Snow load bracing

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MR. GLO

Feeling the Heat
Jan 26, 2021
367
Massachusetts
Snow wedge + better bracing

When you say bracing where? Above he snow guard?

My chimney sits at the bottom of the roof almost touching a gutter and I am putting a metal roof on this year. I was thinking standing seam platform and vent saver

https://snoblox-snojax.com/content/SS-VentSaver-cutsheet.pdf

and then a some type of wedge above it with a snow bar above that.

Maybe overkill... If we get over 2 feet of snow that would be a problem.

I have seen the wedges fail... Here is an example


any other ideas?
 
I doubt the OP is on the thread anymore, but I'd think on the UP, you'd either have to move the pipe; or accept that you're asking for trouble, and go with serious, brute force (custom, very heavy duty armoring), for the reasons below:

Mr. GLO, If it were me, I'd try to find out what works and doesn't in your area. Around here, it's just a fact of life that anything that doesn't penetrate within a few feet of the peak is going to give a lot of trouble, even with a comp roof. Not knocking people's products, but nothing I've seen linked in the thread is up to the job for a down the roof pipe in serious snow areas. If it was, it would probably be too heavy and cumbersome to ship affordably.

The gradual mauling and mangling of folks summer cabins kind of helps mark the passage of the winter months here. So, maybe there's an idea for you in what I see. There's no code here, so it's build-what-you-feel-like, and folks do! I could take a half hour drive around and get 10 pictures of mid-slope pipes pushed down the roof by wedges (aka crickets) that were crushed into fins or ripped completely off, and probably just as many tieback supports that have been bent into a U pulling the stovepipe back toward the peak. Tiebacks that attach mid slope take the brunt of sliding snow, and those that run close to the peak are often long spans vulnerable to damage when the snow slides out from under them pulling down on the middle of the long span.

You've the worst situation by being at the bottom of the roof. I know of large masonry chimneys that have been pushed over from being in that location, when the wedge failed.

You could make or have made a wedge made that would not crush - maybe 1/4" aluminum with a lot of interior bracing. Then you have to anchor it to the roof structure with equivalent seriousness. The wedge needs to be as wide as the pipe, for as far up as sliding snow will be able to reach on the wedge. I see that mistake a lot. It the snow gets ahold of the pipe a few feet above the roof, it gets a lot of leverage on the pipe that way.

One big thing to think about, is a wedge isn't a wedge if the snow can't be wedged away for some reason. Standing seam is going to seriously impede wedging (and might also get damaged in the effort), as will a nearby valley or other obstruction. And, sometimes the snow just gets to a consistency where it refuses to be wedged. If there's a layer of compacted snow or ice on the bottom engaged with the roofing, that slab of snow is like a slab of concrete, set on rails. If the wedge can't wedge, it becomes a brake, which is not a bad thing, as long as it's up the huge forces that will be exerted on it, and the roof is ok holding the weight of the snow that isn't sliding off.

You might consider more of a brake, than a wedge, if you have standing seam, and not tons of snow. Something stout as hell, as tall as the snow that accumulates, and angled just slightly to the sides to promote water drainage. The idea being just to keep the snow there and away from your chimney until spring. Downside - you'd probably get big icicles at some point from this. I've seen little success here with the shorter 3-4" snow brakes used along the slope of the roof. The snow is like a glacier, and always moving slowly down despite the little brakes. They might help though, if your snow doesn't last long enough, or your roof isn't steep enough, for it to move substantially.

If 2 feet of snow is a lot for you, then a lot less than the measures we have to go to, would be appropriate. Again, I think it comes down to seeing what others are getting by with in your area, factoring in how much roof you have uphill of what you want to protect, unless you just want to build bomb-proof (nothing wrong with that, either, one and done is always nice).
 
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@MR. GLO regular bracing (for wind) and a roof cricket should be sufficient to redirect snow and ice run off.
 
Thanks for the info. Yep you are correct I have the worst situation and it gets even worse ...another roofline just a tad higher and behind it but facing away... But my roof is 6 pitch (i think). If it was a greater pitch I guess it would be the worst roof ever.

I leaned this week:

Even a wedge wont stop a sheet of snow sliding if it is over 2 feet. And some wedges will fail fast without any middle bracing and bracing to the pipe. The snow rides over the wedge and clips the chimney top.

When I looked at the websites of the manufactures they dont show any videos of snow falling or actual install videos which is an alarm bell to me. Snow terminator website says it will not work if snow runs over 24 inches....Snoblox, HD model company says its only designed for chimneys or pipes on the roof and not near the gutters like mine, but I plan on ordering the plate soon.

To keep the ice from falling below a rail you need to get the sno clip/snap clip under the rail this stops the ice from falling and it melts on roof. Otherwise the bars are just for snow retention. Many roofers dont want to take the time to add these clips or feet.
https://s-5.com/products/snow-retention or some other company will work. I had them on my last home and they stopped the ice from falling onto the roof below and denting it..

The snow terminator is metal (will rust) and looks very strong. The ventis model (sold at rockford chimney or olympia) model looks like it needs more support in the middle and can be set to different widths and is SS. For my setup I might not have the room (width) for the Snow Terminator due to the other roofline and its possible a wedge wont work for me unless it covers the other roofline a little and they are slightly different heights.

Still planning but if I put it on the mounting base plate I will have to cheat and install the base plates (2 of them to get an enough area to screw onto) where they hang low on the roof near the gutters for a slight over hang and then cheat on the wedge a little so it gets close to the chimney pipe. Then I am going to brace the pipe to the wedge with some type of ss banding or bar and use another strap like that comes with the duravent brace kit. I want the wedge to be close to the pipe for more support and not have any ice dams behind it near the gutter.....But once again I might not be able to get close to the pipe because of the other roofline is slightly higher I might need to put a large wedge over 2 roof lines.

Reason: And a wedge near the edge of the roofline directly above the chimney might just channel the water puddles of water into the metal trim flashing near the other roofline (possible ice dams) or there might not be enough install room to center the wedge.

The duravent roof brackets poles (2) are going to attach to the standing seam with s5 fasteners so no drilling into roof again.

I could be stuck with just snow rail guards because I could be making the problem worse with ice and rain.

s5 just says use a snow retention. Waiting on my roofer to see what he suggest and will post photos after the install.

With the asphalt roof this year I had no issues.

Thanks for the help.
 

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The OP has not been on the forum for a year. There were many issues with his chimney installation. Hopefully, the problems were solved correctly. Moved to a new thread. This thread is more about preventative measures instead of remediation.

@MR. GLO. The chimney needs to be braced at every 5 ft above the roof. How many feet above the roof will the chimney extend?
 
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its braced again at 5 feet above the last side connection with two rods, but as you know thats not enough for metal roofs.
 
its braced again at 5 feet above the last side connection with two rods, but as you know thats not enough for metal roofs.
Getting the angle of the brace to the chimney helps maximize its strength.
 
ya but that will help very little with snow on metal roof sliding. duravent brace its at 60 degree angle according to instructions but will change to 45 .....
 
wobbly and long stretch