The Economics of Burning Wood

[Enzo's Dad]

It’s been almost 7 years since I bought my wood insert and I am finding that this year with Oil jumping to nearly $5 a gallon everyone is interested in burning wood. The problem is the costs have skyrocketed. I was able to find a floor model Hampton Hi300 for $1800 dollars in the fall of 2015 . I think I bought the smooth 5.5” liner for 750, and the block off plate and Roxul insulation was about 150. So all in it was about 3k. I think that stove this year is $3800.
Will burning wood save you money.? Probably not.. this is a lifestyle and everything changes. You will definitely be warmer my entire first floor is in the mid 70s all winter. But honestly my wife now says that 73 is cold. When we used just oil the house was 65 to 66. To keep it warm takes a lot of time and Effort. It have not paid for wood ever it’s everywhere near me. I did buy a Kawasaki mule ,built woodsheds,bought chainsaws etc.. so it’s far from free. I also feel that there is price gouging going on in the wood stove business, but it is supply and demand
I am reading all the posts here and I blown away by the costs. I also noticed the advice here is sound and honest. Installing a block off plate on an insert makes all the difference, seasoned wood is a must( you think you know what seasoned wood is but you have no idea until you burn for several seasons. If your new here and reading reply’s from seasoned members listen to them …they know from trial and error.

 

[St. Coemgen]

Now is not the time to think about new wood burning installations. For many reasons, that everyone knows about so I do not need to list, the cost of dinosaur squeezings is rather expensive. So panic, and exploitation of that panic, is inevitable.

Quite frankly, many here get 2 or three (or more) years ahead on their wood stacks. If this were a stock market, one could say they hedged their investment. And that is now paying dividends as they paid less two years ago versus the prices now. Sorry for all that now get into the market for wood heating.... but that is how it is.

And sadly, many governments have been "advocating" wood heating as a way to literally cheat on their CO2 admission standards. And have promoted wood heating as a alternative to dinosaur squeezings. Much to the damage of actual carbon sequestering of many forests and ecosystems. And not due to market pressures, but often more to 'grants' and 'subsidies' for people to invest in wood or pellet stoves to meet political mandates. How weird is that?

In short : Not everyone can have a wood stove and make burning wood economical. Those that can use wood economically should. And those that can not, should not. Let the market decide. While I support smart government fiscal investment into certain possibly sound projects (highways, some large scale energy projects --- of all types, etc) I really am not fond of government grants or rebates to individuals to simply "buy" something. That often turns out poorly.

 

[Eman85]

Woodburning becomes a lifestyle. You get the reward of the heat and accomplishment but it's not as much about the economics. Right now the economics are playing in favor of the stove shops and firewood sellers. When you see quotes on 8k stove/chimney estimates and $500 cord firewood it makes you wonder.

 

[Enzo's Dad]

I have 2.5 years of wood and I’m constantly adding so I’m fine . However I am still amazed by the cost of everything lately . It looked like electric heat would be cheaper than oil this year in Connecticut but then Eversource announced a 50 percent rate increase effective January 1

 

[BillBurns]

Not to brag, but I get my wood for free. I have to drive 12 miles round trip, but its worth every penny in gas. I get wood that goes to the landfill if no one takes it. But its free, dry, and it helps out a LOT to save on oil. I turn it on in the morning, but after it takes the chill off I turn to wood. I only used probably 1/16 of a tank so far, and its been chilly (PA)...was 11 he other morning. NOTHING beats the feel of wood heat to me, nothing. Well, Im wrong. Body heat with your spouse works real good.

 

[hatallica]

Body heat with your spouse works real good.

If I find you snuggling with my spouse, then things will definitely get heated!

Well, tell me about this wood source and maybe we can make a deal.

 

[Newbie78]

Nearly free wood on our own land and lots of it, lower line stove installed myself complete with chimney, and our cost nearly came out even in one season (7 months of heating for real and even an occasional summer fire here and there because it's too damn cold here most of the time). Sam McGee country almost.



CO2, the gas of life.

 

[Allagash350]

The price for heating in all forms has gone up. We got a heat pump last year then they increased electric by 88%.
Oil is over $5 a gallon and a cord of wood is well over 300. Even green wood can be 250+.

That being said, being able to source wood from the side of the road or your property gives you a sense of independence that you can’t put a price tag on.
Yes you spend money on equipment but being self sufficient is huge, plus as other have said, it is a life style.

