Summit Observations from my stove and set up.

[oldspark]

First of all I am not asking for help as we know where that gets us, riding a dead horse.
My Summit does not work the same as many report here, no danger of overfireing ever and I can idle the fire down in a hurry with the damper and primary air.
Flue temps seem to run higher than most but less than the old chimney.
Lincoln log style fires work best for quick heat.
When I get the stove top to 700 or beyond I have to let it go longer that I normally do, it never gets there if I run the stove as usual, the stove top temp doens't take off with the secondaries firing, just a slow upword trend.
The damper IMHO has helped a lot with higher stove top temps and longer burns.
The new thing is the stove has had some of the best burns on large splits of Green Ash, as most of us know Green Ash is a MOR wood so I dont get it, had about a 9.5 hour burn the other night and stove top was 400 in the morning. If fact it seems to like Green Ash for everthing, maybe there is a clue there and I need more chimney but at 21 feet total straight up I dont think so.
All my wood is below 20 % and starts good burns well but the stove likes less dense wood.
It is what it is and I will continue to tighten up the house and still thinking about the extra pipe, maybe I just need to rule that out.
It is heating the house but after reading this forum I think it is not up to par with many of you PE owners.

 

[theonlyzarathu]

What is the diameter of the wood that you are putting in the stove to burn? My Summitt seems to work like yours does. I'm happy with it. My last stove would over fire at the drop of a hat, and I was always worried about leaving the house with it on.

In order to stimulate air flow, I put a large log against the back wall of the firebrick and then I set other logs and smaller pieces forward to back with the back on top of the log in the back. This allows the air flow to go directly in under the fire and then up and up the back. It seems to encourage burning following the natural flow of the air. I put cross pieces on top of the front back pieces but I always leave space for air to more from the ceramic back under the fire and then up and ap the back.

I moved the spring temp gauge to the pipe rather than the top of the stove. I'm really more interested in knowing that I have enough heat to get the gases up the chimney without condensing on the interior walls of the pipe, and less concern about the stove top. I don't start the fan until the gauge measures 450F or about the temp of burning paper, this guarntees that the stove is hot enough overall not to have the fan sucking heat away that it needs to stay hot.

 

[oldspark]

Pie shaped 7x7 or so 8 to 10 lbs, for me and this stove that is big but maybe not to some. The stove is predictable and really good long burns with this wood.
I too like the fact it wont over fire easily just wish I could get it to 650 or 700 a little quicker befor I turn on the fan, maybe I am putting too much into what some people post on here.

 

[raybonz]

Pie shaped 7x7 or so 8 to 10 lbs, for me and this stove that is big but maybe not to some. The stove is predictable and really good long burns with this wood.
I too like the fact it wont over fire easily just wish I could get it to 650 or 700 a little quicker befor I turn on the fan, maybe I am putting too much into what some people post on here.

Smaller splits will create a much more involved fire with higher temps particularly if you cross stack each layer.. Add 2 Ecologs on top and you're off to the races however this drives my flue temp to 600 degrees surface temp or higher pretty quick.. The downside is you'll burn more wood but you will gain fast heat.. I leave my blower on low auto to get the heat out of the stove and this works well for me..

Ray

 

[oldspark]

Ray I think you missed my point, those splits in Green Ash are active as all get out and with a good but small bed of coals they take off like paper and I can turn the stove all the way down on overnight burns, bigger split less dense wood is the key. All my White Ash and Oak splits are smaller but just cant seem to hit the sweet spot with those woods yet.

 

[theonlyzarathu]

What is the "sweet spot" that you are trying to reach?

 

[oldspark]

What is the "sweet spot" that you are trying to reach?

A predictable long burn, one that I dont have to fiddle with, I can set it and forget it with the Green Ash, some of the other woods I burn I have to keep a closer eye on the fire and adjust it more. Also ai might have to be more precise on how I pack the stove, the Green Ash just goes in the door N/S and it takes care of itself.

