This week's bone-headed move

[Ashful]

This was going to be "my most bone-headed" move, but truly it isn't, it's just the latest. I seem to have them often enough, mostly due to constant distraction with other thoughts, that I suspect I can't be the only one.

After a pretty good snowstorm over the weekend, yesterday was warm and sunny, and the house was still holding 73 at bedtime. So, for the first time since October, I let the stove go cold overnight. Down to 70F inside this morning, I decided it was time for a re-light on a half load.

In goes one quarter of a SuperCedar and five medium-large splits of hickory. Light, and set timer for 10 minutes, which is usually about when I'd have to close the key damper 50%.

End of 10 minutes, flames are still small and lazy, chimney still not warm enough to need any key damper. A little slower than usual, but nothing entirely shocking for a warm and wet day. Set another 10 minute timer.

At 20 minutes, flames are still small and lazy, draft is just barely coming up to spec, no need to turn the key damper yet. Here's where I should've caught something was wrong, if I hadn't been distracted with work.

At 40 minutes, half the load is lit, but flames are still small and lazy. What the hell?

Finally, I break my brain away from my work enough to look things over, and find the air control was still turned down to the point used for ~16 hour burns. I had opened the bypass and key damper, but forgot the air control.

Not my worst offense as an operator, no real damage done, other than a lot more creo than usual going up the chimney. It's just this week's bone headed move.

 

[Todd]

Ha, been there done that.

 

[marty319]

Well my dumb moves were leaving the bypass open on my osburn 2300 with a full load and leaving for 4 hours .happened a couple of times.got rid of that stove.

 

[Corey]

Well, it can happen! A few days ago I posted grilling hamburgers for dinner in the "what's in your stove right now?" thread, and replied to some questions that I usually close most all air inlets so the burgers don't flare up while cooking.

A month or so ago, I was doing the same grilling trick... it was near zero outside, so if anyone was out and smelled that delicious 'meat on the grill' smell, they must have thought someone was crazy - or very hard core, but I was warm and toasty inside. Anyway, I digress....

So grilling was done, I removed the grate and reloaded with a stack of mulberry and hedge for the overnight burn. Got the flames going good with the door cracked just a bit then snapped everything closed for the overnight burn. Wake up the next morning and the house is much cooler than I expected. Go into the stove, glass is all sooted up and the inside is sooty too, not the usual white ash coating. CRAP! I forgot to open the air back up from the grilling, so the big load must have just smouldered through the night.

Guess we could take a page from the aerospace industry and instead of those "Remove Before Flight" streamers, maybe we could make some "Open/Close Before Burn" tags!

 

[kennyp2339]

I thought for sure this was going to be a tractor w/ hay trailer stuck in the yard with a full load of wood thread.

 

[Ashful]

I thought for sure this was going to be a tractor w/ hay trailer stuck in the yard with a full load of wood thread.

Given today's rain and the melt from last weekend's snow, there's potential for that.

 

[gthomas785]

I've done this more times than I'd care to admit. Spend an hour fiddling, cursing the wood that I thought was seasoned, wondering if my cap is plugged, running late for work, then oh yeah I should probably open the air that would help

 

[stoveliker]

Well, it can happen! A few days ago I posted grilling hamburgers for dinner in the "what's in your stove right now?" thread, and replied to some questions that I usually close most all air inlets so the burgers don't flare up while cooking.

A month or so ago, I was doing the same grilling trick... it was near zero outside, so if anyone was out and smelled that delicious 'meat on the grill' smell, they must have thought someone was crazy - or very hard core, but I was warm and toasty inside. Anyway, I digress....

So grilling was done, I removed the grate and reloaded with a stack of mulberry and hedge for the overnight burn. Got the flames going good with the door cracked just a bit then snapped everything closed for the overnight burn. Wake up the next morning and the house is much cooler than I expected. Go into the stove, glass is all sooted up and the inside is sooty too, not the usual white ash coating. CRAP! I forgot to open the air back up from the grilling, so the big load must have just smouldered through the night.

Guess we could take a page from the aerospace industry and instead of those "Remove Before Flight" streamers, maybe we could make some "Open/Close Before Burn" tags!

Lock out tag out labels...

I stuff a cloth in my air intake when the stove is cold as I sometimes have a stack of cold air leading to a stink (from the creo in the box) coming out of the hole in the flapper.

I need such a LOTO label on my door or I forget to take out the cloth when I fire up...

 

[SpaceBus]

Sometimes I forget to open the bypass damper on my cookstove, which can cause the whole thing to fill with smoke, which eventually then cools and causes the fire to draft back into the house.

 

[xman23]

Sounds like to many controls and forgetting what they all do. Luckily all I have is a side door and front slider primary air control. Cold starts requires the most finesse. It's a lot of perfect moves that I've perfected.

Sitting here with a fire going at 48 and real damp outside. Thinking I pay very little attention to the stove. Never check the stove temperature, add wood to keep the house just right.

 

[Ashful]

Sounds like to many controls and forgetting what they all do.

Not usually. I run about 500 loads per year thru this pair of stoves, and I forget one control or another maybe 5 times per year. I'd love if I never forgot anything, but I can live with 1% error.

The thing is, at least for me, they all seem to come at once when the warm weather hits in spring. I guess I'm more diligent in the fall, and all winter is like robotic routine, but that routine sees some interruptions in spring.

 

[Rearscreen]

For those of you who don't have a Progress, I can't tell you how many bone-headed times I have not disengaged the cat before loading
because of their bone-headed design.

 

[fire_man]

For those of you who don't have a Progress, I can't tell you how many bone-headed times I have not disengaged the cat before loading
because of their bone-headed design.

