Some thoughts on the American Chestnut and the Emerald Ash Borer

[ScotO]

I have long been fascinated by the legacy that the American Chestnut tree has had in my area. From stories told by old-timers who spoke of huge dead snags all over the surrounding mountains, to the occasional barn tear-down finding some wormy chestnut beams. These trees were GIANTS of the northeast back in the day. Destroyed by a foriegn blight that the trees never saw coming. It's been told that back in the old days, a squirrel could get on an American Chestnut tree in Louisiana, jump from one to another and another, and not have to touch the ground until he got to New Hampshire! It's also been speculated that the demise of the AC tree also led to the demise of the carrier pigeons (that was a staple food to those birds, so I've been told). Anyway, if any of you have heard of The American Chestnut Foundation (TACF, for short), you will have known that they have been doing an amazing job with their program of 'backbreeding' our AC trees with the blight-resistant Chinese Chestnut tree since around 1989. Here's a brief explanation of that process as found on their webpage:

"TACF’s backcross breeding program took Chinese chestnut trees, naturally resistant to the blight, and crossed them with their American cousins, resulting in trees that were 50% American, 50% Chinese. These trees were then backcrossed to the American species, resulting in trees which were 75% American. The procedure was repeated to produce an American chestnut tree that retains no Chinese characteristics other than blight resistance. A second research farm in Meadowview was donated to TACF in 1995 by Mary Belle Price, in memory of her late husband Glenn C. Price, a strong supporter of TACF. A third Meadowview farm was purchased in 2002, and a fourth in 2006. Today, TACF’s Meadowview Research Farms have over 30,000 trees at various stages of breeding, planted on more than 160 acres of land."

To my understanding, they are a couple years away from having a tree that is 90-some percent American Chestnut, but with the full blight resistance of it's Chinese cousin. Ok, so now to the root of my question, which is where the Emerald Ash borer comes into play. Has any research been done yet to see if we can do a "backbreeding" program between the Asian Ash tree (which to the best of my knowledge is fairly resilient to the EAB) and the ash trees on our continent? I'm no scientist by any measure, but I am interested in what others with more knowledge may think about this question. It would be a SHAME to see all of our ash trees decimated by the EAB (which is exactly what is going to happen), so should someone with the knowledge and know-how start up a program before we lose all our ash trees? If we're not going to start spraying for these invasive insects really soon, we have to figure out something to save our ash trees. Not sure if this is the right forum to put this in, so mods, if you need to move this elsewhere, I understand. It's just something that has been eating at me for some time......

Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_ash_borer
http://www.acf.org/

 

[basod]

They're using the pollen/nuts from this Chestnut - found not too far from my house for research/crossbreeding.
http://www.annistonstar.com/pages/full_story/push?article-A rare American chestnut tree discovered in Talladega National Forest is largest in the state &id=3077354-A rare American chestnut tree discovered in Talladega National Forest is largest in the state

 

[fishingpol]

I was thinking this a few weeks ago Scotty. I don't know the answer to your question. There are a lot of products made out of ash for its' qualities and relatively inexpensive cost. I don't know if there is a low cost subsitute species that will be used.

Does anyone see suckers growing from the base of dead ash trees that were EAB killed?

 

[clemsonfor]

As a forester i have a small interest in this, but one problem with spraying in non target insects. As far as a backbreeding program, i have heard no talk about it. The red bay borer and oak wilt are next, its one after the other.

 

[Woody Stover]

I saw a special on KET a couple months ago about the demise of the Chestnut and the impact it had around here. It was a huge part of the rural economy. The lumber was sold not only in this country, but internationally for ship-building etc. They would ship railroad cars full of nuts all over the country. People would let their hogs loose in the hills to gorge on the nuts when they fell. There were so many nuts that they would roll down the hills and pack up against fallen logs like drifted snow.

It looks like the program is coming back around, for those of you who can pick up the KET-KY sub-channel. I get it OTA...
http://www.ket.org/tvschedules/episode.php?nola=KCHES+000000

 

[The Beagler]

Nothing surprises me anymore with science. Take American Elm for example. There are now varieties of American Elm (Valley Forge & Princeton to name a few) that are resistant to Dutch Elm disease. These can be bought at local nurseries right now!
I sure hope the ash trees don't go the way of the American chestnut. Two huge ash trees are going downhill fast very close to where I live. One is on my uncle's property. It is a huge tree. My grandma said that tree was as big as it is today when she was a little girl. If she were still alive, she'd be 113! The other tree is easily 150 + yrs old. It seemed to start dying this year. I'm sure the droughts we've had haven't helped either.

 

[The Beagler]

Scotty, there is a soil drench that can be applied to the base of ash trees that kill the EAB. It has to be done yearly, otherwise, the tree will likely become infested. Fertilome is the manufacturer of this drench. They sell it at year round garden centers. Don't know how much you'd have to use for a big tree. I've heard that once a tree is showing signs of the EAB, it's too late.

