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Vermont Castings Encore 2 in 1 ?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by emt1581, Dec 24, 2010.

  1. redhat

    redhat Member

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    +1.

    If this is possible, it would be great if VC would come out with some sort of conversion kit to convert from Everburn to the new 2N1 technology. I think it would be a big seller.

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  2. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    It would be a huge seller, but it would also really cut into their new sales.
  3. emt1581

    emt1581 Minister of Fire

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    Holy freaking hell!!! I turn my back for a few months and this thread turns into 6 pages!!!!!

    Well I have mine installed and LOVE it and I don't even have the cat in place yet (but that is more out of concern for my wood being too wet).

    I'd say feel free to ask questions but it seems they have all been covered already!

    -Emt1581
  4. Diabel

    Diabel Minister of Fire

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    I am just wondering if you feel your wood is too wet...how do you achieve secondary combustion? With my relatively new (sold) NC encore there would be no way to obtain secondaries with sub-par wood...

    Are you looking at the chimney..is there any smoke visible?

    I remember many post from members that owned the encore NC and issues with the everburn not engaging....mainly due to wet wood

    Just wondering
  5. emt1581

    emt1581 Minister of Fire

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    No no, this is just as a precaution because the wood is just not as dry and I'm used to. The fire burns just fine and super hot. In fact I need a thermometer to make sure I'm not getting the stove too hot. Again, better safe than sorry.
  6. VCBurner

    VCBurner Minister of Fire

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    What kind of wood are you burning?
  7. Diabel

    Diabel Minister of Fire

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    I understand your point, but are you getting the smoke to burn in the secondary chamber? Go look at your chimney.
  8. emt1581

    emt1581 Minister of Fire

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    Mostly Ash and Oak

    -Emt1581
  9. emt1581

    emt1581 Minister of Fire

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    I did it this morning. No smoke.

    -Emt1581
  10. Diabel

    Diabel Minister of Fire

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    BINGO!!! Then you ave achieved the epic burn!

    VC is back in full force....watch out Woodstock :)
  11. emt1581

    emt1581 Minister of Fire

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    I don't know that I would go that far after having the thing for only 2-3 days now but yeah, wasn't hard to figure out and get it to start pumping out massive amounts of heat.

    I just need a thermometer or two, the $12 humidifying pot from Lowes, and a cast iron pan or two for dinner.

    Now is it ok to put the humidifying pot on the enamel or does it have to go on the cook top? I only ask because it's a pain in the butt to do things every few hours and taking a water pot off the cook top is just another step.

    Also as for being able to fry/boil....is there anyone who sells a cooktop with a cutout for a pot so the flames touch the bottom of the pot??

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
  12. dingle bay

    dingle bay New Member

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    Great site! We've been researching the Vermont Castings Defiant 2n1 wood stove. Does anyone have any updates on their Defiant? Looks great but we usually shy away from first year products.
  13. VCBurner

    VCBurner Minister of Fire

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    I only ask because when I burn some lighter, softer woods my burns are shorter and less intense than say, a full load of oak. Personally, I have burned very little amounts of ash mixed in with other stuff, mostly oak, maple an cherry, So I couldn't personally speak for it. But, my father'n'law says that it tends to be a quick burner. But you should still be getting more than 3-4 hours I would think. Right? Maybe you can get a couple of bags of bio bricks or something comparable to test out the burn lengths. I found this to be helpful in determining if I needed to replace my cat. Good luck.
  14. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    Chris did you get your cat yet and if so have installed it? I would like to hear what you think about it..

    Ray
  15. VCBurner

    VCBurner Minister of Fire

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    No, not yet, I cannot wait to get it in the stove too!! The new one is going to make a world of difference if my experience is as good as yours!
    I'm certain it will be. The delivery date was supposed to be from the 11th to the 18th. I will message the seller reguarding the shipping. I still can't find any confirmation. I have had the craziest work week. We are doing snow removal on commercial roofs in Framingham. Two weeks of six 10's and an 8 on Sunday. I'll take it while I can. But it doesn't leave a lot of time (and energy) to be spent after work. I'll keep you posted for sure, though!

