Replacing Insert - Have no idea where to start. Halp.

[SephYuyX]

Firstly, this place seems like an amazing resource, and full of friendly people, so i'm really excited about joining up. It's already inspired me to build a wood shed, so i'm mid way through on that so far, hopefully will be posting it soon.

Secondly, I moved in to a home with a real crappy insert, a TEMCO TLC 42-4, and it's been terrible. The heat it puts off is bad, the fan is worse, and it sucks out air like a succubus dining in space. Which plays in to my biggest concern and main reason i'm looking to replace, is that when i'm not using it, even with the damper closed, so much air moves through it causing a temperature difference in that room.

I read through the stickies, but I'm still pretty lost. I had no idea how involved this would be, and how little it's discussed anywhere else. You can find tons of info on doors and windows, but nothing on fireplaces. I havent planned on doing it myself, but maybe I will, but I'm not even seeing any fireplace companies in the area, or what fireplaces are offered.

Anyway. What can I tell you that would help to try and lead me to, something?

-The opening in the fireplace is 44.5"Lx36.5"Hx25"D, which is bigger than the 42-4 specs..
-The room it's in is 500sqft with vaulted angled ceiling in a 2001 two story 2500sqft house with unfinished basement (+1000sqft).
-Heating the entire house is not mandatory, supplemental would be fine, though if the prices are close enough, the better output is always good just in case the furnace (heat pump + propane) goes out, or it's a real cold night.
-Air tightness between the inside and outside is my biggest concern, which is why I kind of like the QuadraFire http://www.quadrafire.com/Products/5100i-Wood-Insert.aspx but it's also quite bulky, sticks out, and it's more box than visual fire (but I suppose that's the point),
-Conversely to the above, it would also be nice to actually use the fireplace time to time. Open the door, enjoy the sound, possible to have a swing are to cook something in a dutch oven, etc. But it doesn't seem like this would be possible, if high heat and air tightness are desired.

Are there any resources that list all the different types of inserts, their positives and negatives, etc? Any listing of where to find local dealers / contractors?

What are some of your recommendations?

What else can I provide that would be helpful?

Thank you!

 

[webby3650]

What you have is not in fact an insert at all, it's a zero clearance prefabricated fireplace. The quad you listed is a fireplace insert, it needs a masonry fireplace to be inserted into.
What you really need to do is to pull that entire fireplace and pipe out and replace the entire apparatus. Replace it with a high efficiency zero clearance fireplace, it will also require new class A chimney. We've done this very thing many times, here's a good heater that is comparable to your current opening.
http://www.kozyheat.com/mobile/product/z42

 

[Grisu]

Not sure if it will fit but a cheaper and less involved alternative would be to place a rear-vented stove on the hearth in front of the fireplace and run a liner up the flue. Possible stoves would be Jotul F600, Woodstock Progress Hybrid, Hearthstone Manchester to name a few. The depth of the hearth and the height of the fireplace opening (hearth to top of glass doors) would be critical measurements.

For a modern, EPA-approved woodburning appliance you will also need dry wood with a internal moisture content of less than 20%. That requires stacking the split firewood in a sunny and windy spot for up to three years. Since it is rare that you can buy truly dry wood I would get that going before even settling on a new stove/fireplace.

 

[SephYuyX]

What you have is not in fact an insert at all, it's a zero clearance prefabricated fireplace. The quad you listed is a fireplace insert, it needs a masonry fireplace to be inserted into.
What you really need to do is to pull that entire fireplace and pipe out and replace the entire apparatus. Replace it with a high efficiency zero clearance fireplace, it will also require new class A chimney. We've done this very thing many times, here's a good heater that is comparable to your current opening.
http://www.kozyheat.com/mobile/product/z42

I see, well, that's something I learned right there. I just assumed anything that wasn't masonry, or a stove, was considered an insert, as you know, it just gets "inserted" in a hole.
Looks like there's a dealer in the area, so I may do that as a start. What kind of cost would I be looking at? 5k? Do you know of any other makes/models that would fit my criteria, or be close?
Thanks.

Not sure if it will fit but a cheaper and less involved alternative would be to place a rear-vented stove on the hearth in front of the fireplace and run a liner up the flue. Possible stoves would be Jotul F600, Woodstock Progress Hybrid, Hearthstone Manchester to name a few. The depth of the hearth and the height of the fireplace opening (hearth to top of glass doors) would be critical measurements.

For a modern, EPA-approved woodburning appliance you will also need dry wood with a internal moisture content of less than 20%. That requires stacking the split firewood in a sunny and windy spot for up to three years. Since it is rare that you can buy truly dry wood I would get that going before even settling on a new stove/fireplace.

I had initially thought about doing that with a stove, but I don't think i'd like it sticking out on the hearth; I could always get a smaller one and stick it inside.. but might as well just do a prefab at that point.
I also didn't know that about the wood. As mentioned I do have a woodshed mid mild, so that'll be ready soon, but yeah, longest aged wood I have access to is around 1yr.
Thanks.

