Suggestions for insert in large room

[Newt243]

Hey all, I have been lurking on this site for awhile and am about ready to take the plunge and replace my fireplace with a wood burning insert. We have a very open floor plan with 23' ceilings and the downstairs is around 2,800 sq ft. The upstairs is open as you can see in the pic but we keep all the bedroom doors closed as no one sleeps up there. We do have a 60" ceiling fan that definitely helps out with air movement.

The current insert is 46" wide, 39 1/2" tall, and the rock opening is 29 1'2" deep. Also, the hearth extends out 18". I believe there is currently a triple wall pipe but am not sure of the diameter. I can find that info out from the dealer who installed everything when we built the house. We live out in the country so firewood is not an issue. I would appreciate any input as to which inserts would be best suited to help heat my house and look forward to future discussions!

 

[bcrtops]

That sounds like a ZC type fireplace, not a full masonry unit. If so, will most assuredly require a complete rework to accommodate anything better. Some of the current installers &/or sweeps will be able to give you more detail, as to any possible upgrade.

My opinion of triple-wall chimney is that it should never have been allowed in the 1st place. It runs too cold & is a creosote creator & quite dangerous (just my opinion).

 

[BenTN]

Agree, I think your looking for a zero clearance fireplace. with those dimensions the should be plenty of options, although not sure any of them will heat your home as a primary source. we just installed the osburn stratford and are happy so far burning last few weeks. pacific energy and kozy heat are some other brands to look into. good luck with your search. beautiful room by the way.

 

[Newt243]

Unfortunately it is not a full masonry fireplace. I let me builder talk me into what we have even though my instincts told me not to agree with him. I really wanted a large stove sitting on a hearth but the wife said that was a no go. So now I am stuck with non efficient fireplace and am trying to figure out the best solution without breaking the bank. We run propane furnaces and would like to supplement with a stove insert if possible as our propane bill last winter was rather high!

 

[Newt243]

Also, I did speak with the dealer over the phone that installed our fireplace. He said they deal with quadrafire and buck and said they would have to run a 5" insulated pipe to accommodate an insert. My main concern is getting real world advice and not a salesman trying to get me to install an insert I won't be happy with. I appreciate the input!

 

[begreen]

What's the make and model of the zc fireplace? The manual will say whether an insert is approved or not.

If not, you may have the option of putting a good looking rear-vent, freestanding stove in front and running a liner up the chimney pipe. What is the height of the opening to the fireplace?

 

[Newt243]

What's the make and model of the zc fireplace? The manual will say whether an insert is approved or not.

If not, you may have the option of putting a good looking rear-vent, freestanding stove in front and running a liner up the chimney pipe. What is the height of the opening to the fireplace?

It is a Vermont castings model SC42a. The opening is 39 1/2" tall. I wouldn't be opposed to a freestanding stove at all if that could possibly work!

 

[begreen]

The manual warning is pretty explicit -
Do not install a solid fuel burning insert or other products not specified for use with this fireplace.
If there is sufficient height at the door opening to clear than a rear-vent stove could be an option.

 

[Newt243]

The manual warning is pretty explicit -
Do not install a solid fuel burning insert or other products not specified for use with this fireplace.
If there is sufficient height at the door opening to clear than a rear-vent stove could be an option.

Would I not be able to completely remove the current fireplace and install an insert with the proper flue? When I contacted the store that installed it they suggested we could install a buck or quadrafire insert and that we would have to run a 5" insulated pipe. I just want to make sure we go with the proper and most efficient set up for our needs and not have to redo it down the road. Thanks for the input!

 

[BenTN]

there may be some confusion here between an insert and a zero clearance fireplace. an insert would require an existing masonry or approved firebox to accept it. a zero clearance fireplace seems like what you would need after removing your current fireplace.

 

[mellow]

How big is the hearth? You might be able to fit a side loading rear vent freestanding woodstove in front of the fireplace. But that is also going to depend on how sturdy they made that hearth, that would be quite a bit of weight on it.

If I am reading the specs correctly that should have an 8" flue in it, not sure why they are saying 5" insulated, 5.5" insulated should be able to fit no problem.

 

[Newt243]

How big is the hearth? You might be able to fit a side loading rear vent freestanding woodstove in front of the fireplace. But that is also going to depend on how sturdy they made that hearth, that would be quite a bit of weight on it.

If I am reading the specs correctly that should have an 8" flue in it, not sure why they are saying 5" insulated, 5.5" insulated should be able to fit no problem.

