Storage tank charge and recovery loop piping

[huffdawg]

Heres some pics of my progress so far on my storage piping.

 

[huffdawg]

I just filled the supply and return piping to the ball valves on the storage tank I had zero leaks on the anything I soldered but I have leaks on every copper union but one that I installed . do you need to use a four foot snipe on the wrenches or what >:-( .

In the pic to the far right . is a fourway flow direction valve for charging and recovery of storage and buffer tanks.

Huff

 

[woodsmaster]

Did you put drains on the bottom of the tanks ? I didn't on mine, but wished I had when I flushed every thing out.
Are the pipes on the top of the tanks just for filling and letting air out ?

 

[huffdawg]

Did you put drains on the bottom of the tanks ? I didn't on mine, but wished I had when I flushed every thing out.
Are the pipes on the top of the tanks just for filling and letting air out ?

I put 1" drains on the bottoms and 1" vents on the tops . I will install the little 1/8" bell and gosset float type vents on the top of each.

 

[woodsmaster]

I see. Looking very good.

 

[Clarkbug]

Looking good Huff! I wish I had the headroom that you have in your boiler room.

I also installed dip tubes in my tanks to make sure I could use the space at the top and the bottom for storage instead of it just ending up as dead space. Then again, you have more storage than I do, so its probably not an issue.

 

[huffdawg]

Looking good Huff! I wish I had the headroom that you have in your boiler room.

I also installed dip tubes in my tanks to make sure I could use the space at the top and the bottom for storage instead of it just ending up as dead space. Then again, you have more storage than I do, so its probably not an issue.

I will frame around those vents at the top so I will able to use that space for a bit of shelving .

 

[RobC]

Huff you might want to put a simple coin vent on top of tank the float types can leak.

 

[huffdawg]

Huff you might want to put a simple coin vent on top of tank the float types can leak.

I have 6 float type air vents on my system already. oh,oh. But no leaks so far

 

[huffdawg]

Tested storage loop @ 70 psi. water pressure no leaks. Now filling one storage tank. I have one sx 110 amtrol exp. tank , does that seem like enough for roughly 680 gals total water volume

 

[Clarkbug]

Tested storage loop @ 70 psi. water pressure no leaks. Now filling one storage tank. I have one sx 110 amtrol exp. tank , does that seem like enough for roughly 680 gals total water volume

I ended up with 3x-Sv60 tanks. But Im also limited to 24 PSI or so, which is why I have that much expansion room.

 

[jebatty]

Assumed 680 gal system volume, minimum water temp 60F, maximum 200F, minimum pressure 12 psi, maximum pressure 27 psi, I think you need expansion tank at least 66 gal volume, at least 24 gallons acceptance. The following website provided this info, if I didn't make any mistake: Expansion Sizing.

 

[RobC]

Huff you might want to put a simple coin vent on top of tank the float types can leak.

I have 6 float type air vents on my system already. oh,oh. But no leaks so far

My Taco float vents have a removable top so they can be cleaned if they start weeping or whatever.The tops have, on a couple occasions, started to leak themselves. What I attribute this to is the large temp swing our systems can experience. They seem to leak in the summer when we go away and the system cools way down. So, all I was getting at is the KISS idea and you could get away with "simpler" up at the top of the tanks.

Real nice set up regardless.... Rob

 

[pwschiller]

Taco makes a waste connector (Taco #414) for their Hy-Vent float style vents. Here's their description: "The Hy-Vent® Waste Connector screws onto the outlet connection of the Hy-Vents (models 400, 426, 418, 416) to provide a worry-free installation. The 1/4†threads easily connect to a waste line, preventing water damage if the vent ever leaks."

Has anyone used those or made their own to monitor the vents for weeping? I'm thinking about using blown in cellulose to insulate my tanks, but I'm concerned about any leaks that may develop.

 

[huffdawg]

Taco makes a waste connector (Taco #414) for their Hy-Vent float style vents. Here's their description: "The Hy-Vent® Waste Connector screws onto the outlet connection of the Hy-Vents (models 400, 426, 418, 416) to provide a worry-free installation. The 1/4†threads easily connect to a waste line, preventing water damage if the vent ever leaks."

Has anyone used those or made their own to monitor the vents for weeping? I'm thinking about using blown in cellulose to insulate my tanks, but I'm concerned about any leaks that may develop.

I was thinking about using blow in attic insulation . I put my float vents on top of a 12" nipple and ball valve . But I think connecting hose on to the vents would also be a good solution .

 

[goosegunner]

Very nice looking install!

I am wondering if you might get air where your copper connects to the black iron 90 and drops straight down.

I have a similar drop in my lines that connect to my storage. I can sometimes here gurgling there. Mine is piped like the simple pressurized storage sticky. It is more pronounced when the load pump kicks on to send water to the house. I will be adding a vent in the spring.

gg

 

[huffdawg]

Very nice looking install!

I am wondering if you might get air where your copper connects to the black iron 90 and drops straight down.

I have a similar drop in my lines that connect to my storage. I can sometimes here gurgling there. Mine is piped like the simple pressurized storage sticky. It is more pronounced when the load pump kicks on to send water to the house. I will be adding a vent in the spring.

gg

I'm hoping not to get air there . I graded all the pipe with a slight elevation. At the highest point in the copper pipe there is a vent.