 

[webby3650]

I see, well, that's something I learned right there. I just assumed anything that wasn't masonry, or a stove, was considered an insert, as you know, it just gets "inserted" in a hole.
Looks like there's a dealer in the area, so I may do that as a start. What kind of cost would I be looking at? 5k? Do you know of any other makes/models that would fit my criteria, or be close?
Thanks.



I had initially thought about doing that with a stove, but I don't think i'd like it sticking out on the hearth; I could always get a smaller one and stick it inside.. but might as well just do a prefab at that point.
I also didn't know that about the wood. As mentioned I do have a woodshed mid mild, so that'll be ready soon, but yeah, longest aged wood I have access to is around 1yr.
Thanks.

There are many units that would work, the Z42 is a pretty easy fit for a remodel though. It comes in at about 3K with the options. If your willing and able to do the demo and finish work then it could be done for 5K.

 

[Woody Stover]

Since wood was mentioned, I'll add that wood will dry faster when stacked single-row out in the wind, as opposed to packed into a shed in multiple rows with little air movement around the splits. Has the wood you have been split for a year? If so, it might be decent, except if it's Oak or other dense woods, which takes a couple years, at least.

 

[mellow]

Most of the inserts that will fit into a zc fireplace are small and have short burn times. With the SQ footage of your home depending on how much you want to heat it I would look at ripping that ZC out as it looks like it stands off a wall and install a freestanding stove and new chimney system, you will have tons of options to choose from at that point.

 

[SephYuyX]

It was more or less decided to not go with a stove.

Does any sort of ZC exist where its super efficient, but has the option to be like an old school fireplace that has a swing arm, etc?

Whats the most efficient ZC there is?

 

[sen166]

I was in the exact same boat as you are in now after this winter. I put up with a Superior ZC fireplace for a winter, then I put a ZC approved insert into my Superior ZC fireplace: what a mistake. It was a solid little stove, but it did not put out the heat or have the burn times I was looking and hoping for. Earlier this year I did a total remodel, removed the insert and ZC fireplace, built a hearth, and put in a nice free standing stove that has no problem heating my whole home and is much more aesthetically pleasing.

Unless you are dead set on the open fireplace/classic hearth look, I would highly recommend NOT completely ruling out a free standing stove yet. I was surprised on how easy it was to actually remove my ZC fireplace and hearth and drywall over the old opening. Just my two cents.

 

[webby3650]

It was more or less decided to not go with a stove.

Does any sort of ZC exist where its super efficient, but has the option to be like an old school fireplace that has a swing arm, etc?

Whats the most efficient ZC there is?

Not gonna happen. Open door equals low efficiency.

 

[Grisu]

Look for one that says "EPA-approved", "Washington State approved", "low emission" etc. Their theoretical efficiency will be somewhere in the 70% to 80% range and at that point proper fuel (aka dry wood), proper installation, and good operation will play a large role in the actual efficiency of the unit. Since those can differ a lot from user to user it is hard to determine "the most efficient ZC fireplace". For being efficient, they require a particular airflow which is only achieved by having the glass door(s) closed. Use it like a standard masonry fireplace and the efficiency will be like your current unit. You can still cook in them. I have some spare firebricks which I place into the coals and then I put a dutch oven or pizza stone on top of it to cook something.

The KozyHeat was already mentioned for a efficient ZC fireplace. Other options:
Pacific Energy FP30
Several Superior fireplaces: http://superiorfireplaces.us.com/products/t/superior-wood-burning-fireplaces (Check for the ones that have one of the above mentioned descriptions.)
Quadrafire 7100
Napoleon NZ3000
Various RSF fireplaces: http://www.icc-rsf.com/en/rsf-woodburning-fireplaces
FireplaceXtraordinaire Elite 36
Valcourt FP9 or 10
Flame Monaco for a more budget-friendly option

Most likely you will also need to replace the chimney-pipe. Be aware of that when calculating the cost of the swap.

 

[SephYuyX]

More great input, thanks!

I think the wife is dead set against a stove.. I grew up with masonry and a stove, so used to both, no real preference though, but that's why I sort of like the cooking option, but I didn't think about just putting it in a ZC and closing the door, I don't see why that wouldn't work. In any case, it's not a frequent thing, just for fun.

We just replaced all the windows in our home, added insulation, etc, so the fireplace is really the last thing that needs attention.. hence asking for the most efficient to go along with all this other work we've done. I am surprised there isn't a reigning champ that's touted as the best, but I suppose that's also a good thing as there are more options to compare against. It will be fun going through Grisu's list.. Since I don't really know what's what about these, i'll probably get a couple companies to come out and go through some stuff, then perhaps explore doing it myself, etc.

Any other fun tips, tricks, recommendations, or other threads that have asked of similar things?

Thanks~

 

[webby3650]

There are a few fireplaces that are far superior to the entry level ZC units that will fit your space. They will require a major renovation though, there is a lot more going on behind the scenes. The units themselves will cost upwards of 5K, that wasn't the route you seemed interested in.