 

[Ashful]

I believe I've saved a few tens of thousands of dollars, but you have to be careful how you argue that. I'm keeping most of my first floor around 73 - 76F all day and night, and even most of my second floor near 70F all day and night. I'm burning a crap ton of wood to do that, and if you calculate the direct BTU replacement conversion to oil price on that, your head would spin. But the truth is that I'd never burn nearly that amount of oil, as my programmable thermostats would have the second floor down at 62F all day and night, except an hour each morning and evening. We'd also keep our first floor at 70F during the day, and have that also down to 62F at night, if not for firewood.

Back when I joined this forum, people were buying Englander NC30's for $700, and an expensive non-cat was $2500, The BK Ashford 30 was introduced around $3k, which was an expensive stove, at the time. Installed costs vary all over the place (liner vs. full chimney, NC30 vs. Ashford 30), but we were seeing a lot of full-turnkey installed cost quotes in the $3k's, and very rarely ever above mid-$5k's.

It seems from the quotes posted more recently, $7k - $9k has become pretty common. Maybe it's only a short-term blip due to a momentary surge in demand, due to Putin , COViD, more working from home. It's also likely a sign that many people are doing better, as more of these quotes seem to show more high-end stoves.

It'd be interesting to work up an Excel spreadsheet into which users could plug in various numbers or select options to calculate a 5, 10, 20 year budget. Suggested inputs:

1. One-time direct costs:
   1. Stove
   2. Install (liner, chimney, hearth)
   3. Accessories (ash vac, tongs, rake, gloves, wood bin)
   4. Wood racks / shed
   5. Maul or splitter
   6. Chimney cleaning supplies
2. One-time ancillary costs
   1. Better chainsaw(s) than you'd otherwise own
   2. Better PPE than you'd otherwise own
   3. Better tractor than you'd otherwise own
   4. Better wagon or wheelbarrow than you'd otherwise own
3. Annual costs
   1. Wood
   2. Fuel, bar oil
   3. Splitter and saw maintenance
   4. Sweep
   5. Stove maintenance (gaskets, cat combustor, etc.)
4. Annual savings, calculated two ways
   1. High number: BTU into house due to wood consumed at assumed efficiency, and converted to current pricing of your fuel of choice
   2. Low number: Actual oil, gas, electricity savings over prior $/HDD rate or annual cost (scaled for inflation)
5. Eventual return on investment
   1. Sale of tractor
   2. Sale of wood splitter
   3. Sale of chainsaws
   4. Sale of last firewood

I didn't include sale of stove, assuming that goes with the house, or is otherwise not worth much by the time you're done with it.

Return on investment can get muddy, especially on high-dollar items like tractors. I have always sold every tractor I've ever owned for approximately what I paid for it, but the value of the dollar is always lower in the future. If I paid $40k for a tractor in 2019, and then sell that tractor for $40k in 2040, some ignorant person would say it was free. But it cost me $33,600 in inflation (average 3.10%), or more accurately, $115,000 in 20 years of lost investment opportunity (ave 7%). Even worse for anyone who had to take a loan to buy a tractor, and paid interest (in today's dollars! ) on that investment depreciated by inflation.

 

[Hwkmn05]

As a wood burner of 42 years I find my motivation for hustling firewood and burning it is not only the savings. When I started burning wood at $55 a cord and coal, #2 oil was $.50-70 per gal. Hardly a savings then, however the comfort of constant warmth and heat security are still priceless. I have yet to purchase a brand new stove or pay more than $200 per cord. That may be a challenge now, but Im always 2-3 years ahead on my dry stack.

 

[Ashful]

I've never bought any wood, but have more than paid for it in time and equipment.

 

[Jsd245]

I don’t know- I would burn about 800 gallons of oil for heat during the heating season. if I wasn‘t burning my stove. I burn about 4 cords to offset this. Even if my wood was not free (I get it off my own land, but going rate in Eastern ct for firewood now is $250-300 a cord) and I had t installed my stove almost 10 years ago and had to install it today, it wouldn’t take more than two heating seasons to recoup that investment With oil touching $6.00 a gallon. Plus as everyone point out my house is much warmer than it would be if I was burning oil.

 

[Enzo's Dad]

I agree with everything posted above im never going back to not burning wood. I love the sense of accomplishment of filling a wood shed and a 80 degree living room. I read several threads here and I was blown away with costs and peoples expectations. In my case I have never paid for wood and I don’t see that happening for several years I live on a wooded mountain where the utility company keeps dropping trees and leaving them. However my time is not free and neither is the gear, but it’s a lifestyle and I enjoy it.

