Regional pellets vs. pellets abroad

[smwilliamson]

Okies are great, high heat, low ash but come from BC.

Locally we have the Inferno pellets mill...and you couldn't get much more polar opposite in performance. In fact, there is more BTU's in the plastic inferno bag than the 40lbs of pellets within.

How important is "locally" made or Made in USA to everyone when making the choice to purchase one product over another?

Personally I like okies, but I feel guilty for buying a product that needs so much fossil fuel to move it around.

 

[krooser]

Okies are great, high heat, low ash but come from BC.

Locally we have the Inferno pellets mill...and you couldn't get much more polar opposite in performance. In fact, there is more BTU's in the plastic inferno bag than the 40lbs of pellets within.

How important is "locally" made or Made in USA to everyone when making the choice to purchase one product over another?

Personally I like okies, but I feel guilty for buying a product that needs so much fossil fuel to move it around.

Well if that makes you guilty you're just gonna have to become Amish... nearly everything you buy gets moved by truck, rail or barge. I'm in the trucking biz... we haul green beans to NY from Wisconsin and backhaul beets. The beets get processed and get hauled back to NY after canning. The stuff on your grocers shelves doesn't miraculously fall from the sky.

The Toyota Prius is built in Japan (with Chinese-produced lithium in it's batteries), transported thousand of miles by diesel powered ships using heavy diesel oil, then get stored on the docks where they are later transferred to trains that take them to distant points only to be re-loaded onto trucks who finally deliver the to the dealers. My '84 Dodge truck is less harmful to the environment then the Prius IMHO.

The wood pulp to make your toilet paper may come from eastern Europe as those countries are cutting trees at a record pace to meet worldwide demand for pulp. Producing a roll of Charmin may have taken many gallons of oil, thousands of Btu's of NG and countless watts of electricity to get to your behind.

I'd say those BC pellets probably use less energy to get to your stove than the hamburger you're eating for supper...

 

[jtakeman]

I have no local mill in CT. So its an open market for me. I just want the best I can afford. Be it Canada or USA made. No issue for me.

There are a few countries that I would prefer to never see any of my cash. But thats another story.

 

[smwilliamson]

Well if that makes you guilty you're just gonna have to become Amish... nearly everything you buy gets moved by truck, rail or barge.

One doesn't have to be Amish to make good local choices. My wife and I have made a commitment to try and live a less consuming lifestyle. Nearly everything we buy, including clothes, is used. My pellet stoves were used. Every truck or auto be get is used. Our food for 3 seasons of the year is locally grown within 300 miles of where we live. When we do buy something new we try to consider the impact our purchase makes on a local and global sense. We shop around to try and find a suitable substitute which is either used or produced locally. Most times...we do without. With some exceptions nearly every dollar we spend needs to make its way into the pocket of someone locally.

We both quit our jobs and got into careers which have local impacts. I tell you...there is a savings and a sence of accomplishment but it is a constant challenge, the world doesn't want you to think locally anymore. Before the industrial revolution you have no choice...now you have too many choices.

So when I go to buy fuel for our heating needs it only makes sense to try and buy from a local mill in RI, NH or ME. However, I did buy a ton of Oakies recently to offset my wifes over righteous ways. That is the guilt I have...it's the wife and the hidden lie...not the purchase itself. Keep quiet everyone... ;-P

 

[summit]

Many of our customers want to do the "local" option and purchase a locally made pellet.... that being said, the locally made pellets don't compare to the cubex and okanagon pellets we also carry. For the folks that raise the issue I simply point out that at least the canadian pellets are made on this continent, instead of the arab oil they could otherwise dump into their tank.

 

[summit]

krooser makes a good point about transport, however. The drivers who bring us our cubex pellets often head about 15 miles down the road to the log yard in whitefield after they deliver the pellets to us. Then, they load on a bunch of logs, and truck them back to Canada. They are turned into flooring at the lauzon plant, and the waste is turned into cubex pellets. Then both products come right back to Maine, and the cycle continues. While the finished product may be made in Canada, some of the stock material to make it is local.

