Thinking about it...

[Flashback87]

Hi,

Thinking about converting existing masonary fireplace and putting a wood stove in it. I burn a lot of wood in my fireplace and love it. But with natural gas prices going up and my decent firewood supply, I'm thinking a wood stove would be beneficial and eventually save some money.

Current fireplace is a center of the home
interior fireplace with 3 flues. Center flue is the fireplace, one is unused and the other is for the boiler/steam heat.

Fireplace dims are 27Hx31Wx22 deep. A local place has a true north TN20. From research, it seems like a decent stove for the price. The reason I want the stove is because we may build an addition down the road and I can take the stove out and put it in the addition and have my open fireplace back.


I had an installer come out and he didn't really have any concerns. Biggest, is the flue collar height being a little taller then my opening but the tile on my hearth can come off (dont really like it anyways) and he said he can do some notching in the firebrick to slide it in.

The house is a 1900 square ft ranch on slab. The chimney goes through the attic. Here is a pic of fireplace

So, this stove will be a tight fit and I'm hoping for some insight if I might be disappointed.

It's a pretty good investment and I'd hate to drop some money and have buyers remorse. My concern is I'm trying to hard to make something fit that shouldn't.

What do you think? Will I be pleased with the heat output and savings from boiler not running as much?

Any other concerns with my set up?

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Seems like the TN20 insert would be a better bet. The TN20 is a good stove but 28 1/8" tall and the opening is 27". That's too tight. The Jotul F45 with the short leg kit would be a better fit for a freestanding stove.

In order to put a stove in the fireplace, a stainless liner would need to be installed, and ideally, a blockoff plate installed in the damper area. This alone will be a fair chunk of change for a temporary setup.

 

[Flashback87]

Im leaning toward the stove because the insert is so permanent. The addition is not gonna happen for awhile if ever so the stove would stay for awhile.

What is the downside with such a tight fit on height? Once the flue collar is in the fire box, the height of the TN20 is 26.25 inches. I shoukd have decent room on the sides, just the top will be tight. Are there performance issue? Will I still get good heat output?

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

The insert is no more permanent than a wood stove. They both need the same infrastructure.

3/4" clearance over the stovetop is not much. The stove needs more for the blower to work well.

 

[Flashback87]

The insert is no more permanent than a wood stove. They both need the same infrastructure.

3/4" clearance over the stovetop is not much. The stove needs more for the blower to work well.

Unless I'm missing something, if we build an addition, I was going to remove this stove and place in my addition as a free standing unit to heat that space. I don't hink I can do that with an insert unless we build a another fireplace in the addition, but that would be pricey...

So, with this tight squeeze at the height, will I not get much heat output?

I appreciate the insight... thanks!

 

[begreen]

Correct, but the insert could be sold at that time and an appropriately sized freestander purchased then.

Radiant (unshielded) stoves are not the best for fireplace installs. The Jotul F45 is more convective in design. The blower system in the TN20 blows across the top of the stove to convect the heat. It should have some free air space above the stovetop to do this efficiently.

One thing that might? be possible could be to install the TN20, without legs, on cement half-blocks or bricks. That would lower it considerably. Care would have to be taken to not block any air intake or air control mechanism and yet fully support the stove. I have not studied the bottom of this stove thoroughly to determine if this is a good option.

 

[Flashback87]

Correct, but the insert could be sold at that time and an appropriately sized freestander purchased then.

Radiant (unshielded) stoves are not the best for fireplace installs. The Jotul F45 is more convective in design. The blower system in the TN20 blows across the top of the stove to convect the heat. It should have some free air space above the stovetop to do this efficiently.

One thing that might? be possible could be to install the TN20, without legs, on cement half-blocks or bricks. That would lower it considerably. Care would have to be taken to not block any air intake or air control mechanism and yet fully support the stove. I have not studied the bottom of this stove thoroughly to determine if this is a good option.

Good info... thanks!

Any idea how the tn20 stove would perform without the blower? Would it still throw a good amount of heat?

Seems like the tn20 would still stick out of the firebox a decent amount on the mantle so I was hoping that would put out more heat?

The jotul does seem better with the short legs but I don't see anyone near me that carries it, northeast Ohio.

 

[begreen]

Any idea how the tn20 stove would perform without the blower? Would it still throw a good amount of heat?

Not as well. It will throw out a lot of heat but much of that heat will be absorbed and transmitted to the outdoors via the cold exterior face of the fireplace.

 

[Flashback87]

Not as well. It will throw out a lot of heat but much of that heat will be absorbed and transmitted to the outdoors via the cold exterior face of the fireplace.

