My specific question was "What sort of proportions should someone seek when mixing a grass and a legume to make a complete dietary protein?" She literally rolled her eyes at me. She let me know 'some people' do try to mix peanut butter with whole wheat bread to get to a complete protein, and they should be mixed in approximately equal parts (we didn't discuss weight versus volume), but really it is perfectly fine to have peperoni pizza with a salad to get both a complete protein and some vegetables. The song 'Low Budget' by the Kinks started playing in my brain during this interaction, and I may have missed some nuance in the moment while I was transported back to 1979.
Evidently rice and beans isn't a thing anymore. I was just speechless, and as of that moment I am fine with the USDA continuing to promote USA agriculture, but I personally think nutritional guidance should be handed over to NIH yesterday. I cannot think of a good reason to consider any amount of peperoni "nutritionally fine." My take is she (the new RD) is a product of her education and is very likely to adjust her point of view with years and decades of clinical experience. I am talking about a bright young lady with good observational skills.
You and I have been walking a similar path!
In my (ongoing) deep dive on nutrition, I have developed a 'taxonomy' of veganism. More or less, all vegans under 30 are 'ethical vegans', doing so for the animals. Like other 30 year olds, they figure they are immortal, and are not worried about health at all, and are generally 'junk food vegans' from a dietary point of view. Vegans over 50 are generally 'health vegans', eating that way for their health. The older one are much less numerous, and less vocal on social, than the younger sort. Restaurants all cater to the younger ones, and load most of their vegan foods with saturated fat and salt, like any restaurant does.
There are MANY more vegan sub-types: raw food vegans, fruit only vegans, WFPB no-oil vegans, etc.
I am drifting towards a small community I call 'high protein vegans'. And thus, your question.
The scientific consensus has evolved since we were in school
@Poindexter. I was taught (in the 1980s) that we need to worry a LOT about getting enough protein, and that we needed to get COMPLETE protein, and needed to do so in every single meal. Like, I can't have rice for breakfast and beans for supper, bc I will die of some amino deficiency.
In the 2020s, most WFPB health-type vegans will say the opposite... don't worry about it! Any varied (**whole** cereals and legumes) plant based diet that is calorically sufficient will ALSO be protein sufficient, automagically. They argue that meat eaters (or 'omnis') have all fetishized protein, having been brainwashed by the 'Big Meat' for generations.
What about all the 'puny vegans' and 'ex vegans' out there that many of us have encountered? That went vegan, looked like carp 6 mos later, and eventually quit. The 'popular consensus' is that they don't/didn't get enough protein. The WFPB guys say 'well, they were probably just eating vegan junk, or fruit only, or raw vegan diets, none of which are protein sufficient.'
To me, this is THE major question/qualm that most omni's have about 'going plant based'...
will I get enough protein??
And I think that the WFPB gurus have over-compensated. They are correct that a perfect whole cereal and legume diet, consistently applied, is probably protein sufficient for folks with low to average protein needs. But if you need more protein than average, due to your genetics, being under 25 or over 50, being athletic, being pregnant or lactating, etc. OR you are imperfect, not planning every vegan meal super carefully, then you are probably scraping by on protein or insufficient, and would feel much better and be much healthier if you got some more!
The latest science says that we DO need more protein when we are growing or athletic (for muscle gains) or when we are older (and have progressively poorer protein absorption and utilization). Same for pregnant and lactating folks, duh. Also, we DO need to get all 9 essential amino acids. Our bodies don't store amino acids in significant amounts (unlike carbs and fats), it burns up the excess as calories. So you should make sure to get amino acid balance every day, or if you have very high protein demands (like being a body builder) spread out over the day.
Of plant sources, soy and pea protein are both deemed 'complete' by the WHO. I suspect all legumes are close too. They are enough by themselves. Whole cereals are NOT complete, but are complementary to soy and pea, so adding in some whole grains is good... but the legumes are doing the heavy lifting.
So, make sure you get enough legumes (or soy/pea based mock meats) every day. Your whole cereals in addition will help, but only help. A whole cereal based vegan diet or worse a refined cereal based vegan diet is a recipe for protein insufficiency.
FYI, the aminos that legumes have and whole grains do not are leucine and similar. And those are the anabolic (muscle growing) aminos. So a legume insufficient vegan diet WILL be catabolic and make you puny and skinny. The aminos that whole cereals have that legumes lack are not anabolic, and probably less of a visible health problem.
In my case, after 4 mos vegan/WFPB, I did get a little skinnier (not good) and started to feel kinda 'blah'.
So I upped my protein.... I switched the milk for my cereal from oat to unsweetened soy (9g protein /cup), and added a serving of (pea-based) vegan protein powder (15 g), mixed in soy milk, to my morning routine. This added about +30g complete protein to my day, in a very absorbable form, in the morning (which spreads out my protein, since I have legumes and mock meats in my other meals), while only being about +150 kcals.
I felt MUCH better in a few days, and since. And I have been seeing more positive results from resistance training (more anabolic), and gained a few good pounds back in the last month.
High protein vegan is where its at. For me.
