I hear ya but it does not change the fact that I can have a raging fire and the stove top only get to 550 to 600 so explain the reason for that because I dont understand that aspect of it. A raging fire is a raging fire with secondaries blazing correct or an I missing something here, hard to tell if my secondaries are as good as the videos posted on the net. One thing I noticed is how small the slit is in the secondary air inlet, I thought the hole was bigger until I put my hand in there.pen said:oldspark said:
Me too!! But I'll bet a case of beer that I know the reason
pen
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Yes and I was trying to start a fire a year ago with it in there (before I knew you could cheat with the door open) and after taking it out I noticed very little difference. I know you guys are sick of me but I dont understand why with a very nice fire it only gets to 550 or so, I have read posts from people who have crappy draft and I think they could still get good temps out of the stove. I have to get that cheap pipe to try before it gets any warmer maybe that will tell me something.SKIN052 said:
Only other consideration, which I believe in the past you have vehemently rejected , which may reduce heat output from a load of wood... there is heat loss due to burning off residual moisture in the wood.
And I can personally attest first hand experience, that wood that -- looks like, acts like, burns like it is dry -- but is not "primo" dry - will reduce peak temps... And not smoke up the glass, wheeze or weep moisture and still produce secondaries etc etc etc.
And I can personally attest first hand experience, that wood that -- looks like, acts like, burns like it is dry -- but is not "primo" dry - will reduce peak temps... And not smoke up the glass, wheeze or weep moisture and still produce secondaries etc etc etc.
[quote author="madison" date="1302641697"]Only other consideration, which I believe in the past you have vehemently rejected , which may reduce heat output from a load of wood... there is heat loss due to burning off residual moisture in the wood.
And I can personally attest first hand experience, that wood that -- looks like, acts like, burns like it is dry -- but is not "primo" dry - will reduce peak temps... And not smoke up the glass, wheeze or weep moisture and still produce secondaries etc etc etc.[/quote Its all below 20% and some at 13%, and some was 2x6's lumber so I know the wood is dry as can be. I do not have any that is 7 years old like Backwoods but some is 3 years old. :coolgrin:
And I can personally attest first hand experience, that wood that -- looks like, acts like, burns like it is dry -- but is not "primo" dry - will reduce peak temps... And not smoke up the glass, wheeze or weep moisture and still produce secondaries etc etc etc.[/quote Its all below 20% and some at 13%, and some was 2x6's lumber so I know the wood is dry as can be. I do not have any that is 7 years old like Backwoods but some is 3 years old. :coolgrin:
Stored appropriately? in sun wind etc and not buried in snowdrifts etc ? The reason I ask, I had previously used bricks/cinder blocks and 4x4's and noticed that the bottom layers closer to the ground did not season like the top layers. I am in process of converting to 6" of gravel with pallets on top of the gravel. In hopes of minimizing the moisture in the bottom layers of the stacks. I also noticed a difference in the full sun stacks vs the same aged stack that were part shaded.
Regarding moisture meters, accuracy is spotty and technique dependent.
http://www.vtt.fi/inf/pdf/publications/2000/P420.pdf
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Electric_Moisture_Meters.html
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/nreos/wood/wpn/methods_moisture.htm
Regarding moisture meters, accuracy is spotty and technique dependent.
http://www.vtt.fi/inf/pdf/publications/2000/P420.pdf
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Electric_Moisture_Meters.html
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/nreos/wood/wpn/methods_moisture.htm
I am a strong advocate of single rows in the sun and wind, some gets partial shade but plenty is in full sun stacked off the ground, I am happy with the readings off my MM, they all make sense with what I am cutting, dead or live and the type of wood it is, after 30 years of woodburning you get a feel for it and the MM has confirmed my findings. Plus I did a test with 2x6's and the result was the same more or less. If I have a bed of coals the wood burst into flames right away and I can get temps up quickly, most of my times and temps match up with what I have read on here except for the top end. It took some reading before I realized there was a problem, all else is fine.
I forgot to add I put wood inside in the fall and cover the rest out side but a fair share is all inside. Believe me its dry.
Hope to get the cheap pipe tonight and will post how that goes, we have some cool weather moving in for a few days.
HOLY SMOKE Sparky, I can see why you're getting tired!!
My thoughts? (like you need more):
The stovepipe damper is counterproductive to improving draft. Either I missed the original post or something but I haven't seen why you added a damper. The airtight stoves are designed to run efficiently without the use of a damper so you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot IF improved draft is your end goal. Sounds like a hotter stove is your end goal though.