    Chris
  16. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    Wow Chris those are some serious hours! Considering that you're a union carpenter and it is winter you're fortunate to be working at all this time of year.. Hang in there and maybe buy yourself a new toy with a little of that extra dough you're making..

    Ray
  17. emt1581

    emt1581 Minister of Fire

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    Ok, after a few days of burning I have some observations and questions...

    First off, this thing is wonderful! It heats the entire home without a problem. The upstairs is about 8-10 degrees cooler from the downstairs. I really should get a thermometer for the wall so I know what the rm. air is at heat-wise.

    I noticed that when lifting the cook top to put wood in, the little nubs that stick out on the sides near the cook top's "hinges"/connection point are blackened. Could the enamel have been burned off already? Does that mean I hurt the stove?

    I found that by closing the stove-pipe damper to 45deg. instead of open all the way as long as turning the airflow all the way down and closing the damper, I get significantly longer burn time. The cook top is registering at 400-450 the whole time. The pipe is registering at 150-200.

    When I open it up and let it get fired up for 30-60 min, it goes to around 600-650.

    The shiny stainless cap on the chimney seems like it's slightly blackened underneath.

    I think that's all for now...

    But please share your thoughts on what I'm seeing.

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
  18. VCBurner

    VCBurner Minister of Fire

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    Hello Emt. Glad to hear the stove is still going strong. I'm a nubie with EPA stoves, with only one years experience burning one. This is now my third year of wood heating. Most of what I know came from endless hours of reading and posting here on this site. I believe that most things I've read, state flue temps below 275 are an invitation for creosote formation in your chimney and pipe connectors. Also, a pipe damper should not be necessary with a stove such as this one. I've heard of others having pipe dampers in their connectors (with EPA stoves,) only when they have a problem with runaway draft, or sometimes as a precaution shut off valve in case of a chimney fire. You should be able to control the temps and burn time with the stove's controls alone. It is interesting to hear your experiences. I hope I can learn from them as much as I have learned from others on this site. I also hope to be able to help others in their wood heating endeavours.
  19. emt1581

    emt1581 Minister of Fire

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    But my stove pipe is double or tripple walled...so I'm wondering what the true temperature is and if I'm invitine creosote or not?

    Thanks!

    -Emt1581
  20. VCBurner

    VCBurner Minister of Fire

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    My pleasure! So you have a magnetic thermometer on an insulated pipe? There are probe thermometers that can be inserted into a small drilled whole into your pipe. They will give you a more true idea of what goes on inside the pipe. If the stovetop is at 400-450, I'd be willing to bet the flue temps are higher than your magnetic thermometer is showing. BTW, you should be able to push the stove up beyond those griddle temps, like up into the 700's. You are just not supposed to burn it at 750 for extended periods of time. At least this is what most VC manuals state (I have noot checked out the 2n1 manuals.)

    Chris
  21. NinoVitale

    NinoVitale New Member

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    I would not use griddle temps, as the last few posts are doing. I would take my temps off the cast iron, just behind the griddle. Also, the stove is not meant to be run with the damper in a partial position. I can't see a way to get longer burn times by having the damper in a partial position. You would not get an effective burn in chamber 2 or the CAT because the air will go the path of least resistance, not back through the burn chambers. With my 4 years of burning VC CAT stoves, burn time is more of a function of the type of wood you use beyond all other measures. You want to burn for 12 hours, put some osage orange in there. But if you want a fast flame, use ash or popular. I burn a lot of black walnut and oak because that's what I have in my forest, along with some cherry. The cherry doesn't do as well but I use it more for starter wood. I believe if you read the book, VC does not recommend running the damper in a partial position, nor would this give you the efficiency unless I'm missing something. The best procedure seems to be put your thermometer on the iron, not the griddle. get to 450 and stay there or above for 10-20 minutes, then close the damper. Gotta get that 470-520 pounds of iron hot to heat anything. The griddle is nothing more than an easier way to stack the wood to the top. I would not use it for stove temp, it's a thin piece of metal not connected to the iron in any way. It's an access door. The stove is designed to heat by the cast iron.
  22. VCBurner

