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Starting to doubt that an Englander 30 would be improvement

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Nimrod1911, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. Nimrod1911

    Nimrod1911 Member

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    I recently built my hearth and hooked up my old Pre EPA stove (HUGE 36" across on top- heavy guage steel - can fit 30" logs). I have been wanting a new stove and have considered Woodstock PH, but the Englander reviews are great and the price is right. But I need reasonably long burn times. Previously I thought I could only get about 7 hours from my stove. But I am getting 8 1/2 hour night burns and it is in the teens here at night right now. Also, I am probably only filling the box half full.....maybe. I haven't tried stacking splits to the brim as I see you guys doing here. I'm getting 8 1/2 hours burning soft cottonwood no less. The stove is too hot to touch in the morning.
    So here is my issue. I am afraid of buying a smaller stove like the Englander 30 and merely matching my burn times. The Englander would probably burn less wood since it is smaller and efficient but if I can't eek out 10 to 12 hour burns (in 15 degree temps) then why bother? I'm starting to wonder how many hours I could get out of my old beast if I stacked it to the brim, especially if I used a harder wood. (But typically I burn pine) And if I stack to to the brim, I will be burning HUGE amounts of wood. What are you Englander owners getting? I have read 12-14 hours but do you sometimes only get 8 if really cold? Must it be stacked to the brim to get 12 hours and have the planets aligned?
    PS: Heating rambler with 2200 on main floor.....heating half that much in basement where stove is located. (Bsmnt is 2200 as well but I close doors to other half of basement....storage area, excercise room, fruit room, etc) Stove supplements my furnace. House is 6 yrs old, very well insulated, including basement.

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  2. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    Even if your burn times stay the same, you'll use on the order of 1/3 less wood for the same heat with the 30. That would be reason enough for me. It seems like 8 to 12 hours is the commonly reported range for the 30.

    If you want longer burn times with more flexibility in heat output, look at the cat stoves (Blaze King and Woodstock are the most popular here, but there are others). If you are heating 3,300 square-feet though, you will likely be burning whatever stove pretty high most of the time if you're in a cold climate. So, the cat benefits will be less but still there in more mild weather.
  3. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    If you are happy with the stove you have, keep dancing with the one that brung ya.
    Huntindog1, rideau and Scols like this.
  4. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    What stove is this? Can you add your stove make and model to your signature?
  5. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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    If this is that big of a pre-epa stove you are more than likely already using an 8" pipe, go for broke and get the Kuma Sequoia.
    oldspark likes this.
  6. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    I would stick with what you have. There is no replacement for displacement. 3,000+ sq ft of living space would be a challenge for the 30 and you will not be getting the long burn times.

    I don't think you would even get 8 hours of usable heat from the 30 with your setup. I would say 4-5 hours based on your needs.
  7. Nimrod1911

    Nimrod1911 Member

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    I'm not happy with two things: 1) Efficiency - as it eats a lot of wood 2) Burn times - If I don't load it up just before I jump in bed and reload it first thing in the morning then I'm rebuilding the fire. --- It does a good job heating, though it lacks a fan. Not sure of my "useable" heat. Parts of the stove were too hot to touch for longer than a split second this morning but coals were minimal. I don't have a surface thermometer. Stove must weigh well over 500 lbs. It is heavier steel than the newer steel stoves I've looked at (PE, Quadrafire)
  8. blades

    blades Minister of Fire

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    Heart set on new Stove to cut down consumption, not the 30 based on heating arrangement description. I would follow previous post and say BK King or a very similar Cat stove. A step or down section on the flue can resolve that area most of the time.
    I am using Sugar maple a present and get a pretty big coal bed after 7 hours , still the thermometer is in th 200 zone with the blower on full, so likely closer to 300 stove top without the blower on. It does take me a 2-3 hours to get that coal bed reduced for another good fill for the rest of the day. Typically 10 -12 hrs before I return and my 1960 ranch is mostly still in the 65-72 range on a gloomy 20 degree day. Generally leave the dino unit set for 65, as it takes to long to warm up the place below that.
  9. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    At 3,000-4,000 sq ft you will need a very large stove (4+ cu ft fire box) to heat the whole house and get long burn times. Another solution is to burn two stoves so you get even, whole house heating and the burn times you desire.

    But, the 30 is not for you in this example.
    ditchrider likes this.
  10. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    If it were me and there was a safe 8" chimney in there I would be headed to a big Buck stove or a Kuma.
  11. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    Depending on the size of your current stove, I still think a 30 might work OK. I mean, you say you're only loading your stove half way. Are you satisfied with the heat you're getting with your stove half full? Unless your stove is like 8cft, I'd think a full 30 would be at least similiar to a half load in an old smoke dragon. But you're right, burn times are not going to be better.