1. Chimney height in relation to structure?
2. How full are you filling the firebox?
3. Stove pipe temps as measured at elbow going back to chimney?
4. Do you have a heat exchanger in the stovepipe?
And finally.....Have you considered that the damnedable thermostat you are using on the stove surface is shot?! It is quite possible that it overheated and/or is sprung and no longer registers the correct temperature. Try using a laser thermometer and reading the surface temp with that.
Good luck. Spring will be here soon!
My thoughts? (like you need more):
The stovepipe damper is counterproductive to improving draft. Either I missed the original post or something but I haven't seen why you added a damper. The airtight stoves are designed to run efficiently without the use of a damper so you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot IF improved draft is your end goal. Sounds like a hotter stove is your end goal though.
1. Chimney height in relation to structure?
2. How full are you filling the firebox?
3. Stove pipe temps as measured at elbow going back to chimney?
4. Do you have a heat exchanger in the stovepipe?
And finally.....Have you considered that the damnedable thermostat you are using on the stove surface is shot?! It is quite possible that it overheated and/or is sprung and no longer registers the correct temperature. Try using a laser thermometer and reading the surface temp with that.
Good luck. Spring will be here soon!
First of all this chimney has worked flawless for 30 years with the old Nashua.flueguyPA said:
1. Chimney is 2 to 3 ft above peak and never a problem in any kind of wind or temp.
2. You name it, small fires big fires, oak, ash, elm, mulberry, black locust, silver maple all below 20% with some at 13%.
3. stovepipe temps are mesured 18 inches above stove but I have a IR testor and can check it any where, used to think they were very high but magnetic sensor is off.
4. NO
Stove has never been over fired as I have a IR testor
THE DAMPER ACTUALLY HELPED but not enough to make a big difference.
I can have a raging fire in my stove if I leave the primary air open but the stove won't go over ~550-650 unless I close the air down. Reason it will shoot up to 900 when I do that is because I have a strong enough draft that the fire can slow down in the stove (flames get lazy), it has time for the heat to "soak" into the stove by being slowed down yet its draft is still pulling hard enough (not fast enough) that the air can come through the secondary air systems rather than the primary which makes for a more effecient burn.
I've had my stove up over 850 a few times this winter by accident because of my new 6 in liner. Before, my stove vented into a 7 1/4 by 7 1/4 block chimney. It worked fine but never had the draft to pull the stove up over about 750 degrees.
pen
I've had my stove up over 850 a few times this winter by accident because of my new 6 in liner. Before, my stove vented into a 7 1/4 by 7 1/4 block chimney. It worked fine but never had the draft to pull the stove up over about 750 degrees.
pen
My stove top has never went up all that much when I turn the air down and the secondaries kick in so yes this has to be it (god I hope so) and you answered a question I had about how hot the stove would get with the primary open. Like many of you have said the draft is not strong enough to get a good secondary burn even though it looks good to me. There was another guy on here that had the same problem as I but have not heard from him in a while. Pen I would settle for a 750 stove top.
The crazy thing is I can actually go longer between reloads w/ the proper draft as well. Before, I'd have to re-load the stove every 10-12 hours. Now I can easily go 12-14 even while it's getting hotter. I think this is because I can turn the stove down a bit more than before and still maintian the clean burn. It seems counterintuitive that a hotter stove actually gives me longer times between reloads but that's just the way it works.
pen
pen
It seems as if we are just beating a dead horse, running around in circles, etc......The only way that this going to get resolved is by a process of elimination so change a few of the variables and see what happens. Personally if I payed the kind of money we are talking about for a PE stove I would want the performance I was paying for and would be taking the necessary step to get it.
With all that being said, I did have one other thought, has anyone called PE to find out what the draft should be in inches of water column. If you could get this information you could call your local HVAC company and schedule a time that they could stop by and measure the draft on a full burning load of wood. This would very quickly tell you if you draft was marginal. I have the means of measuring my draft and I could get you these results to compare against. It may be cheaper to just purchase you own manometer than to pay an HVAC company to measure it for you. Here is an example of a fairly inexpensive yet sensitive manometer.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DWYER-INSTRUMENTS-Molded-Plastic-U-Inclined-2T650?Pid=search
With all that being said, I did have one other thought, has anyone called PE to find out what the draft should be in inches of water column. If you could get this information you could call your local HVAC company and schedule a time that they could stop by and measure the draft on a full burning load of wood. This would very quickly tell you if you draft was marginal. I have the means of measuring my draft and I could get you these results to compare against. It may be cheaper to just purchase you own manometer than to pay an HVAC company to measure it for you. Here is an example of a fairly inexpensive yet sensitive manometer.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DWYER-INSTRUMENTS-Molded-Plastic-U-Inclined-2T650?Pid=search
I have been done, there was some new questions from members that had not read my posts and was just answering their questions, moderator can close this post at any time. I know what I am going to do.
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