 

[Tithis]

Our first winter in this house I had months where we paid $800 for propane while being very stingy with the heat, like we let the bottom floor drop to the 50s overnight with the top floor not a lot better, we used down comforters, heated mattress pads, electric blankets, etc to keep the costs down.

Now for that much I could get several cords of wood that would last me months. During the day when tempuratures are higher and its more efficient we let the heatpump run, at night when the temps drop we run the wood stove and keep the 2nd floor with our bedrooms in the 70s and the heatpump will barely run at all to top off the bottom floor.

It was certainly an economic decision for us. We had an old multi trunk maple fall worth several cords that we saved money on by not needing to get hauled away for thousands of dollars. Our rear chimney also needed to be partially rebuilt an we were able to include that as part of the install for the tax credit.

 

[BillBurns]

I feel everyone on the price of heat. Nothing beats the smell, sound, and the heat of wood. Is it a LOT of work sometimes? Yeah,but id rather do this than feed the oil companies.

 

[GrumpyDad]

It’s been almost 7 years since I bought my wood insert and I am finding that this year with Oil jumping to nearly $5 a gallon everyone is interested in burning wood. The problem is the costs have skyrocketed. I was able to find a floor model Hampton Hi300 for $1800 dollars in the fall of 2015 . I think I bought the smooth 5.5” liner for 750, and the block off plate and Roxul insulation was about 150. So all in it was about 3k. I think that stove this year is $3800.
Will burning wood save you money.? Probably not.. this is a lifestyle and everything changes. You will definitely be warmer my entire first floor is in the mid 70s all winter. But honestly my wife now says that 73 is cold. When we used just oil the house was 65 to 66. To keep it warm takes a lot of time and Effort. It have not paid for wood ever it’s everywhere near me. I did buy a Kawasaki mule ,built woodsheds,bought chainsaws etc.. so it’s far from free. I also feel that there is price gouging going on in the wood stove business, but it is supply and demand
I am reading all the posts here and I blown away by the costs. I also noticed the advice here is sound and honest. Installing a block off plate on an insert makes all the difference, seasoned wood is a must( you think you know what seasoned wood is but you have no idea until you burn for several seasons. If your new here and reading reply’s from seasoned members listen to them …they know from trial and error.

It's not uncommon for me to get enough snow that Im trapped for a couple of days. Couple that with a usual power outage, and the fireplace/wood stove were fairly important as backups to our oil furnace which will soon be replaced with mini splits.

I do think there is sticker shock with stoves. However, you are paying for transport and likely some level of insurance liability as well as R&D to be compliant with clean air regs. I paid 3k for my stove. If it worked as it should, I wouldnt be too disappointed. The Jotul I was looking at was 1k cheaper, and I should have gotten that to be honest and probably will sell my current and go to the Jotul. The Jotul to me, is FAR more reasonable in price. It's worth every penny having seen it live in action now.

What ISNT logical to me are the costs of the pipe. I paid 1.5k for a fairly short run of double wall black pipe , a 5' chimney section, cap, roof flashing, ceiling support box. There's not much to these pieces either. That's 1.5k cheaper than a local dealer/store wanted to sell me their 'made in the usa' brand.

 

[BillBurns]

To Hatallica.....does jump into the fire sound like your kind of song? I take it youre reffering to Metallica the band?

 

[BillBurns]

Grumpydad.....I feel ya, im in PA too......every day is a different shade of grey, lol.

 

[Ashful]

Which side of PA, Bill?

 

[GrumpyDad]

I believe I've saved a few tens of thousands of dollars, but you have to be careful how you argue that. I'm keeping most of my first floor around 73 - 76F all day and night, and even most of my second floor near 70F all day and night. I'm burning a crap ton of wood to do that, and if you calculate the direct BTU replacement conversion to oil price on that, your head would spin. But the truth is that I'd never burn nearly that amount of oil, as my programmable thermostats would have the second floor down at 62F all day and night, except an hour each morning and evening. We'd also keep our first floor at 70F during the day, and have that also down to 62F at night, if not for firewood.

Back when I joined this forum, people were buying Englander NC30's for $700, and an expensive non-cat was $2500, The BK Ashford 30 was introduced around $3k, which was an expensive stove, at the time. Installed costs vary all over the place (liner vs. full chimney, NC30 vs. Ashford 30), but we were seeing a lot of full-turnkey installed cost quotes in the $3k's, and very rarely ever above mid-$5k's.

