The most confusing pellet stove specs on the market today!

Hello

Well, I found it!The Ashley AP5660 or the US Stove 5660 Bay Front Wood Pellet Stove!
Trying to find more info and specs I get alot of conflicting information!
Does anyone else own this stove and what comments do you have?

Wow, All the different specs and varied looks from one brochure or web site to another is just unbelievable! They are made in China ! ! !

One place says 50 lb hopper and another says 55 lb hopper
One place says weight is 270 lbs and another says 250 lbs still another says 209 lbs !!
61 lb difference !! I lifted it and it is not 270 lbs. That is for sure!

Heats a total of 1,500 or 1750 or 2,000 or 2,200 Square Feet? ? ?.

The price for this stove is all over the map ! ! !

On the whole so far, I do actually like this stove! It puts out great heat (48k BTU) for it's size and has nice tension latches for the door and ash pan. The side doors have easy access magnetic latches. The digital control panel has a simplistic look and only has Auto-Hi/Lo with the T-Stat but on the inside, is the only one I have ever seen that is protected by a plastic case from shorts or static charges! The fire brick and logs are the cheap styrofoam but included in the price so not too bad! The chrome trim and 3 sided bay front has a great look. In the right side of the stove, the squirrel cage room blower mounted sideways with the Fasco blower motor on top maybe the only drawback. It can be loud and vibrate when warming up on the lower heat settings. USSC is aware of this issue and if you give them the serial # they will send a replacement. The manual and the brochure show a clunky door handle but most of the stoves really have the hidden tension latches which are much better.

Also to adjust that damper they show in the stove manual, you must call USSC to send one out first!
See > http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/us-stove-5660-damper.78719/#post-1003621

Price
Woodland Direct is $2829.00 - Ok door is a little more fancy but that is all! - Ahsley AP5660
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Wood-...500-sqft/Ashley-AP5660-Bay-Front-Pellet-Stove

US Stove Company Web Site $0.00 since they do not have any in stock! US Stove 5660
https://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=511

Dynamite Buys is $2564.05 with a fancy grill - Hudson River Sarnac Stove
http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1946

Northline Express MSRP is $2123.13 and their price is $1799.00 - US Stove 5660
http://www.northlineexpress.com/item/5SV-5660/Bay-Front-Pellet-Stove-5660

Amazon.com price is $1798.00 - US Stove 5660
http://www.amazon.com/5660-Bay-Fron...EBJA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339725162&sr=8-1

Home Depot is $1549.00 - US Stove 5660
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/us-stove-2000-sq-ft-bay-front-pellet-stove-403398.html

Also the 5660 and the Saranac Stove appear to be one in the same stove with minor appearance changes and the differing auger cycle times using a better digital control board!

Web site for the Chinese manufacturer
http://jhxinan.en.alibaba.com/produ...9/Pellet_Stove.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1

The two for feed rates and auger run times:

Saranac
1-on 4 sec off 12 sec = 1.6 lb/hr
2-on 6 sec off 10 sec = 2.4 lb/hr
3-on 9 sec off 9 sec = 3.2 lb/hr
4- on 10 sec off 6 sec = 4 lb/hr
5-on 12 sec off 4 sec = 4.8 lb/hr


5660
1-on 2 sec off 5 sec = 1.9 lb/hr
2-on 3 sec off 3 sec = 3.3 lb/hr
3-on 5 sec off 3 sec = 4.1 lb/hr
4-on 7 sec off 3 sec = 4.6 lb/hr
5-on 10 sec off 3 sec = 5.1 lb/hr

This is if the manual is correctly stating max rate. I guess I am going to have to fake out the low temp switch and measure the feed rates as best I can. Next warm day project!

Thanks to all for your help and insight. I made another slight adjustment to the draft flow last night and it seems to be helping with burn consistency. I also made a quick cardboard "gauge" and slipped it behind the ball valve handle to have a reference for adjustments.

With the stove running on #3 for @1 hr, the oven thermometer was at 425 degrees with this mornings @27-30 degree outside draft air.

Smokey-have you had to order any parts for your stove? If so, did you get them straight from HRSW? The timing sequences on your stove seem to make more sense than the 5660's. Also a more linear feed rate increase.

The 5660 model I have does not look like any of the ones below!
It looks like pic # 2 without the door handle but without that fancy door grill work also! ! !

The Hudson River was discontinued by BAC Sales, they were the manufacturer, all made in China in 2008-09. Fraught with CB problems, snap disc location problems, wiring problems, bad convection motors, misaligned igniters and hopper/ feed tube separations. Any of these you still see for sale were left overs. Hudson River stoves are now made by Enviro (sherwood) and include the Westpoint, Davenport and Inglenook.