Not as well. It will throw out a lot of heat but much of that heat will be absorbed and transmitted to the outdoors via the cold exterior face of the fireplace.

It's an interior chimney right in the middle of the house, not exterior. The back side of the fireplace is the kitchen.

Does that make a difference?

Really appreciate the advise to help me decide if this is a wise purchase.

Thanks!

 

[stoveliker]

It's a center of the home fireplace, no exterior walls, so that concern can be taken away.

But what does taking off the legs of the tn20 do for the UL listing?

 

[EbS-P]

My advice is buy now for the current location. Get the best fist for now. You will enjoy an insert more asi it’s performance will just be better than the free standing stove.

The TN-20 is about the cheapest good stoves come.

Now I have a free standing stove in my interior chimney. I use the blower on low 75 % of the time and on high when ever it’s cold out. The interior chimney helps and makes it kinda like a masonry heater but it’s not. It’s still a convective stove in a very confined space.

I have 3” from the stove top to the lintel and that’s as low as I would ever go.

When you get the addition done get the right stove for it. May you want a different look or maybe an alcove with certain dimensions. Maybe you realize heating with wood isn’t your jam.

I have an insert too. You don’t have to install the surround of you like that stove look. It really is the correct choice for any fireplace with height lower than 28”.

 

[begreen]

It's a center of the home fireplace, no exterior walls, so that concern can be taken away.

But what does taking off the legs of the tn20 do for the UL listing?

The UL testing is for a combustible surface underneath. No doubt this would be an off-label use, but it will be sitting on a fireplace hearth which is rated for fire directly on it. This is assuming that the fireplace was built in accordance with the UBC and NFPA 211. The legs should be put back on when the stove is moved to the new location.

If one wants to be totally by the book, Buck makes stoves that can be used with the legs removed when put in a masonry fireplace.

 

[Flashback87]

All,

I really appreciate the insight and advice here. I'm steering sway from the TN20 and found a local place that does carry the Jotul f45.

I would have to order the short leg kit, but do you think this would be a better option for my fireplace? Or am I still reaching to make something fit that shouldn't?

Thanks again!

 

[begreen]

That's a good stove and heater. It is documented for use in a fireplace. Note that to use it later as a stove out of the fireplace, it will need the regular legs put back on.

 

[Flashback87]

Just to verify, the Jotul F45 will NOT apply for the tax credit because it's 71% hhv efficiency rating... right?

Thanks!

 

[EbS-P]

Just to verify, the Jotul F45 will NOT apply for the tax credit because it's 71% hhv efficiency rating... right?

Thanks!

Nope. Does not qualify. Read how to take it apart to clean it out after you sweep if you are top venting. It’s not simple

 

[Flashback87]

Hey Guys,

I was counting on the tax credit so the Jotul f45 is out.

I have found 3 options locally that are short enough to work, tax credit approved, and hoping some guidance can be provided.

Jotul f500 - a couple places have them but price varies a decent amount. Need to confirm price with lowest priced retailer but they were closed today. This is my my top choice but price may put it out of my reach.

Hearthstone castelton - seems decent but seems the soapstone is not great, more for looks.

Vermont Castings Encore- low height and good price but not seeing a lot of reviews since new ownership.

Can any insight be added on these options?

Thanks!

 

[EbS-P]

Hey Guys,

I was counting on the tax credit so the Jotul f45 is out.

I have found 3 options locally that are short enough to work, tax credit approved, and hoping some guidance can be provided.

Jotul f500 - a couple places have them but price varies a decent amount. Need to confirm price with lowest priced retailer but they were closed today. This is my my top choice but price may put it out of my reach.

Hearthstone castelton - seems decent but seems the soapstone is not great, more for looks.

Vermont Castings Encore- low height and good price but not seeing a lot of reviews since new ownership.

Can any insight be added on these options?

Thanks!

Ehh. Ehh. And Ehh. None would make my list. F500 v3 had issues and consensus is we are not sure if they have been resolved.

Your your statements about the other two are inline with my opinions. So…..

Choices are limited. As you have found out. If had to choose and had the $$$$ it I would roll the dice on the F500. Reluctantly. And the 1800i qualifies for the tax credit. DIY able. Shipped to your door installed with insulated liner for 2500$-26%. So for half the price of just the F500 and you have a reliable heater. That’s what I arrived at.

It stinks there are not better cast iron options. I’m mad at Jotul. They messed up and I don’t think they care. It probably was the right idea to downsize number if stoves but I wish they had a med/large reliable cast stove.

