Riteway - Hitzer - DC Machine coal/wood stove design

[coalcracker]

greetings. I've been heating with coal since 1994 in my own home, with wood during the shoulder months October and March-April. Before that I heated with wood back at my parents house from the 1970's until 1994. We grew up heating with coal and wood so to us, it was no big deal- and a skill learned at a very young age assisting adults with the furnace and stoves.

recently I've bought an old Riteway 37 coal/wood stove, mainly just to check it out and see how it was designed, compared to my much newer Harman. Although Riteway has been out of business now for 30 years, this stove design is still being made by Hitzer and DC Machine- as the models 75 and 82, and the Riteburn, respectively.

the claim to fame for these stoves has been, they had both a direct draft and indirect draft mode. Direct draft on any stove traditionally meant the shorter route out of the stove, the flue gas just exited the top side. Indirect draft meaning a more circuitous route through the stove, maybe a few more bends or downturns, to extract more heat from the flue gas, before it exited the stove on the top side.

after buying the Riteway 37, taking it apart, and actually MEASURING the flue gas routes, I found something very interesting, if not shocking, and maybe borderline hilarious. The "direct draft" route out the top of the stove, actually is 4" longer, than the "indirect draft" out the side of the firebox to the same side outlet.

here are the actual measurements with pictures. the direct draft measures 20" from top of firebrick area, to outlet flange pipe edge

 

[coalcracker]

ok now the measurements for the so-called "indirect draft". they are only 16", that's 4" shorter than the direct draft.
this makes no sense. but this would explain why so many have trouble firing this stove, and heating with it, in indirect draft mode.

the little red arrow shows where the tape measure end is connected at the start point of the flue path, for indirect draft

 

[coalcracker]

so basically we have a design like this sketch below. this would be a view from the fire door/ash door side, with flue pipe exiting top right. the row of lines on bottom are the firebricks.
now you can see the misconception involved with this old stove design. what most operators and owners think is the "indirect" draft, it actually more direct, and is costing them heat and fuel economy.

 

[coalcracker]

some others have noticed this phenom when they closed the so-called "direct draft" and their stoves dropped in heat and lost a lot of Btu output. here's some posts. in this thread a person bought a similar Hitzer 75 design and simply could not get it to work right. most likely if he just left it in top outlet mode, it would run just fine. check this out

Re: Hitzer 75 Coal Stove.

By: Bruce M On: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:11 am Rob R. wrote:Are you running the "direct damper" with the handle in the down position? (so the flue gasses go out the side of the firebox).
Hey Rob, I have been running my stove, very similar to this one, with the diverter handle in the up position. With it in the down position it diverts the hot gasses right out of the flue without the benefit of heating the mass of metal that the firebox is. I started doing this in the really cold days when I couldn't get enough heat out of the stove to keep up. I noticed my flue was really hot 300+,and the firebox was relatively cool mid 300's.
Now when I have the stove in the exact same setting and conditions but the handle in the up position, my flue temps go way down to 210* and my stove temps go up to 412*
That diverter never made any sense to me in that why would you want to let the hot gasses escape without the benefit of its heating, I'm really not sure as to why they even have it on the stove, can you or someone enlighten me on this, am I wrong in some way. Really has been puzzling me.

 

[coalcracker]

here's another post, this guy measured the temps, read on

Re: Hitzer 75 Coal Stove.

By: Bruce M On: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:19 pm
Yes as I understand it is a riteway clone. I actually thought the Hitzer 82 and also this model shared the same design, but now that you point this out maybe they are not the same internally. I did burn wood in it this past fall and will so this spring, but I honestly forget what position the handle was in when I burnt wood. i did not get any literature with this stove as far as the operation goes, I've just went by what I could pick up on this site. I think at this point a call to DS would be warranted to get the actual low down in the operation of this stove directly from the manufacturer.

 

[coalcracker]

one more

Re: Hitzer 75 Coal Stove.

By: Bruce M On: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:49 pm LsFarm wrote:...

But an increase in flue temps HAS to be the result of a direct pathway from the fire to the flue..
More passageway=more surface to absorb heat=lower temps in the exhaust gasses..

Greg L..
And there in lies the problem. The so called indirect pathway is no more that closing the upper route and opening a route to the flue through the coal bed. What I am saying is that the air feeds from under the bed like any stove but instead of exhausting through the top the gasses now have a route right at mid depth of the coal bed. There is no extra passageway to force the exhaust up then down then up again, it just goes right on out.