The Saranac was pretty much a copy of the St. Croix Ashby. The OEM manufacturer in China took the Saranac designs and out sourced to another manufacturer which then took those designs and copied them...and somewhat flooded the market with Chinese knockoffs which a lot of other companies now inherit, such as US Stove, Ashley, Forrester and many more. IF you have installed any of these off-shore peices of crap you'll understand...I had to stop installing Chinese stoves...nothing wrong with manufacturing there per se...iPhones and most consumer electronic all come from there but if the OEM isn't going to keep tight QC controls (i.e. importing and assembling in the USA) then what arrives is a junk stove.

AES (magnum) has this problem too. Units arrive missing components, mostly to the feed systems and within a couple of years are complete junk which require hundreds of dollars of parts and repairs.

Yes, I worked on a Magnum that was missing the top brass bushing on the Auger!

I picked up the US Stove 6550, different digital control board than the Sarnac. They are sending out a new convection motor free of charge. It does put out really good heat! Everything else seems good except the Hi Limit switch is only 200 Deg F and triggers when the stove is on the high setting sometimes. A 250 Deg F should cure that.

The Saranac has a very common control board in fact it has had at least three different control boards, you may get something different than I had.

Don, all replacement parts I've used were sourced other than through Hudson River aka BAC except the replacement burn pot. The issue with the convection blower was due to it being too close to the fire box and the lack of sufficient insulation. This caused the lubricant to dry out too fast and kept the ambient temperature inside the shell too high, the convection blower was also a bit undersized, this results in all sorts of fun and games. Installing the snorkel made a huge difference and up sizing the blower a bit finished that problem off.

It would also have helped if things weren't packed so damned tight.

The sealing of the combustion air path was shall we say not well done.

Also the burn pot should have had a gasket under the rim and a bit more in the way of welds. The lack of the gasket caused massive burn pot combustion air bypasses and the lack of a few welds caused the pot and rim to deform relative to each other leading to increased air bypass. The other major sealing issue was around the top of the auger flight cover and end plate, this needed a piece of flat gasket on my stove. The other place that needed a bit of good high temp RTV applied was the drop tube to auger feed joint. In case anyone wonders getting the bypasses cleaned up made a world of difference in how the stove burned.

The "Saranac" is known to exist under the Tasman and Savannah as well as Hudson River brand names.

Thanks Smokey

Since the MFD is 2011, there is a gasket on the Burn Pot. Thanks for explaining, I wondered why? LOL

What convection blower did you finally end up with? That would be real good to know. Do you have a link?
Maybe the hot temps explains the use of a Lytherm Gasket on Convection blower fan. Do you know how hot?

I do notice that the flame leans into the Auger Chute! Is that because the Auger Chute is not sealed correctly!

Under normal circumstances. The flame will have a "hole" in it or will push the fire away from the chute ans form a V. As it draws air into the firebox, through the chute. My Fahrenheit had a bad internal hopper gasket and when operating, the flame was almost split in two. Because of the air being blown into the firebox, from the chute.

Under rare circumstances, it can be sucked up. But there has to be a Very LARGE air mover to overcome the vacuum within the firebox.

I got my convection blower through the surplus center the FASCO numbers are:

P/N MF3541

LR6318

70730488

TYPE U73

115 Volt 60 Hz 1.0 AMP

1500 RPM

Please note my prior comment about the need to punch two holes in the blower flange in order to mount the blower. If you have a unit it also pays to check where the oil holes pointing when it is mounted on the stove (motor could be installed downside up so to speak)

The controller is a DHC3000/REV DSVH3001 unit like the ones used on some of the Enviro line, there were other controllers used at least one of them has multiple timing programs on it. It is possible that depending upon the physical setup of the stove that the wrong timing program gets selected.

If one looks at some of the posts on here they will find complaints that after a control board change their new firing rate 5 was the old 3 (can we say oops, thought so). What appears to be the same stove isn't always.

The auger flight cover did not close over the end plate on the feed assembly this leads to a change in burn when the pellets lower in the hooper (this happens in a lot of stoves that don't have a sealed hopper system, however in this case the level that it happens at is quite high).

The result, air gets drawn into the stove through the chute which exits above the burn pot and goes out the combustion air path which means there is less air going through the burn pot. This is not the only possible problem but the most likely one, I see Dexter mentioned over powering the combustion blower with another air mover in the house.

It is fairly normal for the gasket to be a high temperature one if the convection blower attaches close to a fire box.

Since the combustion air exits above the center of the stove and to both sides of the firebox the fire should stand up and not really lean either forward or backwards (stove must be reasonably clean). I've seen the fire lean backwards or forwards when the stove is dirty (it depends on where the ash plugs up the works. If where the chute pierces the firebox isn't properly sealed (welds or gaskets) it is possible for funny things to occur around the chute area including smoke exiting into where the convection fan pulls air from (oops).

