Read on another forum that some guy is using gas without ethanol in it for his chainsaw mix fuel. Posted a thread in that forum to see where he, and possibly anybody else, gets it. It would be a heck of a lot nicer to use gas without ethanol in it for all my small engine stuff. Didn't even know it was possible. So, anybody have any suggestions on where I can get it?
Sources for gas without ethanol in it
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kenskip1
Member
Ken said:
Thanks. There isn't a single place within 90 minutes of me that sells it according to that website. I guess that is what I should expect around the DC area. Utterly incredible. I'll probably be making a run up to Harrisburg, PA sometime soon and it looks like there are a few places along the way. Might have to pick up 10 to 20 gallons on that run. I wish some of the farm equipment places around here would carry it. They probably need 15 different licenses and permits to sell gasoline though.
There is a SUNOCO station near here that has gas without ethenol. They have a big sign outside saying " no ethenol ". Don't know how common Sunoco stations are but that one station is the only one around here. I would look to see if there were any in your area. My saws really run good on their gas. I use the mid grade. David
Bigg_Redd
Minister of Fire
Meh - I wouldn't worry about it too much. Mainly just oil company hype. I put at least E10 in everything I have, E85 in my car. Helps keep the injectors / carbs clean, absorbs any traces of water which might be in the tank. My oldest two stroke engine is 22 years, second oldest is 16 years, Husky saw is about 8. No troubles and all still running strong. Converted my non E85 car to E85 about 4 years ago - It's been fine and saving about $10 on each fill-up. When it comes to buying fuel, I'd rather pay a fellow American as opposed to a foreign government or terrorist.
Some small engine dealerships are selling pre-mixed, no ethanol, stabilized, never goes bad, washes the dishes, ready to go fuel in a can. I'll post more info if I can later.
DanCorcoran
Minister of Fire
cozy heat said:
Interesting. I've always read that absorbing water and putting it through your engine is the big problem with ethanol. I didn't realize that condensation that stays in the gas tank is the problem.
HittinSteel
Minister of Fire
Try as bigg redd said, your local airport. If that's to pricey, try your local boat marina. If you can't find it, then just run 93 octane with good oil with stabilizer or add a stabilizer. If you haven't used the mix in 60 or 90 days, dump it out and remix.
smokinj
Minister of Fire
Sta-bril has a treament. I keep a bottle of that in the truck tool box. With my saws just to much hassle to run to the airport for fuel.
Wow, I didn't realize the there were places in this country that have eliminated gas without ethanol. I have done numerous experiments with 87 octane (non-e) and 89 octane (with e). To my suprise, the 87 would get approx 10% more miles/tank then the 89. Around here ethanol is always 10 cents cheaper, but I just don't see the savings in the long run.
smokinj
Minister of Fire
GordonShumway said:
There is no with or with outs around here....Some pumps don't say ethanol but its in there.
Here in NE, its still required to mark the ethanol. But the Ne leg. is working on changing that.
mellow
Resident Stove Connoisseur
We are fortunate that all the marinas here on the eastern shore have non-ethanol gas, it is a buck higher per gallon than regular gas though. Buy a metal gas container that seals and load up when you find it, it will be good for a long time, especially aviation fuel.
DanCorcoran said:
Condensation in the tank can cause minor problems such as rust, sediment build-up, bacteria, etc. If left alone, it can cause big problems - Straight gas will cause any condensation/water to separate completely, so if any water happens to get in the tank, it just builds up in the bottom. The water will just sit there until it builds up to the fuel pump intake level, then the pump sucks up a slug of water and the engine dies. Now you have a big problem. So you go out and buy a bunch of Heet (alcohol) to make the water soluble and get it through the engine. (or you drain the tank, flush the lines, etc)
With E10 fuel, you basically have 10% Heet built in, so if there is any bit of condensation in the tank, it can be absorbed in the fuel and flushed through the engine harmlessly with each tank of fuel. The ethanol is also great for busting varnish build-up in the fuel system. (Don't try this at home, but spill a few drops of whiskey on the wife's nice wood table and see what happens to the varnish
)Back in the old days, I'd empty the fuel/water separator on my jet skis about 2x per season representing maybe a tablespoon of water per ~50 gallons of gas. (or a few drops from each tank) If I didn't have the separator, or let the water build up, it would get into the carbs and cause problems. Once I started running E10, there was no water accumulating in the separator or tank. The few drops of water in each tank were solubilized and burnt harmlessly in the engine. Those few drops of water from the tank don't even register as far as engine performance - you get much more water in the engine from the humidity in the air.
Ethanol 'absorbing water' (as in sucking it out of the air) bit is mainly a myth. Yes, I suppose if you left a fuel can of ethanol/gas open for months on end, in high humidity and wild temperature swings, it might absorb a bit of water from the air, but a far bigger problem would be most of the volatile components in the gas would escape into the air. Most people are smart enough to keep a cap on the gas can and fuel systems are essentially sealed except for a tiny vent, so absorption from the air really isn't a problem.
