Small firebox but huge chimney

[jeffoc]

Please bear with me while I try to explain my situation. I see from reading here that I like many others have decided to burn wood this year.
We live in a house built in 1914, ~ 500 sq ft. It has a central fireplace on the first floor. We decided to remove the existing coal burner (i believe), and install a wood burning inseret. The chimney has been capped on the roof since we have lived there.The opening to me seemed large 30 x 30. So we based or research on that. We had decided on the Lopi Freedom or the Regency I3100. But when I removed the existing insertish thing, the opening turned out to be 11" deep. The width is about 22" in front and narrows to 20" in the back.
My uneducated guess is that I could remove the layer of bricks and mortar that I can see that seemed to have been put in to take up space, and have no weight on them. Is this a normal set up? I looked all over the thing that I removed and could find no name. It is flush fitting but has a solid cast door with no hinges. There is an air space between the box and another cast metal box that the bricks and mortar were built around. The box itself has no floor and in the floor of the masonary there is a hole that is ~4" x 2" that goes to the basement. Does any one have any idea what this setup is.
I have a guy coming on Tuesday and look at everything but he is a salesman so I am not sure how helpful he will be.

I wanted to get a large insert and attempt to heat with wood mostly as we have 10 acres of black walnut that has never been used. Any help, advice, ramblings are greatly appreciated. I searched this sight quite a bit and couldn't find anything that seemed similar to my situation.
We used this sight to pick the inserts that we had settled on originally and are now looking at our options.
Thanks

 

[bayshorecs]

Sorry, I don't know anything about inserts.

If it is that old of a house, I think I would break out the hammer myself. Maybe a few pictures posted would help too?

 

[begreen]

Is the ~500 sq ft a typo? A large stove would not be advised in this small a house.

It's hard to tell from the description, but it sounds like perhaps this is a prefab unit? Can you post a couple pictures of the existing system?

 

[jeffoc]

I should have posted some pictures. I will try and do that but won't have time until next week.
Any input is welcome. I don't know the teminology etc so I may not be explaining it well.

 

[STOVEGUY11]

Brick or metal chimney?

 

[jeffoc]

Yes that is a typo I meant about 5000 sq ft. That is why I wanted a large unit. to heat at least the downstairs. If a prefab unit was installed did they usually take an existing fireplace and brick it in or would it be more likely to build the unit to size?

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Is the house really 500 sq ft? If so- you will cook yourself with either of those inserts.

 

[jeffoc]

The chimney is brick. The bottom is approximatley 15'x8' feet wide in the basement. 5'x3' on the roof.

 

[STOVEGUY11]

What is the height of the fireplace? If you want to go with a large model, you might have to consider a freestanding model to sit outside the fireplace. At that point you would probably have to extend your hearth out and watch out for mantel clearances.

 

[begreen]

Yes, a prefab can be bricked in to mimic a built fireplace. Pictures should help.
EDIT: cross-posting here. With the additional details this is sounding less like a prefab.

FWIW, no single stove is going to heat a 5000 sq ft. old house or even close to it. That's approaching commercial level sq ftg. Was this always a family house or an old inn maybe?

It might be good to head to the boiler room to discuss a central wood fired boiler system. That's what I'd be considering in this case.

 

[jeffoc]

The fireplace is 30" tall. The room is pretty small for a freestanding stove. it is separated by french doors from the other rooms and pretty open but wouldn't really flow.

 

[begreen]

What is the height of the fireplace? If you want to go with a large model, you might have to consider a freestanding model to sit outside the fireplace. At that point you would probably have to extend your hearth out and watch out for mantel clearances.

I like that idea too. Given the huge size of the fireplace, I'd guess it has several flues in it. It wouldn't surprise me if there was originally a freestanding stove or two in the house. That opens up choices and should improve heating. The location of the stove is going to be important. Maybe consider not using this fireplace?

 

[jeffoc]

Yes, a prefab can be bricked in to mimic a built fireplace. Pictures should help.

FWIW, no single stove is going to heat a 5000 sq ft. old house or even close to it. That's approaching commercial level sq ftg. Was this always a family house or an old inn maybe?

It might be good to head to the boiler room to discuss a central wood fired boiler system. That's what I'd be considering in this case.

I will post pictures as soon as I am able. I didn't expect to heat the whole house really, I should have explained but my plan is to heat the down stairs with the insert. then there is another chimney on the back wall that I believe used to be for the kitchen and I want to put a free standing stove upstairs and go through the wall into the chimney and then up and out. That is a year or two away though.
I love the wood fired boilers but am amazed at the price. I priced one out with all I would need at about 14,000. It will take me a long time to justify that.

 

[jeffoc]

Forgot to answer, it was always a family house. Really big old farm house. You should see the size of the barn.