Tax credit spread out over the life of the stove isn’t much per year. Cost difference between the FA45 and F500 makes it less.

 

[begreen]

Jotul f500 - a couple places have them but price varies a decent amount. Need to confirm price with lowest priced retailer but they were closed today. This is my my top choice but price may put it out of my reach.

This is a larger and more radiant stove with a side-loading door that needs 16" clearance. The F45 is cast iron clad steel stove. There is a gap between the steel body and the cast iron that reduces the radiance and with that, the clearances. Look at the Pacific Energy T5 for the same design.

Hearthstone castelton - seems decent but seems the soapstone is not great, more for looks.

Is the stove for heating or visuals? If you want soapstone, also look at Woodstock stoves.

Vermont Castings Encore- low height and good price but not seeing a lot of reviews since new ownership.

If the goal is heating, don't buy solely for the looks. This is another radiant stove with some complex innards. It will be higher maintenance. There are many threads (and a whole forum now) on VC products.

Vermont Castings

This forum is for discussions and information regarding Vermont Castings

www.hearth.com

 

[Flashback87]

This is a larger and more radiant stove with a side-loading door that needs 16" clearance. The F45 is cast iron clad steel stove. There is a gap between the steel body and the cast iron that reduces the radiance and with that, the clearances. Look at the Pacific Energy T5 for the same design.

Is the stove for heating or visuals? If you want soapstone, also look at Woodstock stoves.

If the goal is heating, don't buy solely for the looks. This is another radiant stove with some complex innards. It will be higher maintenance. There are many threads (and a whole forum now) on VC products.

Vermont Castings

This forum is for discussions and information regarding Vermont Castings

www.hearth.com

Good info... thanks!

These 3 optione all under 27 inches so they'll fit in my fireplace.

The VC was intriguing because it seems to have good features at a decent price.

Actually don't really like the look of soapstone but again seems like it will put off good heat for the price.

The goal is primarily heating. I have cut and split a lot of wood over the last few years and I'm ready for it to just last longer for burns and get more heat out of it.

My install guy has a jotul 550 Rockford insert that was used for a couple years he can sell me at a decent price. I'm not super stoked about an insert because the blower seems pretty necessary, not as much heat output as a stove, longer burns then a open fireplace but not stoves, and you can't use it outside the fireplace. But, is this a good option?

I'm gonna check out the others u mentioned above too.

 

[begreen]

Another caveat with the VC stoves is that they are primarily top loaders. The TN20 still seems like a better fit. Put in a block-off plate and leave off the surround if the goal is to use the blower less.

 

[EbS-P]

Good info... thanks!

These 3 optione all under 27 inches so they'll fit in my fireplace.

The VC was intriguing because it seems to have good features at a decent price.

Actually don't really like the look of soapstone but again seems like it will put off good heat for the price.

The goal is primarily heating. I have cut and split a lot of wood over the last few years and I'm ready for it to just last longer for burns and get more heat out of it.

My install guy has a jotul 550 Rockford insert that was used for a couple years he can sell me at a decent price. I'm not super stoked about an insert because the blower seems pretty necessary, not as much heat output as a stove, longer burns then a open fireplace but not stoves, and you can't use it outside the fireplace. But, is this a good option?

I'm gonna check out the others u mentioned above too.

What’s the good price on the 550. My stove set what back in the fireplace needs a blower.

 

[Flashback87]

Another caveat with the VC stoves is that they are primarily top loaders. The TN20 still seems like a better fit. Put in a block-off plate and leave off the surround if the goal is to use the blower less.

Any thoughts on the jotul 550 Rockland insert?

Thanks!

What’s the good price on the 550. My stove set what back in the fireplace needs a blower.

He said $2,000 but don't know if that includes install too. If not, I'm going to ask for lower price.

 

[begreen]

The Rockland is a decent-performing medium-sized insert. It's well made and looks good. This is an E/W loader, unlike the TN20. It will need a block off plate to seal off the damper area to perform at its best. The blower will be needed for good heat output due to the flush nature of this insert but it's fairly quiet at low speed.

$2000 seems steep, I doubt that includes installation. If it's in good condition and not abused, then $1500 is the max I would pay.

 

[EbS-P]

Any thoughts on the jotul 550 Rockland insert?

Thanks!

He said $2,000 but don't know if that includes install too. If not, I'm going to ask for lower price.

But realize they don’t make them anymore and everything has gone up in price and winter is knocking. An extra 500$ To get exactly what I wanted might just be with it to me.