Yup same here and I kick myself every time I forget to disengage. I can hardly read the "Bypass Open/Bypass Closed" marking on mine and keep meaning to mark it better.

On the original Progress design the bypass lever was a "Push/Pull" rod. It was giving them problems during the testing phase. It bound up tight when it got hot so they changed it to the current "rotating" lever.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

This was going to be "my most bone-headed" move, but truly it isn't, it's just the latest. I seem to have them often enough, mostly due to constant distraction with other thoughts, that I suspect I can't be the only one.

After a pretty good snowstorm over the weekend, yesterday was warm and sunny, and the house was still holding 73 at bedtime. So, for the first time since October, I let the stove go cold overnight. Down to 70F inside this morning, I decided it was time for a re-light on a half load.

In goes one quarter of a SuperCedar and five medium-large splits of hickory. Light, and set timer for 10 minutes, which is usually about when I'd have to close the key damper 50%.

End of 10 minutes, flames are still small and lazy, chimney still not warm enough to need any key damper. A little slower than usual, but nothing entirely shocking for a warm and wet day. Set another 10 minute timer.

At 20 minutes, flames are still small and lazy, draft is just barely coming up to spec, no need to turn the key damper yet. Here's where I should've caught something was wrong, if I hadn't been distracted with work.

At 40 minutes, half the load is lit, but flames are still small and lazy. What the hell?

Finally, I break my brain away from my work enough to look things over, and find the air control was still turned down to the point used for ~16 hour burns. I had opened the bypass and key damper, but forgot the air control.

Not my worst offense as an operator, no real damage done, other than a lot more creo than usual going up the chimney. It's just this week's bone headed move.

We can 100 percent gaurantee that you did not over fire your stove with this relighting performance.

 

[Dix]

Guilty, here as well.

My first thoughts are usually " great, potential chimney build up, f#@&! "

 

[fire_man]

I worry more about screwing up the cat but fortunately on the Progress there is a long flame path from the firebox to the cat.

 

[Ashful]

I worry more about screwing up the cat but fortunately on the Progress there is a long flame path from the firebox to the cat.

I manage the "forgot to open bypass" move about twice each year, and I'm on year 4 with the current cats. It appears to me that anything left on them from this error will fully burn off the next time you get it glowing, but I haven't committed that particular offense frequently enough to be a true authority on it. Thankfully, the BK 30's have a huge 10" lever with a 20" throw between open and closed, on that bypass damper. You have to be a special kind of oblivious to not notice it's out of phase.

 

[stoveliker]

Lol. I do think I'll at some point be that special kind of oblivious

 

[fire_man]

It's flame impingement I worry about. From what I read about cat's, its not a good thing.

 

[Ashful]

It's flame impingement I worry about. From what I read about cat's, its not a good thing.

Yep, the concern with regard to that was that flame impingement can exceed the temperature at which the coating begins to peel away from the substrate. Yet, twice a day I see a fireball hovering all around my combustor for five minutes, after turning the stove down from 20 minutes on high to it's overnight (or 24 hour) setting, and I'm still seeming to get longer than advertised life out of my combustors. So, whatever damage it may be causing must not be acute, at least in a BK 30 box with the new V3 cat.

Ironically, as crappy as the stove was, the Jotul Firelight 12 manual probably has the best write-up on how to inspect your combustor and debug what's happening to it. I suppose they needed that level of detail in their manual, since those stoves literally ate combustors. See page 17, in this copy:

https://fireplaces-rochester-ny.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Jotul_12_Firelight_0910.pdf

mods: You may want to grab a copy of this manual and host it somewhere on heart.com, before it disappears. Who knows how long the various hosts of it will continue hosting this very old manual for a discontinued product?

 

[fire_man]

That is a really good description of cat failure modes.

The Stainless Steel versions at least dont have the cracking issue but clogging and flame impingement would still be a problem.

 

[Ashful]

That is a really good description of cat failure modes.

The Stainless Steel versions at least dont have the cracking issue but clogging and flame impingement would still be a problem.

Maybe, but I’m starting to disbelieve the marketing hype, on these steelcats. I’ve owned five cat stoves, although that’s only three of one model and two of another. All but one of them had more issues with steelcats than ceramic. In my experience, the supposed issues with ceramic cats are rare and over-sold by anyone marketing steel cats.

I’ve had steel cats clog (endlessly), warp (crappy diesel foil), and go ultra-nuclear, in installations that always did just fine on ceramic cats. There may be other installations where the steelcats are actually preferable, but none of them seem to be in my house. Other than theoretical fracture due to thermal shock, something that seems to be talked about much more than actually seen, I think it’s hard to even imagine anything made of steel outperforming ceramic at temperatures approaching 2000F.

 

[fire_man]

I've owned three cat stoves and have had mixed performance.

My Fireview only ran ceramics and I had constant crumbling/cracking/short life problems. The wood was very well seasoned.
The Palladian has had the same SS cat since 2015 and it still works perfectly but that stove gets less use, maybe 40 burns per year.
Th Progress is on like the 5th or 6th SS cat since 2012. They have had problems with warping/clogging/early death. The last two seem to be performing better/longer and WS told me they have been working with the supplier to optimize the washcoat.

Summing it up, it seems to be stove and setup dependent, at least in my case.

 

[Highbeam]

It’s also maintenance dependent. Rather than wet wood, consider a leaky door gasket shooting cold room air at a hot cat.

Some poorly designed cat stoves do not protect the cat from damage caused by excessive flame impingement or thermal shock in addition to just regular thermal management.

I prefer ceramic after seeing no advantage to the more costly steel cats.

 

[fire_man]

What I like about the SS cat is there is zero risk of thermal shock. My Ceramic cats always died early due to cracked substrate. I had really dry wood and kept up with the door gasket.