Smoke when starting a fire -- Is it possible?...

[szumbrun]

...To start a fire in a stove without getting ANY smoke coming into the room initially? It seems like after a minute or so, everything is good
to go and the smoke is going where it is supposed to, but with that first light, smoke-in-room seems unavoidable. I have a napoleon 1400
with stove pipe straight up 30", then offset horizontally 15"with 2 45s, then straight up internal chimney (16') from there.
Thanks,
Steve

 

[Dune]

Works for me. Why don't you describe your fire lighting method in detail.

 

[FixedGearFlyer]

We light eight or 9 pieces of dry kindling on a bed of 2 or 3 small (2 or 3 inch) rounds using 4 Nantucket Knots, top down. After she's rolling, we add a few larger splits and watch it take off. We never get smoke in our room.

I think the top-down method helps establish an early draft. Have you ever tried that?

 

[szumbrun]

So this is my first stove and I've had it for a week now. Maybe I'm doing it totally wrong but here's what I do:

1. Crumble up 2-3 pages of newspaper
2. build a small TeePee out of bark/small pieces of wood
3. Light the newspaper
4. After the wood catches, I add increasingly larger pieces of wood.

 

[szumbrun]

FGF,
Have not ever tried top down. What are nantucket nuggets? Also, how do you generate the kindling from your wood. I feel very clumsy at it with
my axe, trying to "shave" off pieces by hacking at it. This is very inefficient and there must be a better way.

 

[Dune]

One thought right off the bat, maybe you should try some firestarters, like super cedars.

I don't do the top down thing, but it works for a lot of people.

I crumple about 50 sheets (seriously). Then a good amount of kindling, then some smallish splits. Then I light it. The large amount of newspaper (cardboard also works for this) creates a good draft fast, as well as getting the fire going easily. Because I have loaded enough fuel in the stove, I don't have to open it for loading until there is a very well established draft. The draft is what prevents the smoke from coming out.

 

[thewoodlands]

...To start a fire in a stove without getting ANY smoke coming into the room initially? It seems like after a minute or so, everything is good
to go and the smoke is going where it is supposed to, but with that first light, smoke-in-room seems unavoidable. I have a napoleon 1400
with stove pipe straight up 30", then offset horizontally 15"with 2 45s, then straight up internal chimney (16') from there.
Thanks,
Steve

We have a Lopi Liberty, we open the by-pass and the air before starting.

Steve I got rid of the paper and went with small splits on the bottom (fire starter next to the back split and front split, light the fire starters) then add your kindling and let it get going then add some small splits once the stack temp is 350.

I found out on our setup the paper would create more smoke before the draft was good so I got rid of the paper.


zap

 

[firefighterjake]

...To start a fire in a stove without getting ANY smoke coming into the room initially? It seems like after a minute or so, everything is good
to go and the smoke is going where it is supposed to, but with that first light, smoke-in-room seems unavoidable. I have a napoleon 1400
with stove pipe straight up 30", then offset horizontally 15"with 2 45s, then straight up internal chimney (16') from there.
Thanks,
Steve

I think you'll find most folks here will tell you that it is extremely rare for them to get any smoke in the room . . . the two exceptions being when the install has resulted in a chimney with a less than optimal draft (often corrected by adding another length of chimney or a chimney liner) or in the shoulder season when temps outside are close to or sometimes even warmer than the temps inside.

If your problem is due to the temps outside and inside being close to each other . . . this is an easy fix . . . and it should correct itself when you start burning 24/7 or simply when the cooler winter temps hit us full force. In the meantime you need to establish a draft in your chimney . . . some folks do this by lighting some paper or cardboard or a fire starter such as a Super Cedar or even a torch . . . other folks can establish the draft by simply opening a nearby window a crack.

If in middle of the winter you find that you are still getting smoke coming out of the stove you may in fact have a less than optimal draft and may need to add on to the chimney, add a liner or take some other action.

In my own case the only time I really get any smoke coming out is when I am burning in the shoulder season and forget to open the nearby window a crack . . . sounds crazy, but just opening the window helps a lot.

Finally, the top down fire mentioned here also helps . . . it helps in that it establishes a draft quickly . . . you don't have to constantly add more wood to the fire and open the stove door all the way . . . and you don't have to worry about the heavier splits falling down on the burning kindling and suffocating the fire.

 

[FixedGearFlyer]

FGF,
Have not ever tried top down. What are nantucket nuggets? Also, how do you generate the kindling from your wood. I feel very clumsy at it with
my axe, trying to "shave" off pieces by hacking at it. This is very inefficient and there must be a better way.

A Nantucket Knot is a large sheet of newspaper unfolded and laid flat, then rolled corner-to-corner. After rolling it, tie it into a loose overhand knot. I think that the Nanny Knots (as my todder calls them) work much better than just crumpling newspaper into a loose ball. The crumpled newspaper expands, shifts, and smokes as it burns, while the knots hold their shape and burn longer and hotter.

I find that the top down method creates a lot less smoke than putting the paper under the kindling. Give it a shot!

And, at the moment, I'm using the scraps left over from putting pine tongue and groove on our second floor walls and ceiling for kindling. Otherwise, I would have split some dry pine with an ax. I only burn hardwood, with the exception of dry pine kindling. I find that the easiest way to split off the kindling pieces is to old the ax a few inches below the head, hit the wood with it so it 'sticks', the pick the entire thing up about a foot - wood and all - and hit solid ground or my splitting block with it. The inertia of the ax head will carry it through the wood and split off the kindling. It's much easier than swinging at the wood with a full stroke! A sharp ax helps.