It seems from the quotes posted more recently, $7k - $9k has become pretty common. Maybe it's only a short-term blip due to a momentary surge in demand, due to Putin , COViD, more working from home. It's also likely a sign that many people are doing better, as more of these quotes seem to show more high-end stoves.

It'd be interesting to work up an Excel spreadsheet into which users could plug in various numbers or select options to calculate a 5, 10, 20 year budget. Suggested inputs:

1. One-time direct costs:
   1. Stove
   2. Install (liner, chimney, hearth)
   3. Accessories (ash vac, tongs, rake, gloves, wood bin)
   4. Wood racks / shed
   5. Maul or splitter
   6. Chimney cleaning supplies
2. One-time ancillary costs
   1. Better chainsaw(s) than you'd otherwise own
   2. Better PPE than you'd otherwise own
   3. Better tractor than you'd otherwise own
   4. Better wagon or wheelbarrow than you'd otherwise own
3. Annual costs
   1. Wood
   2. Fuel, bar oil
   3. Splitter and saw maintenance
   4. Sweep
   5. Stove maintenance (gaskets, cat combustor, etc.)
4. Annual savings, calculated two ways
   1. High number: BTU into house due to wood consumed at assumed efficiency, and converted to current pricing of your fuel of choice
   2. Low number: Actual oil, gas, electricity savings over prior $/HDD rate or annual cost (scaled for inflation)
5. Eventual return on investment
   1. Sale of tractor
   2. Sale of wood splitter
   3. Sale of chainsaws
   4. Sale of last firewood

I didn't include sale of stove, assuming that goes with the house, or is otherwise not worth much by the time you're done with it.

Return on investment can get muddy, especially on high-dollar items like tractors. I have always sold every tractor I've ever owned for approximately what I paid for it, but the value of the dollar is always lower in the future. If I paid $40k for a tractor in 2019, and then sell that tractor for $40k in 2040, some ignorant person would say it was free. But it cost me $33,600 in inflation (average 3.10%), or more accurately, $115,000 in 20 years of lost investment opportunity (ave 7%). Even worse for anyone who had to take a loan to buy a tractor, and paid interest (in today's dollars! ) on that investment depreciated by inflation.

Sometimes you have to consider that there are other benefits that would be impossible to calculate as well as risks
There are some health benefits to doing all the work required vs just turning a known, assuming you don't roll the tractor on yourself or cut off a limb like my neighbor.

There is also the mind benefit of doing the work and enjoying the fruits of your labor. Unless of course you absolutely hate the work and it drives you crazy.

And you mentioned the security of heating with wood. But there is insecurity if something should happen to you whereas you couldn't collect and load the wood.

Everything has its pros and cons. It's very hard to quantify.

In that case you have to keep it simple. List the pros and cons then do some simple math.
You would spend this much on oil, and spend this much on wood (depreciate the equipment used over the usable lifespan plus maintenance) then list your time and assign a dollar value of what you would pay someone to have an hour to yourself. I assign my free time as worth 30 an hour and it would be very hard to find someone to work that cheap for me. So I diy everything

 

[Ashful]

I assign my free time as worth 30 an hour and it would be very hard to find someone to work that cheap for me. So I diy everything

You're cheap! Can I hire you, here?

Just kidding, I get what you mean. But to those of us who are self-employed, there is no such thing as "free time". A free hour is just another I could fill with billable hours. Perspective changes, when you're not drawing a salary.

 

[marty319]

I've been retired since 2011.my drafty old cottage has 10000 watts of baseboard that rarely gets used.if I had to heat with them it would be 500 a month in our cold climate. My costs for wood are
Truck ins 2 months-93.00
Wood cutting permit-43
Gas for truck and chainsaws-200.00
My free time and staying in shape harvesting 5 cords yearly priceless

 

[clux]

You can by a 350 long block for the price of a lot of woodstoves. That's crazy considering the difference in the precision of parts that go into them. Somebody in the production chain has to be making a boatload of money on stoves.

 

[marty319]

I agree totally My osburn 3300 went from 2699 to 3499 last year.

 

[bholler]

Woodburning becomes a lifestyle. You get the reward of the heat and accomplishment but it's not as much about the economics. Right now the economics are playing in favor of the stove shops and firewood sellers. When you see quotes on 8k stove/chimney estimates and $500 cord firewood it makes you wonder.

The stove shops aren't making much more off of it at all. We are just passing along the price increases we seeing