    VCBurner Minister of Fire

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    Nino,

    What kind of difference in temperature does one get from griddle to the area where you put your thermometer? The griddle always gets hot faster right? Doesn't VC recommend measuring temps from there? I read all your posts, just can't remmember what the reasoning is behind it. The griddle gets hot too fast so that temp is not a good sign the stove is ready to go into secondary mode? I will be getting a used Defiant Encore #2190 in a few days, maybe this technique will come in handy. Another question, as a scientific burner, do you ever think about having an overfire alarm? I've seen some of these homemade devices but as far as I know there's nothing on the market that does this. Thanks,

    Chris
  23. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    It can be over a 200 degree difference with the Vigilant and Intrepid. I can't speak for the new Encore, but the griddle is the recommended spot for the Intrepid.
  24. NinoVitale

    NinoVitale New Member

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    page 23 of the new Encore 2in1 says take temps in the center of the griddle so I will agree, that's what they say, but think about this, you need a hot flew to draw air and a hot stove to keep the fire going and heat your home. I can get the griddle to 400 in about 5 minutes if I build my fire direct center and flames are hitting the gridle. The stove temps are still around 200 and no heat is coming into the room. The CAT chamber is probably colder than that. I would never close my stove with an iron temp of 200. You just have no heat momentum. I've talked to a few dealers who have told me this so it's not my thinking but theirs. They don't agree with the page 23 reco. I tried it both ways and the stove would take forever to put out heat. Instead, I get a good, large fire going in the box. This ensures the iron gets hot and the flew gets hot. Once I get 400 plus just behind the griddle, that's when I close the damper. Why? A few reasons. 1 - the flew is good and hot and when you close the damper, it will draw the air through the secondary and threw the CAT better without a flame out. 2 - The CAT will really only work at 1000 plus degrees so if you don't have all the iron around it hot, the CAT chamber may likely be too cool to actually work. I have proven this out with a temp probe. If I go by griddle temps. I see CAT probe temps well below 500. The CAT won't work at that temp. 3 - to generate heat, I need the iron at 400-600, not the griddle. The iron is what heats the house. closing up the stove to early stiffles the heat build up and then increase significantly, the amount of time to get the entire cast iron up to these temps. My goal is to get heat. To get heat, I need the 470 pounds of iron at 400 plus. The griddle temp is irrelevant to generating heat. I've had probes all over, one on the griddle, another on the iron behind the griddle, another in the CAT chamber, another in the flew drilled threw, all at the same time. If you close this stove up before it's time, it will take forever to get the iron to 450-550 where it really puts out the heat. The Intrepid is another story. That stove is a casual stove with very little iron. You don't need a lot to heat it up. The Encore and Defiant with over 470 pounds of iron v. 220 in the Intrepid, take time. I ask this, what's the goal. Mine is to heat so I need that entire stove at 450 plus as quickly as possible, then I close it up, get 1100 in CAT and it burns forever on 6-8 logs with the air all the way closed. My goal is always have the iron at around 500, air full closed, damper closed. This gives the most efficient burn with the most heat. I see griddle temps of 750-900 before I close the damper but the iron itself is still around 400. The iron is the stove temp, not the griddle. If you don't believe me, start a cold stove, get the griddle to 450 and you can put your hand on the stove on the sides, bottom and even the top. The iron won't be hot. Takes time to penetrate and get the iron hot so it radiates heat all around.
  25. -PB-

    -PB- New Member

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    interesting... that being said, on a cold start, or reload for that matter, shouldn't you always build a hot fire in the back of the stove, closest to the combustion chamber, to get that area the hottest first? Once you achieve secondary combustion the temps of the rest of the stove area will catch up to the back????

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