 

[Dave_B]

I was talking my BIL again about the ash and ash borer, a horticulturist, over the weekend. He said there is a program already under way with the Chinese ash which is resitant now to the EAB. I don't know specifics but it sounds like it is possible to do the same with the ash as was done with the chestnut.

 

[ScotO]

Thanks for the input, guys. It truly is amazing how they are hybridizing our trees with resistant ones, it be a damm shame to lose the ash tree altogether. Take a walk around here in my area, there's a ton of ash (I'd say probably at LEAST 20 to 30% of our local forests ......I think this is a topic worthy discussion for all of us here.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Thanks for the information Scott. That indeed is interesting. As for the ash, my hope is any new growth won't be hit by the borers as they will have moved on. I do have one ash that I have not checked on for quite some time but will check on it. This one grew from a stump of an ash that I cut several years ago. It might be interesting to see how it is doing and hopefully it is still alive. If it is, then this gives some hope for sure.

 

[TimJ]

i second that............thanks for sharing the info Scott

 

[DexterDay]

Our Boy Scout Camp has a Cabin built from Worm Wood Chesnut. A Chinese Organization (please forgive me, but I dont recall who) offered them several Million Dollars for the Entire Cabin. Every year we still Tour through it. Its an amazing sight. Not just the wood, but the construction of this Huge Cabin. Those Men really had there Chit together. Building skills like that, dont show up that often. Some have passed on the skill/knowledge/trade. Just hope it continues on for generations.

Thanks for the info Scotty..

 

[Thistle]

Dont forget Butternut Canker,its wiped out up to 90% of the trees in several northeastern states.Is Threatened in most states,some classified as Endangered.American/White,Slippery/Red & Rock Elms are still plentiful around here,though most are much smaller than the original ones killed off in the 60's & 70's.They are producing seed at a much younger age than before,so hopefully that means resistance eventually.

Back until the Chestnut Blight hit,up to 40% of the Appalacian forest was American Chestnut,it was truly a 'cradle to grave' wood - used for everything from infant cradles to coffins,rough framing,flooring,fenceposts (both split rails & rounds),furniture,& before synthetics - tannins used in tanning leather & other hides.European Chestnut is more resistant ( but not totally) to the blight,one use still today in Modena,Italy is small staved barrels for aging balsamic vinegar.4-5 barrels are used - different woods,each one smaller than the previous one.Mulberry,Ash,Chestnut,Oak etc.From 5 to 1 gallon in size generally.

 

[osagebow]

Been following the chestnut program for a few years. My grandfather had a few Italian chestnut trees and sold seedlings in the Fairmont WV area, where a lot of his trees can still be found. I think planting them here would be a mistake, because as we have lots of native suckers on the yard edge that carry the blight and die. I don't think the Italian / European varieties are quite as resistant as the chinese strains, even though they are descended from them. I Have considered planting chinese but think I'll wait on the 90% Americans to be more readily available so I can plant a bunch.

Good question about ash breeding, thanks Scotty, Dave, Thistle and others - interesting stuff.
No EAB here yet but VA seems to be giving up on quarantine. They still have put the purple rectangle EAB survey traps out, though. Anybody know how those work?

 

[AJS56]

Interesting info, thanks for sharing this Scotty. I am (was) not familiar with the Chesnut tree and it's demise. Regarding the EAB ASH issue mentioned by others, I have an ash stand in my woods that looks good right now, but I have two ash trees in the yard that are infected. One is smaller and I am letting that one die -will be cutting it down this fall. We have a larger one near the house, maybe 16-20 in DBH that we have had treated with
Emamectin benzoate (see p9 in linked document) via the injection method. The "tree guy" who is established and also does lawn serive in the area has treated hundreds successfully and is virtualy sure he can save ours. But it requires treatments every year or two at about $250-275 a pop.

I sure hope that some reverse breeding process as you describe can work. Again, thanks for sharing!

 

[golfandwoodnut]

We bought a rental property near WVU that has all chestnut oak hardwood floors, they are really nice, atleast once you remove the beer stains (WVU is the number one party school in case you didn't know, my son helped contribute). I remember when I was a kid hunting in the woods and seeing some large stumps that were remnants of the Chestnut Oak. I guess it is too late for my Ash trees, I even had the largest Ash tree ever recorded in PA on my property. I am going to leave it stand for quite awhile as I have more than I can handle now. A forester did tell me that it will send up many shoots from the roots as they are still very vibrant. So someday they may regenerate.

 

[cptoneleg]

Chestnut Oaks are alive and well here on my place I think the American Chestnut is different.

 

[golfandwoodnut]

This house was built in the 30s and I believe it was American Chestnut. As I understand it the American Chestnut first got infected in the early 1900's and it took 50 years to change to look of the forests.

 

[blades]

I believe, here in Wisconsin- north west side, there is a very carefully protected stand of American Chestnut Trees. I do not remember any details at this point. I started couple of American Chestnut ( hybrid) trees at my place a few years ago, Dang deer keep chewing on them, but they are getting bigger now and its becoming less of a problem.