 

[coalcracker]

just a word to the wise. this is something your local DC machine or Hitzer dealer will never tell you, or admit to. These findings are also being suppressed on the message board where these companies are paying sponsors. be aware of it, and if you have one, burn it in "direct draft" mode, i.e. top outlet mode, not the side draft. These stoves burn really LOUSY in indirect mode. If you do a search on the net of complaints, everyone that has one, complains it won't burn correctly. all they have to do, is flip it into direct draft mode, and it would burn a lot better.

here is a thread where someone bought one, and suffered greatly with it. there are many threads like this on the net, concerning these stoves

http://nepacrossroads.com/about25436-150.html#p346464

 

[coalcracker]

I'd like to add one more picture if I may. The green arrows show where the stoves tend to LEAK inlet draft, into combustion flue, or vice versa, depending on which side is pulling harder at the time. The inlet damper is thermostatically controlled. When I shined a flashlight down from the top on these 2 bricks, I could see the narrow slit of light from the crack between these bricks, shining into the inlet damper control valve area. These stoves are nowhere NEAR airtight and need to be completely disassembled, sealed, and rebuilt if you intend on using them for burning wood or coal. Otherwise EP- expect problems.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

OK......

 

[webbie]

coalcraker, is this by chance the same stuff you have been posting elsewhere on the internet?

If so, I'd rather you simply post one rating or review in our ratings section and then you can link to your other posts elsewhere. We don't like to clog up the board with content that exists elsewhere.

If this is all new....well, it still may be too much (perhaps you should start a blog and then link to it)......

 

[begreen]

I think this info would be more germane to the coal forum at www.nepacrossroads.com than here.

 

[coalcracker]

the thread is very relevant, allow me to explain why:
thousands of these stoves were manufactured by Riteway for over a decade. many are still in use, or up for sale. to date no one has addressed these issues. I shined a flashlight down from the top of the outlet flange pipe flue exit, and could see a slit of light at the bottom in the inlet main damper area. this means the main inlet draft and exhaust flue are only separated by those 2 firebricks that are resting slanted, and it's not an airtight seal.

if these were just old antique stoves that no one used any longer, that would be one thing. but they are still being sold new today, and being produced by the thousands, by Hitzer and DC Machine. the design has not been improved and these issues not addressed. they are being marketed as dual fuel units, wood or coal. being a new wood heater, it is very relevant here in this forum, to new prospects who may be enticed into buying one.

I've seen threads where new buyers simply can't get these stoves to work right. there's an ad right now where a guy paid $2000 for one, and is selling it for $900 on the net. He had it one month. if everyone just knew to keep it in direct draft mode, and to ignore the indirect draft setting mode, the stoves would at least work.

that is a very worthwhile goal for this thread and forum.

someone emailed a question in to woodheat.com asking about the Riteway 37. here it is below. I'm not alone on this.

Advice about a 20 year old Riteway stove
I have had a Riteway 37 since the late 70's. It has been a great stove and will burn wood or coal equally well. I burn mostly wood. I recently found a brand new Riteway Catalytic converter and would like to install it. I'm not sure how to install it since the 8" pipe comes out the side of the stove. Does the converter lay on its side or should I put an elbow on the stove and mount the converter in a vertical position? Seems like a dumb question but I really want to do it right. By the way 8" stove pipe and fittings are hard to find. This summer I would like to replace all the fire brick since they are all cracked so I will be looking for them. The stove is a real tough cookie and except for some minor stuff it has been trouble free for 20+ years. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks,
Mike
Mike,
I had a Riteway 2000 (the other model they made, smaller than the 37) for about 3 years in the early to mid 70s, and it was a really good stove for its time. It's time is not now, however. The Riteway does not owe you much. It would be an amazing experience for you to get a new EPA certified stove which would have a nice clear view of the fire, burn 2/3 the wood, produce 90% less smoke, require virtually no chimney cleaning, take up much less room, could be installed much closer to the walls and furniture. I could go on but I won't.
The catalytic add-on unit is probably not of much use. Good catalytic units are integral with the stove's internals. I've tried a few add on cats; none of them worked. They are not usually even really recommended by the manufacturer or retailer. I'd avoid it. Keep looking and I'm sure you'll find eight inch flue pipe. It is out there. As far as I know the 37 uses standard (cheap and widely available) firebrick so that should not cost you much and be easy to do.
Cal