 

[iceman]

I find if I turn mine down all the way it will leave way to many coals... I will do it if I am gone for 12+ hrs ..
I split smaller so my oak would dry faster ... I can pack it in tight and get a hot burn.. what I also found was reloading at 400 is great .. I can pack it in and pretty much close it all they and the stove will take care of itself... At lower temp reloads my stove will slowly climb over an hr or so or more.. the stove needs airspace when its packed tight secondaries will kick but the temp will slowly rise, as the temp rises wood burns creating more airspace my stove will start climbing a lot faster and the light show is amazing..
However, before I used to think my stove was overfiring because it was reading.. 750-850
But later found out those stove top thermometers are garbage .. since using an IR the front of my insert has never gone over 640
usually high 5s... When the fan is off the top has never gone over 700
So honestly spark the numbers you "hear" might not all be true.. unless an IR gun is being used...

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

Unfortunately, EPA Non-CAT stoves are too dynamic and thus subjective.
They are more creatures of "mood". I know I would like to find the "magic"
wood fuel, along with the "magic" wood placement to get a maximum burn and
optimum burn every time. But weather is never the same, and my fuel can vary
in burn characteristics, even though it is well seasoned.

Still, it is OK to try new things & dream, but don't be too hard on yourself, or your stove.

My 2 cents worth......

 

[oldspark]

iceman-that is true but I believe there have been a number of post whre they had a IR testor, my stove top thermometer is low up to about 500 or so and after that it reads high. I hope by now most people on this forum know they can not be trusted.

 

[oldspark]

Unfortunately, EPA Non-CAT stoves are too dynamic and thus subjective.
They are more creatures of "mood". I know I would like to find the "magic"
wood fuel, along with the "magic" wood placement to get a maximum burn and
optimum burn every time. But weather is never the same, and my fuel can vary
in burn characteristics, even though it is well seasoned.

Still, it is OK to try new things & dream, but don't be too hard on yourself, or your stove.

My 2 cents worth......

Good post! Need a big thumbs up smileys thing here.

 

[theonlyzarathu]

What is the "sweet spot" that you are trying to reach?

A predictable long burn, one that I dont have to fiddle with, I can set it and forget it with the Green Ash, some of the other woods I burn I have to keep a closer eye on the fire and adjust it more. Also ai might have to be more precise on how I pack the stove, the Green Ash just goes in the door N/S and it takes care of itself.

OK so... your problem is not about getting a stove top up to some mythological 600 degrees F? Its about not having a long burn? I GENERALLY GET about 8 hours with enough coals to get it started again with only a couple of pices of fatwood and some really dry kindling. 12 hours might happen but I don't really need that.


I just need to be able to go to bed, sleep for 7-8 and be able to tstart the stove and not have the temps in the house drop below 63, unless the outside temps are below -10 and there is a stiff wind. The reality is that the warmth at the end depends on the amount of insulation in your house, and whether you are drawing outside air directly into the stove, rather than sucking thorugh holes in your house.

 

[oldspark]

I can not get a really hot stove (700 or so stove top) when I need it so I have to wait for the heat, I have always got long burn times for the most part, the lincoln log fires have helped out with the quick heat though. They told me it would take a while to learn how to run these stove correctly and I now believe them.

 

[iceman]

Your stove might be running fine .. that "heat" you are looking for you will prolly need to leave it at L or slightly in front (going towards the F) .. my stove doesn't "cook" me out the house like the old Franklin, I believe its due to the blower and just the air movement around the house and stove.. with the Franklin that thing got so hot it was unbearable- but used much more wood

With an IR my stove has been anywhere from 275 to 385 12-14 hrs later... I believe my hot temps are prolly coming when I am not watching the stove or it finds its sweet spot by itself ..
If your stack is ok and gaskets, and all that stuff .. it may still be the learning curve this is year number 4 and right when I thought I had it ... I learned more about her this year and its by far the most I have gotten out of my stove
I am on my 3rd door gasket ... For some reason it makes a difference.. after this year I will replace again .. every 2 now if I can make it LOL

 

[madison]

In order to stimulate air flow, I put a large log against the back wall of the firebrick and then I set other logs and smaller pieces forward to back with the back on top of the log in the back. This allows the air flow to go directly in under the fire and then up and up the back. It seems to encourage burning following the natural flow of the air. I put cross pieces on top of the front back pieces but I always leave space for air to more from the ceramic back under the fire and then up and ap the back.