 

[ScotO]

I believe, here in Wisconsin- north west side, there is a very carefully protected stand of American Chestnut Trees. I do not remember any details at this point. I started couple of American Chestnut ( hybrid) trees at my place a few years ago, Dang deer keep chewing on them, but they are getting bigger now and its becoming less of a problem.

I'd love to get some seeds of the backcrossed American Chestnuts, but I don't have three hundred dollars to dish out for a TACF membership (which would get you 2, yes only 2 seeds!). I'd love to see a big American Chestnut tree over on the farm before I die.........maybe make it a legacy tree for my family.

 

[Ralphie Boy]

The main section of my in-laws’ home in Upstate NY (Chatham) was built in 1790 and the floor beams and rafters are Chestnut logs cut from the property. All the doors and trim are Chestnut as well; beautiful wood, even after over 200 years of use.

As for EAB; I just cut a 26” Blue Ash that had about a dozen leaves left in the crown. I’ve got 3 more huge blues and one white left to cut. It’s sad to see them in their current state; too much money to try to treat trees in the woods so it’s firewood for their end.

Best of luck to the men and women of science trying to find cures and fixes. It seems like a never ending job with far too much security.

 

[mywaynow]

There is a 1700s house near me that is on the slate to be demolished. Would there be Chestnut beams in there? Anybody have pics of some beams?

 

[weatherguy]

The elementary school I went to back in the late 60s-70s had 3-4 of them on the grounds, during the fall we used to toss up branches to knock the nuts down, we didnt eat them we just collected them like they were money. Ill have to take a ride by there to see if those trees are still there, after reading up on these I doubt they survived but I know they were still there in the 80's.

 

[Wood Duck]

The trees you remember in the 60s and 70s are probably Chinese Chestnut, which are still common. Chinese Chestnut, and I believe European Chestnuts too, are resistant to the fungus that kills American Chestnut. The fungus comes from Europe or Asia and the American Chestnut didn't have any resistance to it. American Chestnut was a big, tall tree unlike the small Chinese Chestnuts which never get very tall, maybe 40 or 50 feet tall at most. By the way, Chestnut Oak is not related to American Chestnut or to other chestnuts. Chestnut Oak is an oak whose leaves happen to resemble the leaves of chestnut trees.

Emerald Ash Borer is an insect and so it probably has predators, parasites, and diseases that might eventually control it. I am sure there are scientists trying to find suitable predators, parasites, and diseases in Europe (where EAB is native) that could be brought here to help control EAB. Gypsy Moths are somewhat controlled by a combination of predatory wasps and a few diseases. I am not sure if the diseases that attack Gypsy Moths occur naturally here in North America or they were introduced. The danger of introducing a potential EAB predator or disease is that the solution might end up being worse than the original problem, so a lot of care is taken before anything new is released in the wild. EAB will always be around, but maybe in the future the population will be controlled enough that EAB won't kill all Ash trees. Chestnut Blight and Dutch Elm disease are diseases that don't have predators the same way an insect does, so control of those problems is mostly due to resistance in the tree. With diseases there is usually a small portion of the population with some resistance, and after the disease kills some of the trees, the resistant ones can sometimes repopulate the area. Chestnut Blight is unusual in that it kills almost all mature American Chestnut trees. There are still a lot of small American Chestnut trees around (at least here in central PA) but they die when they reach about 6 inches diameter.

Most invasive species follow a similar pattern where at first they occur as a small population, sometimes for decades. At some point something happens and the population explodes, and at that point they are recognized as an invasive species. The population explosion might go on for a long time, but eventually diseases, predators, parasites, environmental conditions, etc. start to affect the invasive species and it becomes more or less part of the ecosystem. The process can take a really long time. Hopefully there will still be Ash trees around after the EAB invasion ebbs. Some goes for the Eastern Hemlock (whooly adelgid), Butternut (canker disease) Elm (Dutch Elm and Elms Yellows diseases), American Beech (Beech Bark Disease), Oaks (oak wilt), Maples (Asian Longhorn Beetle), and whatever tree is attacked by the next invasive insect or new disease. Maybe eventually we will decide to stop introducing new pests to North America. In addition to tree problems we are also always introducing new invasive plants, new mosquitoes, invasive fish, and lots of others.

One invasive species that followed the normal pattern is the Ringnecked Pheasant. At first when they were introduced to North America the population exploded, and I have read that they were so common that kids could collect pheasant eggs after hay was cut because there were so many nests in the fields. After a while, the population subsided for various reasons and now pheasants would probably die out in a lot of areas without constant restocking. (yes, I know there are lots of causes of the decline of pheasants including changes in farming practices, but the population followed the classic invasive species pattern).

 

[lukem]

I'd love to get some seeds of the backcrossed American Chestnuts, but I don't have three hundred dollars to dish out for a TACF membership (which would get you 2, yes only 2 seeds!).

Cough....hack...groan. Cough, cough. I hope this isn't how they plan on building a population...and is more of a charitable donation type thing.