 

[coalcracker]

I think this info would be more germane to the coal forum at www.nepacrossroads.com than here.

unfortunately, Hitzer is a sponsor of that site, and nepacrossroads is willfully deleting any posts that expose the defects of this stove. so we have a coverup of sorts going on. they are being paid ad money so they are covering it up. the downside to that is, the average consumer is flying blind. many are still buying these stoves and having a ton of problems with them.

in reality this thread, should be a sticky- if one cares about truth and protecting the consumer. these stoves are still being sold as Hitzer 75 and 82, and DC Machine Riteburn. Would you recommend one to a relative or friend, after seeing what's been posted here ?

 

[coalcracker]

just to show I'm not being unreasonable here, and don't have an axe to grind- this is what happens to the average consumer who buys one of these stoves, and isn't aware of what's been posted earlier in this thread. they pay out $2000 for a stove, and it doesn't work right, and doesn't heat. the dealer and manufacturer blames the consumer's chimney setup. so then the consumer takes it on the chin, and has to sell the stove for half price to dump it. this guy only had this stove for 2 months, paid $2000 for it, and now is selling it for $800. what if this was you, or someone in your family, or friends ? this is a travesty. having heated with coal and wood most of my life, and knowing about this, I just can't sit here and do nothing. one thing I can do is tell you about it, so you can make an educated decision- or at least fix the issues with the stove. I have a Riteway 37 bought used. I'm going to keep it in direct draft mode, cement all the gaps closed in the firebricks, and use it to heat a 2 car garage. but at least I'm aware of the problems they have, and didn't pay $2000 for it. mine was only $250 see below. this ad is only 2 months old.

http://mofga.net/Forums/tabid/56/afv/topic/aff/15/aft/1074/Default.aspx

Mitchel Mountain Farm

Seed
Posts:20

06 Nov 2013 12:40 PM
I have a Hitzer model 82F coal and wood hot air furnace that I'd like to sell. It was used once. I'm selling it because of chimney related problems that prohibit me from safely using the stove. It comes with blower and filter box, and sections of barely used galvanized stove pipe. Original price was around $2,000. I'm selling it for $800. 207-694-3851. The stove is located in Houlton.

 

[coalcracker]

more and more people are coming forward, stating that this design runs better in direct draft mode. these posts from yesterday. after a 12 page thread, the guy who started it last year, and was having all kinds of problems, simply posted "how come nobody didn't tell me keep the handle up". that's all I'm trying to do here. get the word out. keep the handle up in direct draft mode !! the indirect draft feature, doesn't work !

Re: Hitzer 75 Coal Stove.
By: samhill On: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:25 am
I have a 75 in my garage that I burn wood in (not there enough for coal) but without any temp taking or measuring just going by what I experience BD is correct, I tried different control settings & I get more heat just by using the lever up position than by directing the draft lower & get longer burn times as well.

Re: Hitzer 75 Coal Stove.
By: Bruce M On: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:01 pm
Well since that post during last years burn season and that unscientific study I did I have been burning it in the direct exhaust configuration(arm up). I have to say this beast has zero issues in heating my home this way even with these extreme cold days that have been passing through. The heat is much more uniform also, in that I mean after I fill it in the evening and give it a couple hours to settle on a temp, it will stay at that temp through to the next day unless I decide to change the setting on the bi-metal stat. Like I said in another post, It may not be the most efficient stove out there but I'll never run out of enough thermostat to make things warm in the house.

Re: Hitzer 75 Coal Stove.
By: EarthWindandFire On: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:12 pm
I created this thread eighteen months ago, how come nobody ever told me to leave the handle in the UP position ???

Re: Hitzer 75 Coal Stove.
By: Bruce M On: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:17 pm

Bruce M

Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1627 basement stove

 

[webbie]

Well, now we know. Also, this is not a coal forum and these stoves are not EPA approved for wood.....I'm gonna move this to the Classic Forum and close it down for posterity.

Oh, BTW, Riteway designed their stoves for mostly wood (and perhaps soft coal with lots of gases), which is the idea of the cross of downdraft designs. Of course, the design is now almost 40 years old so expecting it to be state-of-the-art is fruitless. The companies who make the copies do so because they don't have to pay to design and test to EPA clean air standards (claiming it is coal or a furnace, etc.)....