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Thermo-Control IWB? Any Help Appreciated

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by shawnr, Oct 14, 2012.

  1. shawnr

    shawnr New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Loc:
    Patterson, New York
    I have not been able to find much on this site about the National Stove Works Thermo-Control Indoor Wood Boilers. I was looking at the model 2000 or 3000 and was happy to learn that they were located in Cobleskill, NY only about 2 1/2 hours north of me. Any thoughts on theses stoves?
    I spoke to a rep from Empyre yesterday and we spoke about how to calculate my heating needs...he came up with a reccomendation of the Empyre Elite 200 IWB.
    Basically, I have 2800 sq/ft living space, 600 garage, 1600 basement at 3/4 below grade, and a proposed 1,000 sq/ft garage with room above that I'd like to heat.
    The Thermo-Control folks claim that their stoves ( 2000 and 3000) put 20% of the heat output into the room where they are located, so I wasn't sure if I even needed to run heating pipes in the out building or just use the radiant heat that comes off the stove. Suppose I could run the pipes and turn the thermostat off.
    My house currently heats with a Bock oil fired boiler with baseboard hot water and a phase III indirect water storage tank.
    Thanks,
    Shawnr

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  2. chewy

    chewy Member

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    Indiana
    Bump
  3. stee6043

    stee6043 Minister of Fire

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    I personally have not heard of the brand you're asking about. But I can tell you that 20% "loss" directly from the boiler seems very, very high to me. Many of us on this board have indoor units and 20% loss would heat my entire house during peak burn, and then some. That comment right there would make me want to move along, talk to the next guy. Just my two cents.
  4. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

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    Nova Scotia
    http://www.nationalstoveworks.com/boilers.html

    I don't know anything about them either, but there's Google.

    Looks like they're uninsulated - hence the 20% 'loss'. By the time you add the insulation option (if wanted), you're almost at $5500 for the smallest one. If it'll sit in a place you'd heat anyway, you might not have to insulate - but if it radiates any more than you need to heat that space, it'll be wasted heat. You could get an insulated gassifier for less than that much. Well, maybe not one big enough for you - but likely not much difference in price comparing the bigger ones either. After burning a gassifier for not quite two weeks now (so I'm still on a learning curve) - there is no way I'd burn anything but.

    Did you get a price on the Empyre he recommended?
  5. rwh442

    rwh442 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
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    139
    Loc:
    Southeast Indiana
    I have a TC2000 in my 1600 sq ft detached garage that heats my 2050 sq ft ranch house with full basement. As someone mentioned they are uninsulated. The boiler keeps my detached garage typically in the mid 60's all winter from the " lost" heat which is great because I spend quite a bit of time out there. House is kept at 71 degrees. Last year I used around 7 full cords for the mild winter. Just slightly over 8 cords is typical for me. Insulating the boiler or placing it in a basement would reduce wood consumption.
  6. shawnr

    shawnr New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
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    6
    Loc:
    Patterson, New York
    Thanks for the replies on this topic. Since my first post, I have spoken to several owners of the Thermo-Control IWB's and they were all really positive about there stoves. So...last night I picked up a lightly used Thermo-control Model 2500. The previous owner used it for only 2 seasons to heat an old 6,000 sq/ft farmhouse with poor insulation. He decided to sell the stove because he never got a permit for the install and is now selling the estate and needs to clear up a violation. It was pretty fun trying to move a 3/4 ton stove by hand. We had great luck with a pallet jack and a few come-alongs to winch it onto my trailer. It was actually harder to unload off the trailer and keep it held back from rolling off!

    Maple1- I got a price on the Empire Elite 200 of $9400 just for the stove.

    Thought I'd try the Thermo-Control unit since they are made close to home and I wanted to keep my business "local". Got the stove for half the cost of a new one. Including installation and underground piping, I should come out for around the price of a new stove ($6,000).

    I currently heat my house with a Vermont Castings Defiant and we typically burn 6-7 cord. Will sell the Defiant next year to offset some of the cost of this project. Really looking forward to next year to see how the IWB will perform. Need to build a larger garage to house a toy or two and the IWB.

    Regards,
    Shawn
  7. Gasifier

    Gasifier Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    St. Lawrence River Valley, N.Y.
    Hey Shawn. Congrats on the find of the used unit. Be sure to read up on hearth.com on how to properly insulate those underground pipes you are talking about. Very important. If not done properly you will be keeping a lot of worms and grubs warm and maybe not getting enough heat where you want it. Keep us up to date. Got pics?
  8. Boiler Installer

    Boiler Installer New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
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    Loc:
    Saugerties New York
    Hi Shawn,

    Nice to see you picked up the Model 2500. Sounds like one I may have installed. That unit is a 200k btu stove that sure will exceed most expectations. It is a first generation gasification unit that is 76% AFUE and is zero maintenance aside from taking some ash out.. These boilers were introduced in the mid 70's and have been sold all over North America for 40 years.

    I am somewhat amused by the 20% heat loss during peak burn comment. I can't imagine how heat that is used to heat the building it is installed in can be considered heat loss. If you are heating your out building the heat isn't lost. The key is to have the out building insulated and then count that into the square footage of the heating area.

    Looks like you have about 5000 sq.ft. that you are heating with the model 2500. Did you ever build the additional 1000 ft garage with the room above? Seems like your pushing the limit on the square footage already. You must be burning about 9/11 cord. Well this winter is off the wall so it could even be more depending on the quality of your wood. I would be curious to here how your doing with it.

    I happen to like the Thermo Control Legacy line. Too bad the EPA's New Source Performance Standard coming to a final rule on November 14th 2014 will outlaw the sale of these older stoves all in the name of 10% more efficiency. I say get one while you can!!!

    I'm sure I'll be taken some heat for this post. Hope to hear from you Shawn
  9. shawnr

    shawnr New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Loc:
    Patterson, New York
    I have not yet installed the stove. I will be starting construction of the new garage with a dedicated boiler room in the spring if it ever arrives.
    Hope to be using the boiler for next season.
    Will keep you posted as work begins

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