Hello Smokey

Thanks so much. I know that blower, I replaced a Magnum Baby Countryside with the same one! It is a good blower and works very well. The side mounting motor will fit if pointing to the inside of the stove correct?

That is where I have it pointed but I have it on the snorkel which places it to the back of the stove.

ETA: I reserve judgment on all blowers from that manufacturer they are produced all over the place and QA has been interesting.

Will it fit without the snorkel?
If not where do you get the snorkel?

If the stove you have is the exact same as mine you should be able to get the snorkel as a warranty item, I'm not so sure your current puppy is the same as my puppy. First off your stove's blower isn't the same nor is the way it was mounted. That control board isn't the same as any of the three different ones I've seen on the Saranac.

I think the shell is the same except your decorative grill pattern, I just have straight grates. But if they are the exact same size, then the convection fan should mount the same and have the same amount of room. Can I see a pic of your convection fan?

see mine below

You'll have to wait until tomorrow camera batteries are in the charger. I went to take a picture and the camera said nope and shut down.

Does the back of your stove shell have a bump out behind the auger motor? I also do not have the original convection blower to the stove. Just the second and third one.

I see you said that that stove has a 200 hi limit on it, that is not the same as mine which is 250. I'll see if I can find a manual for that stove you are playing with now.

ETA: The installation instructions also do not give the same clearances for your unit and mine.

Looks like a classic SNAFU.

Yes, I do have the bump out so the auger does not hit the back. Do you?

Ah Ha. Another guy with my stove said the Hi Limit would kick if he ran it on high! So 250 Deg F is the way to go!

Don I wouldn't go that way first. If the convection system was matched to the combustion side the temperature out the front and that the hi limit sees should not really vary from 1 to 5. The heat output (volume of heated air delivered) should.

But what do I know I'm a woodland critter.

Ok, don't know what thus will do for you but here is a picture of my convection blower mounted to the snorkel please note the blower is of the opposite curve to yours and the other blower I have for my stove.

I did a bit of poking around in the manuals last night there are other differences than the controller and high limit inside the shell which is the same as yours except for the grate. The alcove size if installed into must be larger for my stove than is shown for the one you have. I suspect that the vacuum switch is also different which leads me to wonder about the combustion blower also being different as well.

Thanks for the Pic Smokey! I really appreciate it.

Looks like you went from 120 CFM to 160 CFM which is correct for the 45K BTU stove we have!
The slightly higher CFM flow reduces the stove temp for greater stability and reliability!

Now with the tricked up convection blower you turned that stove into a very reliable and mean heating machine!
Like a Hemi under glass!

Which company did you get the snorkel from USStove or Hudson River Stoves? ?

You may be right on the combustion blower. I will snap a pic of that when I have a min.

Hudson River but the original blower was a 160 CFM which did not work correctly on all speeds to remove the heat produced, the current unit is a 230 CFM blower but it seems to track well over all of the heating range. That unit should not have a 120 CFM blower on it.

With that high limit of 200 on the unit you'll have issues if the blower is only 120 CFM once you clear heat range 2. I seem to recall something somewhere saying 180 CFM is about the minimum.

The ideal situation is for the convection air temperature, fire box temperature, and exhaust temperature to remain the same over all firing settings. Not something that likely happens much (there are other considerations, and anyone reading this needs to understand that temperature is not the same as how much heat is coming out of their stove.).

Hi Smokey

I am not 100% sure on the specs for the OEM convection blower in this stove since it does not say in the US Stove 5660 manual or on the Fasco blower. I just found only one web site that advertises the 5660 and states it is 120 CFM. Also not sure of the CFM of the Magnum MF3541 blower since it does not say in the Magnum BabyCountrySide manual or on their web site.

I just ordered a 250 Deg F manual reset Hi Limit Switch for this stove from a place in Reno Nevada just like the one I put in a customer's Baby CountrySide because the OEM swich is 225 Deg F and was tripping too easily.
I started a new thread on this separate issue.
http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/...t-snap-disc-popping-on-high-heat-level.87544/

Just found a site that gives the CFM on the MF3541
http://www.waynesev.com/ev/motorinstall.html

Sorry I just thought it might be 160 CFM so thanks for correcting me. It is 230 CFM
Finding this spec is like pulling teeth!


Because I have AC power from the DC to AC inverter, using AC to power the cooling blower sounds like a good idea.I have decided to replace the motor with a AC blower and not to have this brush changing circus every 3 years or so.I have ordered a "230 CFM, 115 VAC, FASCO MF3541, CENTRIFUGAL BLOWER" from Surplus Center.com.I will attach the needed brackets, screen and cover when it arrives.

Just not sure if I can verify the 120 CFM spec on the Blower I have now. If you know a way please let me know!