 

[jtakeman]

One doesn't have to be Amish to make good local choices. My wife and I have made a commitment to try and live a less consuming lifestyle. Every truck or auto be get is used.

Our last 3 vehicles have been lease returns or left overs. I saved several thousand dollars on 1 year old vehicles. All had less than 15,000 miles and looked spanking new. Because of this I was able to buy a new boat (at year end savings of coarse). I am not cheap, I am frugal!

OK, OK, I am cheap. Had to try though!

 

[jtakeman]

krooser makes a good point about transport, however. The drivers who bring us our cubex pellets often head about 15 miles down the road to the log yard in whitefield after they deliver the pellets to us. Then, they load on a bunch of logs, and truck them back to Canada. They are turned into flooring at the lauzon plant, and the waste is turned into cubex pellets. Then both products come right back to Maine, and the cycle continues. While the finished product may be made in Canada, some of the stock material to make it is local.

Truckers don't like to haul the return(back haul) empty. They do not get paid for empty loads. No money in that!

Yes I watch Ice Road Truckers! I also watch American loggers, And swamp loggers, And. (Love them show's).

 

[mascoma]

this is a tough call... so many variables.

Is it better to by local pellets made from whole trees cut just for pellets or BC pellets made from a byproduct?
How was the timber harvested?
Brand new plant or reused mill building?
If new building was steel made in USA or china?
Do they use wood or Nat gas, propane, oil to dry pellets?

What about the plastic bags?

It could go on and on...

 

[mascoma]

[quote author="krooser" date="1279340646"][quote author="smwilliamson" date="1279337577"]

The Toyota Prius is built in Japan (with Chinese-produced lithium in it's batteries), transported thousand of miles by diesel powered ships using heavy diesel oil, then get stored on the docks where they are later transferred to trains that take them to distant points only to be re-loaded onto trucks who finally deliver the to the dealers. My '84 Dodge truck is less harmful to the environment then the Prius IMHO.

quote]

I think you are in denial regarding your Dodge but the origin and disposal of those batteries does make me wonder sometimes.

 

[Fsappo]

Just dont buy those Democrat pellets. When you open the bag 1/3 goes into your hopper, 1/3 to your neighbor on the left, one third to the neighbor on the right.

Go with the Republican pellets. Made from dead seals by slave labor and produced in the middle east.

I have no problem with Canadian pellets. Heck, if I really did, I wouldnt drink Canadian beer or have a Bryan Adams poster on my wall. Did I say that out loud?

 

[tinkabranc]

IMO "Made in the USA" does not have the same meaning it used to. Outsourcing touches every industry
in one way or the other.

It does not matter to me if they are from BC as long as I am getting a quality product.

 

[smalltown]

I would prefer buying locally made products who wouldn't, but the quality needs to be there. If it hadn't been for the Japanese making much better cars would the American car quality have come back to the level of today?

As far as buying Canadian pellets, and not hoping to offend my Canadian neighbors, they are in my opinion as close to being American as one can get without being a U.S. citizen.
I would much rather spend my money with my good neighbors/friends to the North than buying oil from those who would and some of whom are already are doing us harm.

 

[jtakeman]

this is a tough call... so many variables.

Is it better to by local pellets made from whole trees cut just for pellets or BC pellets made from a byproduct?
How was the timber harvested?
Brand new plant or reused mill building?
If new building was steel made in USA or china?
Do they use wood or Nat gas, propane, oil to dry pellets?

What about the plastic bags?

It could go on and on...

As far as I know there are only 2 mills doing the whole tree cut just for pellets. And one is using beetle killed trees. There are 2 other mills chipping whole trees, But they are only using a percentage in there process.

If the tree is from a tree farm. Just meant for lumber I see know issue or If the tree had to go or was storm damaged. So be it(no different then a tree used for firewood). I don't know the exact details of the whole tree thing, But I can imagine they were not quite lumber grade.

