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Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by oldmountvernon, Oct 18, 2013.
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Wow! that's pretty slick.
I've been looking at UPS systems (or maybe a generator) for my CAB50, as well as keeping my old wood stove all hooked up.
This is an interesting option!
Great stove for a hunting cabin or workshop...
Would love to see what you get for heat out of it.
I'm still a noob to pellet burners, but something about the specs doesn't add up.
The specs list the output (or input?) at 58k btus, I'm assuming that's per hour as it normally is.
The specs also list a burn time on high (which I'm assuming is what generates that 58k btus) of 12 hours for 40# of pellets.
What am I missing? That math doesn't seem to work out at all.
Strange. Seems like a lot of work to get it going
Good point. I get almost exactly HALF of the 58K BTU when I do the math. Hmmm...
Unless you can somehow employ a fan to extract the heat off the metal , this stove doesn`t look to be an efficient design at all. I`m sure it works to some intended degree but the world is full of inventions that work but are of very limited use or appeal. Obviously it`s designed for use where electricity isn`t found but those places are far and few and usually with better alternatives available.
Yup, that's what I found as well.
There are plenty of applications for this stove... hunters, guides, folks who live off the grid... I've been snowmobiling in the Colorado rockies and the tour operators live in the mountains 24/7 without electricity (in a tent btw)... and an old friend is a rancher out there and they bring their cattle down from the higher elevations and live off the grid all winter. This would be perfect.
There are other non-electric stoves out there but this one is much larger and refined than the others I've seen. A niche market for sure but there is some demand I would think.
The WiseWay is for home use too and offers a simple alternative to electric pellet stoves. Here is my own experience... I live in Vermont and have a 3 bedroom ranch style home - about 1500 SF on the main floor. The Wiseway stove is located at one end of the house. I have been using it for primary heat since December 1 - no back up.. It takes less than 10 minutes to get up to temp (500 degrees - It gets up to 650 if I let it) from a cold start and less than 20 minutes total to fully clean and get up to temp from a cold start. It keeps the house around 70 to 75. Initially I was using a bag and a half a day. I recently switched pellet brands to a super premium brand (no price difference for me) and I am now burning a bag a day. I love the simplicity of the stove and am amazed with it's ability to heat my home so well. I may put one in the basement next year and see if I can manage to heat both floors with it.
I do not currently have any fans hooked up to circulate heat. However, in the colder months ahead, I will most likely need to. I have found the stove to be safe, reliable and most importantly, warm! Very warm. I will say that I forgot to check the hopper last night before I went to bed and the fire went out due to an empty hopper. Prior to that, the stove had run non-stop for 3 days. The house was 55 this morning at 9:30. I had it up and running at 500 degrees by 9:50 and the house is now 62 degrees. Obviously letting the stove go out in the night is not the best thing to do but it gave me an opportunity to clean it. I could have shut it down and let it cool and been in better shape temperature wise though.
Wow! 200% efficiency!
If you believe everything he said, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
Are the wheels so that you can get it out of the house fast when you get a "burn back"?
Yeah, this bugs me. Here's my math:
Max burn rate listed: 40# in 12 hours, 3.3 #/hr
At 8500 btu/# for pellets, that's an input of 28050 btu/hr
At the 75% efficiency they state on their site (which seems like reasonable number) that's a maximum output of 21037 btu/hr
So they're either overstating the output/input by about double, which I would think the EPA rating wouldn't support, or understating the consumption rate by a similar amount. If it were 10 or 20% off on the math, I could write that off to fuel differences or something, but this seems like way to big a disparity.
I'm considering asking them directly about it, though I'm not really looking for a stove. It seems especially deceptive since their comparison chart compares it to stoves with that level of output.
Does BTu output account for the radiance factor? These, like wood stoves, are designed to be a big heat sink in the room from what I gather. While the pellets only produce said BTu's, can the effective BTU be higher?
Hmm, not an expert on that at all. Just thinking about it, I think that it would have the opposite affect. The heatsink would absorb the heat from the fire and "delay" it getting to the room, so the btu/hr output would be less than the input, but would continue to radiate after the fire's gone out.
I'm not sure this stove has enough mass for that to be a significant factor though. It's not like it's a masonry hearth that weighs several tons, I'd guess that the stove is cooled down within an hour after the fire's gone out.
I don't think you can have more btus than the pellets you're burning are producing though, and that's what it seems is required for these numbers to make sense. You can fiddle with how the energy get's converted and distributed, but the only energy you have to work with is what's there from the fuel.
Hopefully someone more versed in this aspect can chime in because I don't know what I'm talking about.
For comparison sakes what do other manufacturers claim? And are they also far off. I can't seem to find the pound per hour on my quad or an XXV for comparison.
my stove claims max of 5.5 lbs / hour and 27k btu
Mine claims 5.17 #/hr max, which gives 43945 btu/hr input (with 8500 btu/# pellets).
At 75% efficiency, that's 32959 btu/hr output.
The spec lists 35023 btu/hr as the max output.
Very close, I believe there are pellets that will put out more than 8500 btu/# out there, and I don't have the exact efficiency number for my stove. But it all seems to jive.
I believe what you're working with there is the "min" burn rate. Some stoves I've seen list the min and max #'s per hour this one appears to list only the longest burn on 40#s (last I looked).
At max burn time you have min pellet feed. So that might explain your 50% finding.
I would have gone for this as part of my pellet intent is/was to keep my FHW heat system from freezing during extended power outage. Problem for me was this needs a full 8' ceiling height and I'm a few inches shy of that. Not ready to line my drop ceiling over the stove. So I'll put in a small diesel generator burning heating oil to feed electric to a Maxx.
Would have really liked to try this one but I can appreciate why they wouldn't want to spring for re-test just to get a lower ceiling height. In their form he states a lower height but his "word" won't fly with a building inspector or insurance company.
Don't think that's it, from: http://www.wisewaypelletstoves.com/central-point-or-stove-specifications.htm
Actual burn time on high 40 lb.: 12-14 hours
Actual burn time on low 40 lb.: 34-36 hours
So min rate for 40# is 36 hours, max is 12.
I suppose it's possible that there's some setting beyond "High", maybe with a damper completely removed or something, that is not considered normal operation, if that's the case it's still quite deceptive as I think a reasonable person would assume high=max output.
So much for my addled memory. Was working from your quote "Max burn time listed 40#s".
excuse: Been a while since I looked at this due to the ceiling height problem in my case.
So there's still some physics to be discovered, somewhere in this thing!
Oops, you're right, I changed it to max burn rate instead of time. Thanks for catching that.
So, poking through the manual for some inkling I found the data plate on the back of the stove on the last page: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B3n7JzfkF1GKUm81MDdqaHJONTg
It lists the max burn rate as 5.5#/hr.
That gives a max input 46750, output of 35063, and a burn time for 40# of 7.3 hours. Closer to what they claim, but still off by quite a bit.
Closing it down folks. The guy that resurrected the thread is the Vermont dealer for Wiseway stoves.