GordonShumway said:
I would be surprised too...there is barely 3% difference in btu's between the mix and ethanol can be used more efficiently in the engine (it burns faster which means more time for the piston to extract work from the combustion gasses) The increased efficiency offsets some of the btu penalty. Plus if the low grade 87 octane was limiting the ignition timing in any way, the additional octane of the ethanol blend would help out there, too.
All things combined, the actual mileage loss is generally much less than 3%. So 10 cents savings on even a $4.00 gallon of gas is about break-even for 3% less mileage...except that is 10 cents more being put back into the American economy as opposed to being sent over seas.
cozy heat a lot of people are getting different results than you and I will not use the stuff any more, a friend of mine is getting 4 miles a gallon more with the non-ethanol so I think the 10% is a good figure, just do a google search and pop some popcorn for some real world talk about it, my finding are pretty much in line with the negatives, lower gas milage and cant run it in my old tractor period.
DanCorcoran
Minister of Fire
cozy heat,
I see you are from the midwest. Do you have an other-than-casual interest in ethanol fuel, e.g., corn farmer, investor, etc.? Just curious, because you seem to be a strong proponent of something that many folks dislike, including many environmentalists.
I see you are from the midwest. Do you have an other-than-casual interest in ethanol fuel, e.g., corn farmer, investor, etc.? Just curious, because you seem to be a strong proponent of something that many folks dislike, including many environmentalists.
HittinSteel
Minister of Fire
Interesting thread. Especially how some of the top corn producing states still have ethanol free fuel
smokinj
Minister of Fire
It's kind of like the introduction of unleaded fuel. I wasn't around to see that personally but it too was a case of the Manufacturers having to make the equipment compatible with the new fuel. I have no problems running E10 in semi-modern equipment (and in NY I really don't get a choice) but would like to see an unleaded (not 100LL AVGas) alcohol free fuel available on a limited basis.
BTW; A ton of new equipment (especially handheld) is hitting the market with either miniature 4 strokes or catalytic mufflers equipped. Any fuel containing lead (100LL AvGas is 'Low Lead') is going to leave deposits on those baby valves and poison the new catalytic mufflers.
Using premium or High Octane fuel in an engine that's not tuned for it has zero advantages. The slower burning high octane juice can use more ignition advance to allow for more combustion/expansion time (hence increased power). Trust me, your '88 Chevy pickup doesn't care if you feed it Champagne or boxed wine. One exception, when mixing up 2 cycle fuel, mix 89 (mid-grade) with the oil because the oil itself DOES lower the octane rating of the fuel ever so slightly.
BTW; A ton of new equipment (especially handheld) is hitting the market with either miniature 4 strokes or catalytic mufflers equipped. Any fuel containing lead (100LL AvGas is 'Low Lead') is going to leave deposits on those baby valves and poison the new catalytic mufflers.
Using premium or High Octane fuel in an engine that's not tuned for it has zero advantages. The slower burning high octane juice can use more ignition advance to allow for more combustion/expansion time (hence increased power). Trust me, your '88 Chevy pickup doesn't care if you feed it Champagne or boxed wine. One exception, when mixing up 2 cycle fuel, mix 89 (mid-grade) with the oil because the oil itself DOES lower the octane rating of the fuel ever so slightly.
cozy heat said:
I think the impact varies widely by vehicle. In my 1994 car, I see a 10% hit from 10% ethanol. In my 2008 truck, I see a less than 3% hit as you describe.
Thistle
Minister of Fire
You can buy some 93 and put it in a tall slender container. Then add water to it, about 20% or so. Stir it up and it will phase separate. You will see a line in it pretty clearly. The bottom is alcohol and water. The top is gasoline that's about 3 octane points less than what you bought. Siphon out the top.
Also, try farm implement stores. Some sell ethanol free gas. Marinas.
You can go to a local airport and get 100 low lead. It's ethanol free, but it does have lead in it and that might clog up the ports on a 2 stroke
A drag strip or race track will have ethanol free gasoline.
Also, try farm implement stores. Some sell ethanol free gas. Marinas.
You can go to a local airport and get 100 low lead. It's ethanol free, but it does have lead in it and that might clog up the ports on a 2 stroke
A drag strip or race track will have ethanol free gasoline.
aussiedog3
Feeling the Heat
Saturday just purchased 100-LL aviation fuel at the small local airport for use in my 435 saw that says the use of fuel with ethanol voids the warranty, $5.99/gallon. Also checked the local Torco gas station that sells 110 octane fuel with no ethanol for recreational use only, lotsa guys use it in dune buggies, dirt bikes and race cars around here, $4.19 a gallon. Or give the marina a try, usually a buck more on the water than at the local gas station.
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