 

[gbreda]

Our last 3 vehicles have been lease returns or left overs. I saved several thousand dollars on 1 year old vehicles. All had less than 15,000 miles and looked spanking new. Because of this I was able to buy a new boat (at year end savings of coarse). I am not cheap, I am frugal!

OK, OK, I am cheap. Had to try though!

X2 in every sense of Jay's post...except I bought a new motorcycle in 2006...off season at 1/3 off pricing
Last 4 vehicles have been used. Current is a manufacturer reps' vehicle. 2009 bought in April 2010 with 19K miles on it.

Frugal/Cheap arguement.....I can identify with that completely. Let's say that I live as simply as I can ;-)

Although I try and buy as local as I can, when I can, but sometimes it just doesnt pan out. The nearest local pellets I could have purchased were Lakes Region last year. Only 20 miles from my house. Thank god I passed on the first and only year in production.

 

[hossthehermit]

this is a tough call... so many variables.

Is it better to by local pellets made from whole trees cut just for pellets or BC pellets made from a byproduct?
How was the timber harvested?
Brand new plant or reused mill building?
If new building was steel made in USA or china?
Do they use wood or Nat gas, propane, oil to dry pellets?

What about the plastic bags?

It could go on and on...

As far as I know there are only 2 mills doing the whole tree cut just for pellets. And one is using beetle killed trees. There are 2 other mills chipping whole trees, But they are only using a percentage in there process.

If the tree is from a tree farm. Just meant for lumber I see know issue or If the tree had to go or was storm damaged. So be it(no different then a tree used for firewood). I don't know the exact details of the whole tree thing, But I can imagine they were not quite lumber grade.

Last I heard, the gubmint was paying the harvesters to cull those beetle killed trees. Sure must cut the cost of raw material if you don't hafta pay stumpage.

 

[krooser]

The Toyota Prius is built in Japan (with Chinese-produced lithium in it's batteries), transported thousand of miles by diesel powered ships using heavy diesel oil, then get stored on the docks where they are later transferred to trains that take them to distant points only to be re-loaded onto trucks who finally deliver the to the dealers. My '84 Dodge truck is less harmful to the environment then the Prius IMHO.

quote]

I think you are in denial regarding your Dodge but the origin and disposal of those batteries does make me wonder sometimes.

I should have made myself clearer... when you buy the Prius all these "bad things" happen... more pollution, more oil burned, more industrial, waste, etc... all because a new vehicle is being produced. (OK you save a little fuel when you drive it buy my Dodge gets 20 mpg on the hwy... the Prius maybe 40 on a good day...) All that "pollution" is over and done with my old cars... (right now I own a '33, a '54, a '56, an '83, an '84, a '95 and a '98). The only "bad" things now are the use of gasoline and oil used for the daily operation of the truck and any parts and tires I buy. But I would bet I use a lot less keeping my old beast alive than is used in building a new Prius and shipping it thousands of miles... plus I haul stuff in my pickup...how many trips to the pellet dealer would it take to haul a ton of pellets in a Prius? I do it in one trip. My Pete can haul 25 tons @6 MPG... I'd bet that computes to a lower carbon footprint than most any econo-box.

I've been in a conservation mode for years... I drive old cars because they are cheap... I shut the lights off when I leave a room... I keep the idle time on my Peterbilt down to about 3% of the total engine hours (the truck has 1,610,000 miles on it BTW), I drive a little slower 'cause I like the back roads... I do lots of stuff to save a buck. If that keeps my "carbon footprint down that's OK.

But I would think that burning a western softwood pellet that burns cleaner and makes more BTU's would offset the fuel neeeded to transport it across the continent. You'll burn fewer pellets keeping more trucks off the road... think about it.

 

[schmeg]

I guess I'm not sure what buying used will accomplish other than saving money. I'm also not sure what buying locally will accomplish
either. You live in Mass. which is densely populated as a whole. One familys decisions to buy locally and work locally will hardly have
any impact on the economy. I hate to sound cinical, but things are what they are in this world. With that being said, I am surrounded
by pellet plants here in Maine. None of them can put out a really good pellet. If they could, I would buy. Life is too short to burn crappy
pellets. I spent a whole season "f"ing around with bad pellets from a company out of Northern Maine. Last year it was Okies and Cubies
and life is good. Now it's Barefoots. If everything in life required you to be accountable and competitive, this country wouldn't be in the mess it's in.

