So.....has it been determined......

[Garyvol]

So….has it been determined……which system of wood stove is better. The secondary burn system or the
catalytic burn system. I assume the cat. system is more of a maintenance issue.
-gary

 

[Todd]

Both have their advantages and disadvantages, there is no better than the other. It's more up to the user which one is better for them.

Me, I like the cats. Maintenance is not an issue. The cat slips right out and fly ash is easily brushed or vacuumed out in a few minutes, about once every cord of wood or so. I like the long even burns, and less tweaking of air controls I use to have with non cats when conducting low burns.

 

[webbie]

It will never be fully determined, just like you cannot say whether gas or diesel is best. Both are suitable for different situations. Cat stoves will generally cost more, and that is a consideration. Maintenance is more an issue of a specific model and the parts cost and complexity. Every stove will need a certain amount of work, but some will cost vastly more in labor and materials.

 

[Shane]

Ah, we have ourselves a pot-stirrer!

 

[oldAGE]

I might have a 2000 VC Encore 2550 CAT for sale if you want it. I'll let you know this weekend.
AGE

 

[Garyvol]

I assume the tool of choice for cleaning a catalytic can either be
a shop vac to vacuum the device or take it outside and use a leaf blower to
blow out the residue from the device.

Then based on my other 8 inch flue pipe thread, if I upgrade to a catalytic wood stove 6 inch flue, I can get the 6 inch to 8 inch adapter for the triple air cooled metal chimney and should still have good draft.
Inaddition, the cat. stove should be putting out very little creosote to worry about as I increase the stove pipe size from 6 to 8 inches. Finally, would moisture from the exiting smoke in the chimney be any thing to worry about being a metal chimney
Any thoughts from my mentors.

ps oldage, I live in ma. most likely a logistic delivery problem
-gary

 

[oldAGE]

Thanks Gary. I just throw that out there for entertainment value but it could very well be a reality if someone is interested.

As for the VC products that I and others have, they can be vented 6" or 8". There are a couple of reasons/solutions. On my Encore, according to the manual, you can't run the stove opened with the spark screen (like a fireplace) unless it's 8" all the way from the outlet of the stove. I have all DuraVent DVL to an 8" DuraVent SS chimney. Yes to the creosote. I am not a 24x7 burner but I use the stove from Oct to April and burn more than casually. I have always inspected my pipes and the first time I cleaned, it was after five years of use and I was able to get merely a 1/4 brown lunch bag worth of gunk out of nearly 28 ft. of pipe. She runs very cleanly. I burn only seasoned hardwoods -- oak, hickory, elm, maple, cherry, etc.

Yes, cleaning the cat is fairly simple, a light vacuum is all you need. On the Encore, you have to remove the lower fireback to get good access to the refractory package to clean things out. An incredibly gentle touch is necessary on the ceramic. A quick access method is by simply removing the refractory vent hood and a 1 1/4 soft shopvac hose would fit for a non thorough but quick clean. Finally, I would assume that your chimney is stainless and it will get hot so I wouldn't worry about the moisture.

Finally, this word of advice, Vermont Castings has raised their prices according to all the suppliers that I have talked to. I have recently paid for the following - Secondary Air Probe Assembly - $61 plus shipping. $140 (discounted) for a new OEM Catalytic Combustor plus shipping. $138 for a new refractory assembly as long as I could wait two weeks (the cheapest I found). I could have had one in two days for $285 plus shipping. And finally, $85 (discounted) for a service call to have the "tech" tell me that "there is nothing wrong with your stove..."

When my stove was working like new (up until Christmas Day), I loved it. Good heat, low fuel usage, and a predictable method of use. Right now, I am looking to "simplify" if the costs above to make it work like it has for the past seven years don't "fix" my "problem."

AGE

 

[swestall]

CAT OR NON-CAT: That is the question.

In Vermont Castings there is no question-CAT. The problem is they are supposedly planning to abandon the CAT stoves in 2010 or so.

The VC EVERBURN (and other stoves that license this same technology) is tempermenatal and it is my experience that one can not rely on it to perform without constant attention or consistently from installation to installation. (home to home)

The NON-CAT stoves that emply secondary tubes or baffles seem to perform reliably across the majority of brands. Stove design itself varies as does the effectiveness of the burn. But these stoves do seem to burn clean, providing varying levels of good to excellent efficiency while minimizing creosote formation. They also have less cost intensive maintenance.

Most brands of stoves that employ CAT technology also burn very well. It is my observation that they are less draft sensitive, making them a good choice for installations where the user wishes to continue to use a clay flue without relining. And, they do burn hot which can lead to some metal fatigue or replacement of the CAT, gasklets or seam sealant on a slightly more frequent basis than their tube/baffle cousins.

 

[Garyvol]

That’s great info. But I wonder if the Defiant NON-CAT stove is simply a glorified version of my old Defiant style air tight Scandia that uses the inward slanting firewall (holes along the bottom ) as a secondary burn system when placed in that mode.

Inother words, the unit will burn like a cigar and the exiting smoke is forced around and behind the firewall (I think for an additional burn) to the other end of the stove and then exits up the chimney. So, except for not having an air wash system (can’t put any glass on the doors) maybe I should stay with this stove for a while, seeing how complicated the new stoves seem to be. Just thinking out loud on this one.
-gary

 

[oldAGE]

There are plenty of "non complicated" new stoves. I have been struggling with my seven year old VC Encore and I was willing to pay for someone to tell me definatively what was wrong. But, in my neck of the woods, dealer support is slim to none for Vermont Castings. I know more about the stove than the dealer and their techs. Being that I am now throwing expensive parts at it and trying to rationalize my problem with perceived parts failures, I find that there are very simple and good looking cast iron stoves out there comparatively speaking. I had always heard of the quality of VC but in the end, they have been sold twice since my purchase and my original dealer is now gone. So, in the end, I looked at Jotul's F400 and F500 and both seem to be very simple and easy to "work" on.

The cleaning and replacement of a CAT should be simple but in the end, you are dealing with two fairly fragile parts (refractory and combustor) and both eventually become an expense that has become even more expensive -- some are reporting a 100% increase in VC parts (I have experienced that myself to some degree). The Jotul burn tubes are reported to be very simple to replace as well as the firebrick (very inexpensive to boot). It seems to be a very simple design without the complexity of the new Everburn or CAT products from VC. Plenty of options as far as I can tell.

AGE