Huff

 

[kopeck]

I just filled the supply and return piping to the ball valves on the storage tank I had zero leaks on the anything I soldered but I have leaks on every copper union but one that I installed . do you need to use a four foot snipe on the wrenches or what >:-( .

In the pic to the far right . is a fourway flow direction valve for charging and recovery of storage and buffer tanks.

Huff

Where did you get your unions? I stupidly got mine at the Home Depot and of the six I had to use in my system I've had to return 3 and will be replacing one more. Some were bad out of the bag (bad casting, big hole in the mating surface) one the locking nut was stripped (I almost fell off the ladder when I went to tighten it up, no cheaters either, just started to put some pressure on an pop!) and the other the brass side had a big nick in it. The one I need to replace is just leaking, I'm put about as much pressure on it as I dare. Two others took cheaters on the wrenches to get them to stop leaking, the others I didn't have to do anything special at all, snugged them up and they just worked. Getting them square is really important but when you start with bad fittings not matter how much you try, they will leak.

I had my fair share of problems with HD iron stuff, if I was starting over there would be a lot more copper in my setup and I would have paid an extra few bucks for the better fittings from the local supply store. I was trying to save some money and I think I ended up spending more when it was all said and done.

K

 

[salecker]

Hi Huff
Looking good
I have just one observation.
When i was told about plumbing my tanks,i was told to do a reverse return series??Not sure if that is the right term.Anyhow on yours the supply and return are the same teed into about the middle of the tanks.I I was told to go in the top into tank 1 then tank 2 then come out of the bottom return from tank2 then pickup tank 1.I was told that water was lazy and will take the easyest path.By doing a reverse series you force the tanks to charge evenly.Seems to work i can't measure any differace betwwen the tanks.
Just my .02 hopefully befor you can't change anything
Thomas

 

[RobC]

Between top and bottom is where I have had leaks not out the vent it self. Even when they have been tightened up they still work loose over time with the expansion and contraction. If this happens it makes a lot more mess than just a weeping vent.
Mine are located where you can't really get at them and they're there just to purge from high spot in system. For me coin vents works just as well.

 

[huffdawg]

I just filled the supply and return piping to the ball valves on the storage tank I had zero leaks on the anything I soldered but I have leaks on every copper union but one that I installed . do you need to use a four foot snipe on the wrenches or what >:-( .

In the pic to the far right . is a fourway flow direction valve for charging and recovery of storage and buffer tanks.

Huff

Where did you get your unions? K

I got them from the wholesale plumbing supply here . I took them apart yesterday and applied thread sealer to the seats. all water tight now

 

[huffdawg]

Hi Huff
Looking good
I have just one observation.
When i was told about plumbing my tanks,i was told to do a reverse return series??Not sure if that is the right term.Anyhow on yours the supply and return are the same teed into about the middle of the tanks.I I was told to go in the top into tank 1 then tank 2 then come out of the bottom return from tank2 then pickup tank 1.I was told that water was lazy and will take the easyest path.By doing a reverse series you force the tanks to charge evenly.Seems to work i can't measure any differace betwwen the tanks.
Just my .02 hopefully befor you can't change anything
Thomas

Mine are paralleled, I tink lots of members have done it this way . If I have problems with them heating unevenly I could always throttle a ball valve a bit.

Huff

 

[Clarkbug]

Hi Huff
Looking good
I have just one observation.
When i was told about plumbing my tanks,i was told to do a reverse return series??Not sure if that is the right term.Anyhow on yours the supply and return are the same teed into about the middle of the tanks.I I was told to go in the top into tank 1 then tank 2 then come out of the bottom return from tank2 then pickup tank 1.I was told that water was lazy and will take the easyest path.By doing a reverse series you force the tanks to charge evenly.Seems to work i can't measure any differace betwwen the tanks.
Just my .02 hopefully befor you can't change anything
Thomas

I was under the impression that reverse return and series are not exactly the same thing....

Series plumbing sounds like what you have. Reverse return is when you pipe more than two tanks up so that water will have to flow through an equal length of piping no matter what way it goes. I have 3 storage tanks, and they are piped reverse return.

The only potential issue with series piping is that if they stratify, you then put hot water from one tank into the cold water at the bottom of another tank. May not be an issue depending on how things are piped, tapped, etc.

 

[Clarkbug]

Between top and bottom is where I have had leaks not out the vent it self. Even when they have been tightened up they still work loose over time with the expansion and contraction. If this happens it makes a lot more mess than just a weeping vent.
Mine are located where you can't really get at them and they're there just to purge from high spot in system. For me coin vents works just as well.

This is an excellent point, and one my installer had mentioned too. He was more concerned about air infiltration into the system if the pressure fill stuck closed and there was a need to add volume to the system.

I have an auto vent on the top of all of my tanks. Perhaps Ill consider replacing with a coin vent or extending them out to where they will be exposed.

 

[kopeck]

I got them from the wholesale plumbing supply here . I took them apart yesterday and applied thread sealer to the seats. all water tight now

Good to hear. Nice work BTW, forgot to say that when I got into the HD rant. Kind of a sore spot.

K