 

[smwilliamson]

...Life is too short to burn crappy
pellets.

I'm putting it into the signature hall of fame...

 

[Meneillys]

[/quote]

It cost a whole lot less than trying to fight...then clean up a 200,000+ acre forest fire, and that is a very real risk with bug kill trees....they are just one match or lighting bolt away from a catastrophic event if not dealt with.[/quote]

What is the BTU rating of a dead bug? Being a small business owner I like to buy my stuff at locally owned stores if I can and I'm ok with paying a bit more because the guy lives down the road. Luckily I have a locally owned grocery store and hardware. Then just down the road we have the friendly fuel oil, diesel, and propane that is locally owned. I will be in some time to switch over to your propane Franks.

 

[hossthehermit]

this is a tough call... so many variables.

Is it better to by local pellets made from whole trees cut just for pellets or BC pellets made from a byproduct?
How was the timber harvested?
Brand new plant or reused mill building?
If new building was steel made in USA or china?
Do they use wood or Nat gas, propane, oil to dry pellets?

What about the plastic bags?

It could go on and on...

As far as I know there are only 2 mills doing the whole tree cut just for pellets. And one is using beetle killed trees. There are 2 other mills chipping whole trees, But they are only using a percentage in there process.

If the tree is from a tree farm. Just meant for lumber I see know issue or If the tree had to go or was storm damaged. So be it(no different then a tree used for firewood). I don't know the exact details of the whole tree thing, But I can imagine they were not quite lumber grade.

Last I heard, the gubmint was paying the harvesters to cull those beetle killed trees. Sure must cut the cost of raw material if you don't hafta pay stumpage.

It cost a whole lot less than trying to fight...then clean up a 200,000+ acre forest fire, and that is a very real risk with bug kill trees....they are just one match or lighting bolt away from a catastrophic event if not dealt with.

Well, now, there ya go again, takin' what I said the wrong way. I'm all in favor of cleaning these areas up, I'm well aware of the risk, and when it's harvested it should be used. No problem with the gubmint payin' the harvesters, either. Just seems like a mill getting such a deal on raw materials oughtta be able to turn out product a lot cheaper than other mills, and keep their prices down. BUT, that's just MY opinion, and we all know how popular that is around here.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Well, now, there ya go again, takin' what I said the wrong way. I'm all in favor of cleaning these areas up, I'm well aware of the risk, and when it's harvested it should be used. No problem with the gubmint payin' the harvesters, either. Just seems like a mill getting such a deal on raw materials oughtta be able to turn out product a lot cheaper than other mills, and keep their prices down. BUT, that's just MY opinion, and we all know how popular that is around here.

Hoss,

You are looking it the wrong way, let me explain.

Jimmy Bob pellet maker sets up shop and gets Billy Bob Gubmint to provide taxpayers funds to help get rid of a hazard on Jimmy Bob's land. Jimmy Bob says well now I can make these wonderful pellets and sell them to Bobby Jean over in Hootersville for a decent price so he goes and talks to his bean counter Bambi Dollar Signs who is just plain envious that the pellet mill across town is making good money selling their pellets at $280/ton and says you know we can sell our pellets at $230/ton and make more money than the folks across town. What do you think? Well you would have thought the world had just exploded, Bambi jumps up and says Jimmy Bob, I thought you loved me and that we were going get just as much money as we could for these pellets and then go to an exotic island and live happily ever after. In order to do that quickly you shouldn't charge any less than the folks across town do.

Does that make more sense for you?

