 5 inches of clearnance for an oval duct. I think 8" oval would fit easier than the connector for the VC, which was really tight. I think I'd need to rip out not only the lentil, but also some bricks to get an 8" round through. I know it makes most sense to bring through an 8 inch round, but it sounds like the work of a butcher to me.
my house is one of about 115 houses in historic city neighborhood architected by DuPont in the teens through ~1930. The neighborhood was initially a horse race track where the state fair was held until DuPont purchased it and designed it with a park-like feel (curvey streets in the middle of a city grid). I got a steal on the house in this market. the house is brick construction, but of course has wood joists and floors. Nice to know the chimney is far from any kids rooms, and runs right through our bedroom. Chimney sweep also said no liner is needed in this chimney... burn it up, and just call him once per year. I"m working on getting him back here to look at the liner work, and to maybe give me a cleaning for safetey sake and to tell me how dirty i"ve benn burning for these last 40 days since he cleaned my chimney (probably 20 days of burning various ways: mostly open fire, vsc insert, and vc insert. In any case< you've yet to get me worried of an iminent chimney fire. I'm also not interested in butchering this house. Sure, butchering the house is better than burning it down, but it's been so much work keeping this fire going, and my heat output has been such a bummer I'm not sure its all worth it. Maybe I should just submit to the laziness of a gas insert, maybe ventless to get some heat out of it. What a cop out, huh?
Sounds like everybody's stoves cool every morning, and they try to burn them hot each morning. I'll be sure to do that for now.
So back to the issue...
Is that VC 13x6 duct a standard size that can be reduced? Or must something custom be made? You nust have handled this issue, right?
Is your connector straight or 20 degree?
my house is one of about 115 houses in historic city neighborhood architected by DuPont in the teens through ~1930. The neighborhood was initially a horse race track where the state fair was held until DuPont purchased it and designed it with a park-like feel (curvey streets in the middle of a city grid). I got a steal on the house in this market. the house is brick construction, but of course has wood joists and floors. Nice to know the chimney is far from any kids rooms, and runs right through our bedroom. Chimney sweep also said no liner is needed in this chimney... burn it up, and just call him once per year. I"m working on getting him back here to look at the liner work, and to maybe give me a cleaning for safetey sake and to tell me how dirty i"ve benn burning for these last 40 days since he cleaned my chimney (probably 20 days of burning various ways: mostly open fire, vsc insert, and vc insert. In any case< you've yet to get me worried of an iminent chimney fire. I'm also not interested in butchering this house. Sure, butchering the house is better than burning it down, but it's been so much work keeping this fire going, and my heat output has been such a bummer I'm not sure its all worth it. Maybe I should just submit to the laziness of a gas insert, maybe ventless to get some heat out of it. What a cop out, huh?
Sounds like everybody's stoves cool every morning, and they try to burn them hot each morning. I'll be sure to do that for now.
So back to the issue...
Is that VC 13x6 duct a standard size that can be reduced? Or must something custom be made? You nust have handled this issue, right?
Is your connector straight or 20 degree?
LeonMSPT said:
LeonMSPT:
Do you recall what the emission rate was? I was trying to find it in the manual, but it's not there. It does say it's a 40,000 BTU stove.
Last night I said F it. Let's fill it up, and let it burn wide open. An hour later I had the best heat ever out of the stove. The firebox was lighting the entire room, and the glass was burnt clean. Of course when I came donwstairs this morning there was only a single coal in the ashes. I guess I can look at it as getting something out of the stove for at least a short period. The house has not burnt down yet either.
I'm probably not going to burn any more until I get my sweep out here. I hope to get the VC insert broken down a bit and maybe even fixed up, whether it be to get rid of it or re-install it. Did I mention my wife really likes the looks of this one? If she has to look at one all summer, this is the one she wants to look at.
It's been fun burning and learning.
Thanks for all your help!
Hey... I can't get a response from the other fella who said he recently bought one of these and paid too much. Did you get a hold of him? For Parts?
Thanks,
Mike
Well,
It's been a long road with this stove, but with the help of LeonMSPT its looking to be worth it. No there have not been any over burn problems with my old vc 46, but many seal issues. replaced all the seals because I could not control the burn rate and just flying thru the wood every day, with very little heat. After the seals were replaced I still have issues controlling the dampener, but slowly working them out. Going back to the seals, this made a huge difference in the heat output (cost me $18 for glue and all the seals), living in Michigan, in a house that is 102 years old, with no insulation, 2200 sq feet, and gas bill that was average $530 a month during winter season, keeping the house 65 deg. Once the stove work properly the house is 70 to 73 all the time. Boiler in the house has no kick on at all, as long as the stove is running. Burn time is about 4 to 5 hrs with med logs. I still have problems to work out, but it looks like it is worth it. A cord of wood runs around $160 and I may use 2 face cords per month, sending my heating bill down, saving around $400 a month. Oh, and by the way, having both fans working makes a big difference.