    That said, I like the Buck and Kuma suggestions. If you've got the flue size, go as big as you can! Regardless, you should see a huge improvement in wood consumption by going to an EPA stove.
  12. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    I can also see an advantage for a large firebox in the amount of ash it can hold.
  13. 31 bertram

    31 bertram New Member

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    I was thinking of a new stove to replace my VC 2550 after playing catchup on years of neglected maintenance. I really liked the Woodstock PH but when I thought about getting this beast out of my house and getting that 700 lb er in. Plus shelling out that big money, I'm thinking I'll hang on to her as long as I can, it's been a good stove and only gripe is the maintenance, but it's pretty well up to snuff now and it does'nt owe nothing so it's money in the bank for me.
  14. blwncrewchief

    blwncrewchief Burning Hunk

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    No, you are not going to get 8 1/2 hours out of a 30 on cottonwood. I love the 30, as well as my stove, and helped a buddy install a 30 this fall. But they ain't getting 8 1/2 hours out of a load of cottonwood, no way no how. I don't think a PH would do it either. Maybe a King would get 8-12 hours at 15* with 2,200 sq. ft. + a basement. My stove is about the same as the 30, and I have cottonwood, and I would say 5-6 hours max on a full load of cottonwood. It will do 12 hours on wood like locust and oak, 8-10 hours on wood like cherry and silver maple. To be honest I have never tried to burn a full load of cottonwood, and I don't think I want to either. My stove if anything seems to be a tad more controllable than a 30 and I think it would probably take off for the moon on a packed load of cottonwood.

    Realistically, if you really need to actually get 8+ hours on cottonwood with that size house and those temps you need to pay heed to the advise above and look for 4+ cubic feet.

    BK King
    Buck 91, 94
    Kuma
    Regency F5100
  15. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    How well you insulated ? Are your windows energy efficient?

    I heat around 2600 foot with a medium sized stove 2.12 cu ft stove in the basement.

    I am well insulated and Energy Efficient windows and my goal in my house is 70 - 71 degrees.

    I posted the other day the bed rooms at the other end of the house are cooler around 2 degrees cooler but I checked it and its actually 3 degrees cooler right now but it got down to 1 degree last night and mid to upper twenties during the day.

    I build the heat up in the house before i go to bed and use my house's thermal mass to store heat. Makes it much easier to heat the house while I sleep that way.

    My 2.12 cu ft stove uses much less wood than a 3.5 big box.

    Cutting 30 inch logs is a b*tch.
  16. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    I'm impressed, thats a good size area to heat with that size stove.
    ditchrider likes this.
  17. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    when it gets in the single digits Its a challenge but is doable, the stove surprises me.

    Quality wood is the secret.
  18. weatherguy

    weatherguy Minister of Fire

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    Isnt there a new beast hybrid on the market, dont remember if its Lopi or Quadafire?? Big box, long burn times, 8 inch flue, I would look at that and the others mentnioned for long burn times and less wood consumption.
  19. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    its the regency 5100 isnt it.
  20. blwncrewchief

    blwncrewchief Burning Hunk

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    I think you are referring to the F5100. 4.42 cu. ft hybrid.

    http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Stoves/F5100.aspx
  21. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Regency.. (5100 IIRC?) (5400?) I am to lazy to look it up :(

    There is one sitting right next to a BKK at one of my local dealers. They swear up and down the Regency is the better stove (cheaper too)!!

    (Edit: Doh.. best me ^^^)
  22. weatherguy

    weatherguy Minister of Fire

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    Yup, you guys are faster than me, I just found it on a search, anyone buy it yet, looks like a heating monster.
  23. Nimrod1911

    Nimrod1911 Member

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    I would describe my insulation as EXCELLENT. I was involved in building it and insisted on very good insulation. I have low E energy efficient windows as well. I'm always impressed how cool my house stays in the summer compared to others in the neighborhood.
  24. ditchrider

    ditchrider Burning Hunk

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    or maybe... the big ROCK (Equinox) existing 8" flue (hmm;hm) , . But you have a great point in your earlier post - 2 stoves, especially if the floorplan would benefit. 3-4k square feet is just an awful lot of area for one stove.
  25. ditchrider

    ditchrider Burning Hunk

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    And another thing... cottonwood isn't. If you are getting a burn time like that my experience will tell you the stove IS doing VERY well. Of course that depends on where you live and what outdoor temps you are competing with.

    My advice... take it and smile. Your scenario isn't so bad. Save your money up and put thought into what you want to do. C/S/S EXTRA wood so you have very good wood for your new stove. Find better wood. ANYTHING is better than cottonwood. Crumpled up newspapers aren't better, but they're as good. And if you really are stuck with cottonwood then always step up to the next bigger firebox size, whatever brand you shop for.

    I think the first good step you made was looking around HEARTH.COM. Lots of good experience and advice here, drunk or sober:rolleyes: . Spend some time here and think things out. Shop your dealers. Customer service is as important as the brand you shop for. You'll be happier with your decision if you take your time.

    Kink regards,
    DR

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