The hearth is 23" from the louvre to the edge. It currently has an 8" flue but I think they where saying they would have to run a 5.5" liner maybe due to the current flue not capable of handling the heat?? The hearth was built pretty stout to handle the weight of the rocks. I will dig around and see if I can find any pics of the frame for the hearth. I am pretty sure they filled in the hearth frame with rock before they capped it. Would I just set a freestanding stove on the hearth and leave the fireplace as is? If so, any suggestions on which stoves I should look at? Obviously I am a wood stove novice and appreciate all the help!!

 

[begreen]

Would I not be able to completely remove the current fireplace and install an insert with the proper flue? When I contacted the store that installed it they suggested we could install a buck or quadrafire insert and that we would have to run a 5" insulated pipe. I just want to make sure we go with the proper and most efficient set up for our needs and not have to redo it down the road. Thanks for the input!

BenTN nailed it. An insert goes into an existing masonry fireplace. This is ZC fireplace. The options are:

1) replace it with a modern efficient ZC fireplace
2) put a freestanding, rear-vent wood stove on the hearth that is connected to a liner up the current ZC chimney
3) remove the current ZC fireplace completely and turn the space into an alcove for a freestanding stove
4) keep the existing ZC and be happy​

 

[mellow]

You will need to measure the height of your firebox to see if a rear vent will be able to pipe into it, but the idea is to run new liner inside your existing 8" chimney.

Woodstock makes some nice rear vent fireplaces that would match your rock: http://www.woodstove.com/

You will just need to figure out if it will fit and be able to get a 5.5" liner and tee into your fireplace and up your chimney.

 

[Newt243]

Thanks for all the input! I am leaning towards a freestanding stove on the hearth if I can find one that will fit and put off enough heat to make it worthwhile. If anyone has done a setup like that I would love to see pictures. I will also have a professional install it due to the height of the chimney and steep pitch of the roof.

 

[begreen]

What is the height from the hearth to the top of the fireplace door opening? That's what the rear-vent flue pipe needs to clear.

 

[Newt243]

What is the height from the hearth to the top of the fireplace door opening? That's what the rear-vent flue pipe needs to clear.

There is a heat shield hanging down and that height from the hearth is 27 1/2". If that could be removed then the opening would be 30". If I go with a freestanding stove would the liner have to run the full length of the chimney or just part way up? The reason I am asking is I would need at least 40' of liner.

 

[begreen]

30" would increase options over just 27". 40ft of liner is going to suck like a Hoover on steroids. I would plan on a draft damper too.

 

[Newt243]

The manual warning is pretty explicit -
Do not install a solid fuel burning insert or other products not specified for use with this fireplace.
If there is sufficient height at the door opening to clear than a rear-vent stove could be an option.

How can I find out if an insert is specified to be ok to install with this fireplace? Should I trust the company that installed the current sorry set up and what they recommend? I have done quite a bit of checking on the internet but to no avail. I mentioned to the wife about putting a freestanding stove on the hearth and venting it through the existing fireplace and she didn't like that idea at all.

 

[begreen]

It's a long standing discussion here that basically comes down to liability. There are several mfgs. that approve their inserts for installation in ZC fireplaces, but most likely that will invalidate the UL testing for the fireplace unless the specific insert has been tested for that fireplace. This usually only happens when the insert maker is the same as the fireplace maker.

Ultimately this is an insurance issue. If there is a fire related to the installation, will it be covered? Contact them for guidance and let them know what you want to do. Some will say no problem as long as it's done by the dealer or professional installer, some will say no way, others may want it inspected first.

 

[Komatsu350]

Buck sells a model 74zc. I have a regular model 74 and it puts off great heat, heats 2200sqft right thru winter

 

[Newt243]

I am going to the dealer tomorrow and will look at the buck inserts and quadrafire inserts to compare as that is what they told me over the phone to look at. If anyone has suggestions on another brand to look at that could be more efficient please let me know.

 

[BenTN]

many good efficient brands out there, just depends on what your dealer carries and your budget. i would suggest you take pictures and info of your current setup to the dealer. they should be able to tell what will or wont work if they will be the ones installing.

 

[Newt243]

Well I went by the dealer and unfortunately he told me the only insert that will work is the Buck model 18. To install it and run the proper pipe up my chimney would end up being over 3k so that is a no go as that stove doesn't look like it would remotely fulfill our heating needs. The wife doesn't was a standalone stove sitting on the hearth and vented through the current fireplace due to that looking "ghetto". I wouldn't care what it looked like as long as it was efficient but that is one of the many differences between a man and woman! So at this point I am frustrated and not sure what to do because I don't have the money for a complete remodel.

 

[begreen]

Pish posh. Maybe she just needs some visual aids.