 

[Battenkiller]

Also, how do you generate the kindling from your wood. I feel very clumsy at it with my axe, trying to "shave" off pieces by hacking at it. This is very inefficient and there must be a better way.

Use your axe to split off some planks about 1/2-3/4" wide, then split the kindling from them with a smaller tool. I found an old meat cleaver at an antique store. It works so well I don't even keep a hatchet near the stove anymore.

You can also keep a lookout for construction sites with scrap piles. You'll mostly find small triangular cutoffs and such, but these split up real easy with a small hatchet or meat cleaver. If you have a large heavy knife or a machete, you can use a very small round as a mallet to drive the knife through the boards. It's called "battoning", and keeps the fingers attached... especially if you're clumsy with an axe.

 

[Battenkiller]

I find that the easiest way to split off the kindling pieces is to old the ax a few inches below the head, hit the wood with it so it 'sticks', the pick the entire thing up about a foot - wood and all - and hit solid ground or my splitting block with it. The inertia of the ax head will carry it through the wood and split off the kindling.

Better to pick the entire thing and turn it upside down and drop the back of the axe against the chopping block. The split has more mass than the axe head and, therefore, more momentum. It gets driven down through and basically splits itself. There's a knack to it, but once you get the hang of it, it works very well. Once the split gets lighter than the axe head, other methods works better.

 

[szumbrun]

Thanks for the great suggestions!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

szumbrun, do you have a hydraulic splitter? If so, making kindling is child's play and you can make a lot of it in only a little time. We use soft maple as it splits easy, dries fast, lights easy and burns hot. It gets the fire going quickly.

I've posted before that my wife struggles with new fires. She has done much better this year since we've started using the Super Cedars. This morning it was a bit cool in the house (frosty morning) so I started the stove. She was amazed at how quickly the stove warmed up. We have a cat stove so we want 250 stove top before engaging the cat. I did not pay any attention to the time but as stated, she was amazed how quickly it got to 250 and then once the cat is engaged, the temperature really goes up fast. So I once more showed her how to start the fire; I hope it sticks.

I place 2 splits on the bottom so they are touching and forming a slight V where they come together. I then place 1/4 Super Cedar and lit it. I then laid kindling in a crossways fashion and on top of that one split. I lucked out in that the fire really took off and we haven't added anything to it yet.

 

[branchburner]

So this is my first stove and I've had it for a week now. Maybe I'm doing it totally wrong but here's what I do:

1. Crumble up 2-3 pages of newspaper
2. build a small TeePee out of bark/small pieces of wood
3. Light the newspaper
4. After the wood catches, I add increasingly larger pieces of wood.

This is how I build a fire in a fireplace or outdoors. It sounds like your initial fire is smaller than it needs to be, meaning you are opening the door sooner than needed. With a stove, get some SLIGHTLY bigger pieces on board BEFORE lighting up. I don't want to open the door between step 3 and step 4, so the steps are altered slightly:

1. Crumble up 2-3 pages of newspaper
2. Build a small TeePee (or wigwam, longhouse or chickee) out of bark/small pieces of wood
3. Add increasingly larger pieces of dry wood, crushing your delicate native American structure, but crisscrossing to allow airflow
4. THEN light the newspaper, and you won't need to open the door quite as soon after the wood catches, now that some larger pieces of wood are already in the stove. This will allow the flue to warm up and draft better. Once the big pieces catch and that burns down a little, you should be able to open and reload without smoke.

 

[FixedGearFlyer]

Better to pick the entire thing and turn it upside down and drop the back of the axe against the chopping block. The split has more mass than the axe head and, therefore, more momentum. It gets driven down through and basically splits itself. There's a knack to it, but once you get the hang of it, it works very well. Once the split gets lighter than the axe head, other methods works better.

Oooh . . . I'm taking a 15 minute break to go try that. Great idea!

 

[begreen]

It sounds like the mild temps are causing a lazy draft. As it gets colder, this problem will probably go away.

 

[jeff_t]

I have the same problem if my furnace is dead cold. I just build my usual fire, light the firestarter, then lay a full sheet of newspaper, loosely folded in half, on top. I'll light the paper if the firestarter doesn't catch the paper right away. The paper burns up in 10 seconds or less and warms the pipe enough that smoke goes up like it's supposed to. If I don't do this, I'll have a basement full of smoke before I get enough draft. I haven't had to do it for a while now because the furnace hasn't completely cooled down. Pretty soon the fire won't go out.

 

[fire_man]

One thought right off the bat, maybe you should try some firestarters, like super cedars.

I don't do the top down thing, but it works for a lot of people.

I crumple about 50 sheets (seriously). Then a good amount of kindling, then some smallish splits. Then I light it. The large amount of newspaper (cardboard also works for this) creates a good draft fast, as well as getting the fire going easily. Because I have loaded enough fuel in the stove, I don't have to open it for loading until there is a very well established draft. The draft is what prevents the smoke from coming out.

Dune: Seriously? 50 sheets of newspaper? WOW! That sounds like it would be an inferno! I can see why you would not have an initial draft problem. I would go crazy crumpling 50 sheets every time I lit a fire from scratch. I have been using 1/4 disk of super cedar with kindling (just some lose bark). The super cedar burns hot enough to "break" the draft - although your way would work better if starting a fire from scratch when it was very cold out.We only start fires from scratch in the shoulder season. I am sold on these super cedars and just ordered a batch.