It's been a long road with this stove, but with the help of LeonMSPT its looking to be worth it. No there have not been any over burn problems with my old vc 46, but many seal issues. replaced all the seals because I could not control the burn rate and just flying thru the wood every day, with very little heat. After the seals were replaced I still have issues controlling the dampener, but slowly working them out. Going back to the seals, this made a huge difference in the heat output (cost me $18 for glue and all the seals), living in Michigan, in a house that is 102 years old, with no insulation, 2200 sq feet, and gas bill that was average $530 a month during winter season, keeping the house 65 deg. Once the stove work properly the house is 70 to 73 all the time. Boiler in the house has no kick on at all, as long as the stove is running. Burn time is about 4 to 5 hrs with med logs. I still have problems to work out, but it looks like it is worth it. A cord of wood runs around $160 and I may use 2 face cords per month, sending my heating bill down, saving around $400 a month. Oh, and by the way, having both fans working makes a big difference.
Sometimes the older units with a secondary burn area with intakes took alot of practice to make them stand up and sing. If it's not hot enough when you close the bypass damper, or you cut the air down to it too much, you don't get decent gas and airflow into the secondary burn area and it fizzles... the insert will still get "hot" but not "HOT".
Both fans will help... biggest issue I've noticed is you have to let it get hot enough before switching the blowers on.
My cousin called the other day... "We had a customer call us with an insert like yours. They burned with the door gaskets missing... It's over here if you want to come look and see if there's anything you want for parts out of what is still recognizable."
Should have seen it... middle support drooped and broke in two... horizontal support was big time toast... had a three inch bent in it, and warped toward the front... firebricks were in several pieces each. Front grates were kind of decent, so I took those. Bottom grate was broken in two, side to side... but servicable, so I grabbed that.
Best thing was, the thing had a 20 degree offset adaptor! Still in good shape! Grabbed that in a big hurry.
I am planning to pull mine as soon as the season ends and rebuild it... one of my plans is to marry a box to the bottom back where the secondary air intake is, and put a flapper in with a choke cable to control the secondary combustion air. When the weather is slightly warmer I could allow more secondary air in without "losing control", and if I have a chimney fire, shut it off. Of it it's real cold and I want the heat, open it up and stand back.
Both fans will help... biggest issue I've noticed is you have to let it get hot enough before switching the blowers on.
My cousin called the other day... "We had a customer call us with an insert like yours. They burned with the door gaskets missing... It's over here if you want to come look and see if there's anything you want for parts out of what is still recognizable."
Should have seen it... middle support drooped and broke in two... horizontal support was big time toast... had a three inch bent in it, and warped toward the front... firebricks were in several pieces each. Front grates were kind of decent, so I took those. Bottom grate was broken in two, side to side... but servicable, so I grabbed that.
Best thing was, the thing had a 20 degree offset adaptor! Still in good shape! Grabbed that in a big hurry.
I am planning to pull mine as soon as the season ends and rebuild it... one of my plans is to marry a box to the bottom back where the secondary air intake is, and put a flapper in with a choke cable to control the secondary combustion air. When the weather is slightly warmer I could allow more secondary air in without "losing control", and if I have a chimney fire, shut it off. Of it it's real cold and I want the heat, open it up and stand back.
redwolf said:
Great to hear LeonMSPT. I assume there was no good left fan on that unit you found, right? My chimney sweep comes on Tuesday to look at installing a liner. While I'm pulling out the stove, its probably a good time to send it to the garage for a teardown to find out what's up with that fan and to replace the seals.
You guys have been great. Thanks!
You guys have been great. Thanks!
I just got home from 10 days in Florida, to the house set to 54 degrees. In an effort to curb the oil it would take to get the house back up to 66-68, I cranked up the stove, even though I'd hoped I would no longer need the stove this season. The 43 degree temp was too cold for me and I fired it up. I was pretty happy with the heat. Over about 5 hours, I only kicked the heat on about once for every degree. The stove (with the bad seals and one broken blower) still did the majority of the work bringing about 1500 square feet of the house up to 67 degrees. It was burning good and hot, and blowing some nice heat. Now it seems that maybe I've built up a little too much ash. I get some blowing out the doors and there seems to be enough to clog up the grates/bars in the front. My burnign is much slower and colder today. I've been working, so I have not been able to tend the fire much, but I think I've got too much ash.
My question is:
How often do you guys clean out the ash? Do you have any guides or rules of thumb you use? I.E. The ash gets above the first bar on the front grate. You have to clear cinders from the intake to the after burner. The pan is full, etc.
Here is a picture of what I had in my ash pan when my burn rate really slowed down... basically full.
Thanks,
Mike
My question is:
How often do you guys clean out the ash? Do you have any guides or rules of thumb you use? I.E. The ash gets above the first bar on the front grate. You have to clear cinders from the intake to the after burner. The pan is full, etc.