I messed around with the loading the first couple yrs when I had inferior wood, and also tried for a while the log across the back - it did help promote burning in the rear corners and max temp. Instead i clean out the ashes more frequently now and just load N/S and get the same affect as above. Probably cleaning out every 4 days with 24/7 burning dirty but more seasoned hardwood than previous yrs.

 

[SKIN052]

+1 on changing the door gasket and the baffle gasket. Give it a shot just to rule that out of the equation. Both jobs could be done in 30 minutes if you prep well. Just did my door gasket, sort of, updated my post with pics.

 

[oldspark]

+1 on changing the door gasket and the baffle gasket. Give it a shot just to rule that out of the equation. Both jobs could be done in 30 minutes if you prep well. Just did my door gasket, sort of, updated my post with pics.

Too cold to do that for now, the stove has worked the same for the most part since new so the door gasket would have been flakey from the get go. I have done a smoke test and can not any smoke being pulled in any where. As soon as I get a chance I am going to put in a gasket from the material I got from you.

 

[SKIN052]

I am thinking the door gasket was failing well before I noticed it. I cant seem to get neat the stove right now, tons of heat.

 

[oldspark]

I am thinking the door gasket was failing well before I noticed it. I cant seem to get neat the stove right now, tons of heat.

How's is that compared to new?

 

[SKIN052]

Good question, either I am getting more comfortable with the stove, or the gaskets have done a great job. I am getting more heat this year than I was before. Same fuel, same chimney.

 

[iceman]

The door gaskets are worthless, I too went to a bigger size and makes a big difference..
How is the temp in your house compared to the other stove?
As I mentioned before mine doesn't blast me out unless I leave air more open but that at a shorter burn time ... But when its hot and running right my room is 80 and the upstairs is 75 that's how I measure my stove.. if I leave it in front of the L I can't go near it and everything inside us about to glow
I sure hope u figure this thing out

 

[oldspark]

Iceman-The Summit struggles when its really cold and a wind out of the south, spent all day once just getting the house up to 70 but I can live with that I guess, the old stove could put out more heat. Did you guys ever do a smoke test on your door, I have checked it several times and no sign of any leaks and the glass is clean all the time. To tell yu the truth I think it is working well for the most part but not as good as others when you compare temps, I will change the door gasket first chance I get, maybe not till this summer.

 

[oldspark]

With a bad door gasket dont you have trouble controlling the fire and high stove top temps and high fuel comsumption, I can control my fire well, much better than some report.

 

[lillyrat]

My stove runs exactly like Oldspark's. This year has been better for me as far as getting heat from the stove. Last yeart I would not let the stack temp (single wall, magnetic thermo) get over 550. This year I have been running it up to 600 and my temps usually go to about 620 stovetop for an average. I purchase an IR thermometer last year and have started reading flue temps with it also. What I have found is that when the thermo reads about 600 on the stack, the IR reads about 530-550 which is right at the top of the safe zone. I think last year I never let the stove get really cooking before I would start shutting it down. If I have some really dense wood in there, the stack will climb slowly and I will wait till it gets to 500 stack before I start shutting it down. If the stack temp is rising quickly, I will start backing it down sooner in small steps but still let it climb up to 530-550 with the IR gun before I close it down and let it settle in.
I don't think I am a big fan of the EBT though. One night I had the stove 3/4 full and it had settled in for the overnight burn, I woke up about 3 hours into the burn and took a look at the stove and it had the most intense secondary burn I had ever seen with flames shooting straight down out of the baffle. Stack temp was about 400 but everything else looked fine, stovetop was 525 but it made me a little nervous the way those secondaries were firing. I am contributing this to the EBT I suppose because the fire was alot calmer earlier and then this happend. Stove seems very responsive to the lever settings though.

 

[oldspark]

Lillyrat-there seems to be a few more people who's PE stove runs like our but not very many, I gave up on the flue temp thing other wise I would not get any heat out of it, with a really good fire I see 600 flue temps (checked with IR) and one morning I had 726, after the stove settles they can be high (400) but not too bad. Not to sure about the EBT either, I have had it taped off part of the time. It is amazing how well the big splits of Green Ash are working, the stove temperture and length of burns are as good as a well packed stove of Oak and White Ash. Not sure how another length of chimney will effect the stove.