 

[hossthehermit]

Well, now, there ya go again, takin' what I said the wrong way. I'm all in favor of cleaning these areas up, I'm well aware of the risk, and when it's harvested it should be used. No problem with the gubmint payin' the harvesters, either. Just seems like a mill getting such a deal on raw materials oughtta be able to turn out product a lot cheaper than other mills, and keep their prices down. BUT, that's just MY opinion, and we all know how popular that is around here.

Hoss,

You are looking it the wrong way, let me explain.

Jimmy Bob pellet maker sets up shop and gets Billy Bob Gubmint to provide taxpayers funds to help get rid of a hazard on Jimmy Bob's land. Jimmy Bob says well now I can make these wonderful pellets and sell them to Bobby Jean over in Hootersville for a decent price so he goes and talks to his bean counter Bambi Dollar Signs who is just plain envious that the pellet mill across town is making good money selling their pellets at $280/ton and says you know we can sell our pellets at $230/ton and make more money than the folks across town. What do you think? Well you would have thought the world had just exploded, Bambi jumps up and says Jimmy Bob, I thought you loved me and that we were going get just as much money as we could for these pellets and then go to an exotic island and live happily ever after. In order to do that quickly you shouldn't charge any less than the folks across town do.

Does that make more sense for you?

In CO they are grinding whole logs (after debarking) but I'm not sure if any stumpage is paid to the state/Feds or not....not sure about BC/Alberta or the rest of Canada either where bug kill has happened

Pellets and most things are not sold solely based on the price of producing them, but on what the market will bear. Currently there are many pellet mills that are operating at a loss, but it's less of a loss than closing down. Back in 2008, some were hauling their weekly take to the bank in an armored car.....but over time it should equal out.... The jury is still out as to the end result of taking whole trees and making pellets from them. I have to believe the only way to do it and still make it, would be with blow down or bug kill trees. I would think that living trees would carry too much of a cost (useable timber) that the numbers could work....but I may be wrong on this.....probably why there is only a handful (less a couple of fingers) mills currently doing it this way.

Geez, BTU, make up yer mind. On one thread, yer sayin' yer pellets cost more 'cuz they cost more to make. On another thread it's 'cuz it costs so much to haul 'em. Be carefull, now, you're awful close to admitting that you're just like the oil companies, and you're gonna squeeze every dam' cent you can outta anybody that wants to stay warm, and can't afford to move to Arizona to do it.

 

[jtakeman]

I would prefer buying locally made products who wouldn't, but the quality needs to be there. If it hadn't been for the Japanese making much better cars would the American car quality have come back to the level of today?

As far as buying Canadian pellets, and not hoping to offend my Canadian neighbors, they are in my opinion as close to being American as one can get without being a U.S. citizen.
I would much rather spend my money with my good neighbors/friends to the North than buying oil from those who would and some of whom are already are doing us harm.

I just check some of the items I bought in the last few years.

Enviro Omega made in Canada (probably why it likes Canadian pellets)
Ford 06 f150 4x4 made in Canada
PrinceCraft 08 14 ft boat. made in Canada

Made in USA= Not much. A few light bulbs and my wifes perfume bottles. My sons computer stand I built myself using USA wood.

I will buy Canadian with a smile.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I would prefer buying locally made products who wouldn't, but the quality needs to be there. If it hadn't been for the Japanese making much better cars would the American car quality have come back to the level of today?

As far as buying Canadian pellets, and not hoping to offend my Canadian neighbors, they are in my opinion as close to being American as one can get without being a U.S. citizen.
I would much rather spend my money with my good neighbors/friends to the North than buying oil from those who would and some of whom are already are doing us harm.

I just check some of the items I bought in the last few years.

Enviro Omega made in Canada (probably why it likes Canadian pellets)
Ford 06 f150 4x4 made in Canada
PrinceCraft 08 14 ft boat. made in Canada

Made in USA= Not much. A few light bulbs and my wifes perfume bottles. My sons computer stand I built myself using USA wood.

I will buy Canadian with a smile.

Interesting seems that Sherwood imports stuff from China maybe those Canadian Pellets have parts from China as well.

http://www.importgenius.com/importers/sherwood-industries.html