Here is a picture of what I had in my ash pan when my burn rate really slowed down... basically full.
Thanks,
Mike
Attachments
What's it take you fellas to clean off the glass? How often do you run it that hot?
I just piled the box high with small pieces of wood with space between them, put some close to the glass, and left the air wide open. It did not clean the glass immediately, but when I walked back to the stove almost two hours later, it was clean (except for the sides where my seals are leaking). It seems that just adding a log or two, with all my ash, was leading to buildup on the glass (too cool of a burn).
Do you guys usually pile it high? Or just load a log or two?
After emptying the ash pan, and loading it up twice... the house is up from 67 to 70 degrees. Granted, it's 46 degrees outside right now. It seems I'm learning how to use this insert. I guess you guys ahve already figure it out, huh?
I just piled the box high with small pieces of wood with space between them, put some close to the glass, and left the air wide open. It did not clean the glass immediately, but when I walked back to the stove almost two hours later, it was clean (except for the sides where my seals are leaking). It seems that just adding a log or two, with all my ash, was leading to buildup on the glass (too cool of a burn).
Do you guys usually pile it high? Or just load a log or two?
After emptying the ash pan, and loading it up twice... the house is up from 67 to 70 degrees. Granted, it's 46 degrees outside right now. It seems I'm learning how to use this insert. I guess you guys ahve already figure it out, huh?
I don't let the ash pile up in the pan enough to clog things. When I add wood, I sweep the ash around and if it's slow dropping, I clean the ash pan out.
If you shake it back and forth a little, it comes out without pushing the top off the pile down behind it...
I use the Rutland glass cleaner, lotion stuff, blue... like oven top cleaner and barbecue grill cleaner.
Wipe with a damp paper towel to get the ash off the glass and loose stuff... then use a damp paper towel with a dollop of cleaner on it about the size of a quarter or fifty cent piece. Wipe until the glass is "clean" then buff off with a dry paper towel. Makes it pretty slippery after and stuff doesn't stick on it so easy. Wipes off clean next time too. Each time it puts another layer on.
If you shake it back and forth a little, it comes out without pushing the top off the pile down behind it...
I use the Rutland glass cleaner, lotion stuff, blue... like oven top cleaner and barbecue grill cleaner.
Wipe with a damp paper towel to get the ash off the glass and loose stuff... then use a damp paper towel with a dollop of cleaner on it about the size of a quarter or fifty cent piece. Wipe until the glass is "clean" then buff off with a dry paper towel. Makes it pretty slippery after and stuff doesn't stick on it so easy. Wipes off clean next time too. Each time it puts another layer on.
DelBurner said:
Thanks again LeonMSPT. I think I read that you can get the stove hot enough to cook off the glass if you want. I was wondering what you do to get yours hottest. Load 'er up, open the air, how long or hot do you wait before engaging after burner? Immediately?
I got the glass pretty clean with a hot burn, and want to know how to consistently and easily get a hot burn.
Chimney sweep comes tomorrow, so I've got to let 'er burn down now. Can't wait to see how dirty the chimney is, and what he wants to install a liner. I think he wants to permanently alter the smoke chamber in my firebplace, which I'm not too keen on. I'd like to know I can easily, very easily switch back to an open fireplace.
I got the glass pretty clean with a hot burn, and want to know how to consistently and easily get a hot burn.
Chimney sweep comes tomorrow, so I've got to let 'er burn down now. Can't wait to see how dirty the chimney is, and what he wants to install a liner. I think he wants to permanently alter the smoke chamber in my firebplace, which I'm not too keen on. I'd like to know I can easily, very easily switch back to an open fireplace.
I busted the bejesus out of the smoke chamber in the two I relined and redid "slammer" installs in. My father and my buddy wouldn't go back to an open fireplace for anything, or a slammer for that matter. The insert and liner just works too good to go back.
Need a bed of coals, fresh load of wood, and wait until it's burning before you close the bypass... don't shut the air off but adjust the air during the initial burn for the burn temperature you want. As the insert cools off, the bimetallic springs will open the air supply in front... when you reload, they'll open more until the insert gets hot again, then close themselves.
A bed of coals under a load of burning wood allows lots of gas to pass by the secondary air supplies beneath the bricks in back.
I have a crack in one of mine. It's fun to sit and watch the white flames inside the chamber through it... but will replace it this summer during the down time.
Need a bed of coals, fresh load of wood, and wait until it's burning before you close the bypass... don't shut the air off but adjust the air during the initial burn for the burn temperature you want. As the insert cools off, the bimetallic springs will open the air supply in front... when you reload, they'll open more until the insert gets hot again, then close themselves.
A bed of coals under a load of burning wood allows lots of gas to pass by the secondary air supplies beneath the bricks in back.
I have a crack in one of mine. It's fun to sit and watch the white flames inside the chamber through it... but will replace it this summer during the down time.
DelBurner said:
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