 

[begreen]

With that massive central chimney, it would be good to understand the house layout. You may be able to put a stove tapped into the flue on the backside. If that puts a bigger stove in a bigger room that has a central location it may work better than a parlor stove, though I'm just speculating without some sort of floorplan.

 

[begreen]

Forgot to answer, it was always a family house. Really big old farm house. You should see the size of the barn.

Wow, must have had a few generations living in it. Is the house designed to close off parts in the winter? That would help.

 

[STOVEGUY11]

The problem with the insert idea that I see is there is no maker in the industry that accomodates a 11" depth, I may be wrong. I saw you were interested in the Regency, even there small (i12oo) asks for 13 3/4" depth. Good idea with the multiple stoves. Wood stoves are not designed to heat the whole house. Just an area, so thats a good approach.

 

[jeffoc]

I was hoping to have someone tell me that the chimney was able to be knocked out a little deeper. I understand without looking at it who knows. If I could get it to 17" I would be happy. Living where I do no one around here does anything like that that I have found so far.
They are probably around I just need to find them.

I have thought seriously about going in through the back of the chimney that would put the stove in the library or dining room. But thought the insert would be a easier Idea.
Little knowledge and alot of motivation I guess.

There are a couple areas that can be closed off in the winter. If there are several flues I would be able to see them from on the roof is that correct? If I pull off the cover of the chimney?

 

[BJ64]

I should have posted some pictures. I will try and do that but won't have time until next week.

WOW this house is so huge, Jeffoc has to plan when he gets back to that end of the place :cheese:

 

[jeffoc]

WOW this house is so huge, Jeffoc has to plan when he gets back to that end of the place :cheese:[/quote]

It seems like that sometimes and when I get there something will need to be repaired.

 

[jeffoc]

Thanks to all your input some things have just occured to me that I never thought of before.
In the basement there are two furnaces that were replaced about a year before I moved in with one larger one and in the chimney two metal plugs so they must have vented there originally. Now the furnace vents through PVC at ground level.
If these two furnaces vented up through the chimney the flue or flues would have to go around the stove in the living room so there must be at least two maybe even three flues.
Does this sound correct?

 

[branchburner]

Do you like scrambling around on rooftops? Cause I sure don't, but it was the quickest way to figure out what I was dealing with. I lived in my 3-fireplace house for about ten years before I climbed up, looked at the chimney top and saw three tile-lined flues of different size for the different-sized fireplaces (hey, they did it right!).

 

[begreen]

I was hoping to have someone tell me that the chimney was able to be knocked out a little deeper. I understand without looking at it who knows. If I could get it to 17" I would be happy. Living where I do no one around here does anything like that that I have found so far.
They are probably around I just need to find them.

I have thought seriously about going in through the back of the chimney that would put the stove in the library or dining room. But thought the insert would be a easier Idea.
Little knowledge and alot of motivation I guess.

There are a couple areas that can be closed off in the winter. If there are several flues I would be able to see them from on the roof is that correct? If I pull off the cover of the chimney?

Correct. Have the chimney's been cleaned since you've lived in the house? Having a sweep check them out would be a good plan. If they were coal or oil connected, it may be obvious to the sweep or yourself once you look down the flue. Coal and oil flues tend to be cleaner, but with a thin film of oily, black soot (assuming they were run correctly).

It's natural to take the path of least work and cost, but often that is not the best solution for heating. With a floorplan posted that locates the chimney, we can make a suggestion or two for optimal location. Then you'll have to think about rearranging the room. A nice stove like the Hearthstone Equinox is like a piece of furniture and will compliment the room year round.

 

[jeffoc]

The chimneys been covered with a sheet metal plate since I have lived there. I did get up on the roof and try to remove it at one point but couldn't get it off. If I could find a sweep I would gladly have him check it out for me. I have had no luck so far.
I have nothing against spending the money. If that was the problem I'd have a pipe out the window already. I just need to find a local guy who know what they are doing.
I have someone coming next week to try and sell me something but he wasn't even sure he could still get wood units and wanted me to check out the gas models before he came.
I do appreciate everyones input.
I can't do a floor plan right now but the chimney is centrally located in the dead center basically of the house. FIreplace is in the living room going diagonally across one wall. The back of the chimney faces the library and dining room with french doors on one side and a solid door on the other. In the attic the chimney twists 45 degrees and moves over to the side so it exits square with the roof, At one time I thought the twist would be my biggests challenge.

 

[begreen]

The flues may be sealed off for safety reasons. Hard to say without an inspection. It's good that you have a central chimney. The most important thing is to try and locate the stove so that it heats the core of the house where you hang out the most. If the room has large openings to allow circulation of the stove heat, that's all the better. As far as connecting it, if there is a decent flue with a large enough cross section, then a flexible liner should be able to get down past the twist to stove level.