Vermont Castings Stoves

[Fire Bug]

Hi,
Wasn't Vermont Castings the company that went out of buisness a couple of years ago, only to be taken over by another company but keep the same name.
Did they have cracking problems with their stove bodies?
How good are their woodstove and gas stoves now?
Maybe I am thinking of another company and I am wrong with the above info.
Thanks,
Fire Bug

 

[elkimmeg]

Hi,
Wasn't Vermont Castings the company that went out of buisness a couple of years ago, only to be taken over by another company but keep the same name.
Did they have cracking problems with their stove bodies?
How good are their woodstove and gas stoves now?
Maybe I am thinking of another company and I am wrong with the above info.
Thanks,
Fire Bug

Vermont Castings was bought out twoce early 90 by majestic mid 90 majestic bought out by CFM All the while the Vermont Plant has remained open and opperational

ITs not the stove bodies that cracked but the interior heat plates. R&D addressed this issue and removed the heat plates for cerefractory cement packages that solved the plate cracking issue.

My oppinion is bais here, I own and opperate 2 VC stoves I support American manufacturing and manufacturing jobs One of my stoves is 20 years old and still has yet to crack the other one is 8 years old and running strong. I think part of the issue is when you make 50,000 stoves a year Some slip by quality control In Dec I did a plant tour and came away ompressed with the entire process including the quality and mworkmanship. I poster a video of the tour here and did the followup post where Goose and I reflected

It seems that not all 50,000 stoves are bad we only here of the loudest complainers. More often than not when the truth comes out ITs not the stove or the manufacturer but user, poor drat of faulty installations and for no heat some homes have no insulation and 3 mileIsland nuke plant menting down couldn't heat there homes.


Look at it satictically if 0.25% are not up to QC then thaT's 625 stoves If harman manufactures 5000 wood stoves what is the chance using the same percentage you will hear about the one or 2 with qc issues 625 vs 1.25 Naturally you will hear more complaints from the larger manufacturer. I think all things must be weighed and put in proper perspective and not let a vey loud complainer tarnis the entire busshel. Let's not loose site that 49,375 happy stove owner are sitting home enjoying the heat. They have no reason to venture onto Hearth.com to voice negativity

 

[webbie]

Many companies in the stove business (in fact, most of them) have gone through changes in ownership - often numerous times. Vermont Castings started out as a dream run by a bunch of hippies in Randolph. After a while it turned out that it needed adult supervision.....but some of the adults were even worse!

But, the company never shut down or went out of business for even a single day.

As far as cracking problems - no, nothing in particular. They had problems with Defiants in 1979, but to their credit...they were about the only company that ADMITTED IT (of course, the VT attorney general helped with that)......they took care of the problems. They also had some problems with an early EPA stove, the first Acclaims. But, again, they took care of it - often WAY out of warranty. J

Just as Toyota just had a recall, VC - being the largest US cast manufacturer, has had some problems with certain stoves. This is unavoidable, and is the same for every company. They can test a stove over and over, but until 10,000 people abuse the thing in the field, some problems do not surface.

Bottom line.... I have owned VC stoves and loved them. Elk, who is a building official with incredible knowledge of stoves, owns two of them. Many other forum members own them.

 

[seaken]

Hi,
Wasn't Vermont Castings the company that went out of buisness a couple of years ago, only to be taken over by another company but keep the same name.
Did they have cracking problems with their stove bodies?
How good are their woodstove and gas stoves now?
Maybe I am thinking of another company and I am wrong with the above info.
Thanks,
Fire Bug

elk and Craig responded eloquently and correctly. I believe the VC brnad to be among the best available. I am also biased, being a long-time VC dealer. But our customer records back us up. By far, most VC customers are very happy. We have a small number of VC customers who were not happy. Thier record is better than many other brands we have tried over the years. They are among the best.

Currently, I rate their product categories like this:

Wood Stoves = very good to best
Gas Stoves = good to better

 

[elkimmeg]

Add this to the mix that other quality stove manufacturers you hold in high esteme well guess what their parts are cast in the same Vermont casting plant using the same material same machines and same iron processed by the same workers. for years Vermont Casting has been doing the enamaling for these other manufactures. And it is not limited to wood stoves but to cast parts found in pellet stoves and enamaling. Did you know Vermont castings holds the pattern right to bottom feeding pellet stoves. The same patterns being used by the top pellet stove manufacturer. In the mid 90 VC made bottom feed pelletstoves some of the best of the time. throught contractual arrangements they no longer make pellet stoves but are now the contracttor to the manufacture of bottom feed pellet stoves. Next time you see a cast iron skillet in those specialty pots and pan stores I viewed during my tour the brand name cast Iron pans being cast and processed.


Vermont casting furnaces can not be shut down and fired right back up, they are being worked around the clock, 3 shifts a day The opperation provides 360 manufacturing jobs for
American workers. Oh! ,the also cast other things too. Many of their former workers have taken jobs for other manufactures. There is a lot of Vermont Castings history and thinking, exhibited in many other manufactures stoves. I try not to get into which stove is best. I know at times I do and only can draw from my experiences. I also know what works for may not wok for others.

I have quite a few silent chuckles when brand xxxxc is considered better than, its competition in Vermont, knowing it is being built there. In the mid 80 there were over 550 stove manufactures selling stoves in North America. Today ther are 18 and of those 18 many have direct contact and their beginings tied to Vermont Castings

 

[thechimneysweep]

The one thing that bothers me about VC stoves is their warranty. Maybe I'm spoiled, as our two biggest lines, Hearthstone and Pacific Energy, both offer lifetime warrantees. In comparison, VC's three-year warranty on cast iron components just doesn't seem like adequate protection for the consumer. Even the limited lifetime warranty VC offers on their gas stoves only covers the cast iron components for three years. As I recall, back in the day VC had a lifetime warranty on their cast iron components, but that has changed. Makes me a little leery of the current VC product line.

 

[elkimmeg]

If this is an unfair question then don't respond.. Does it bother you your castings are outsourced to the pacific basin. and that your selling products elimated American manufacturing jobs.

I know you are going to tell some jobs are still here possibly essembly and shipping. But what about the former factor worker here that used to have a job?

ITs ok to take manufacturing off shore so that it can be done cheaper without the polution compliance required here. We will support China to scortch our earth.

Isn't part of outsourcing also benificial to manufactures to hire cheap labor with few safety regulations slang name sweat shop labor. Do you support all this?

Or should we all stick our head in the sand and ignore it because we spend less money. Wal mart comes to mind?

Does it bother you what computer you are typing on it only has a one year warrranty and some only 90 days? that' right Hp 90 days on many of there products especially printers.

Have you examined how courts view life time warranties?

Have you had a faulty part and had to wait 4 months for the next shipment from China? Say a shipment does not quite measure up to the standard what do your think happens?
the cast iron parts are still used picked over because the reorder take 4 months. Dealers have orders to make up the less than good castings end up in your store.
What happens with VC the part gets discarded melted down and recast I know I was there and saw the process. Just maybe why they do not have to offer extended warranties because
they are not forced to use less than the best parts. Are the warrranties you want, a coverup for less than good parts use?

 

[begreen]

I like VC stoves, but Tom has a good point. Given the failures of parts in the past decade, VC could use a longer warranty to boost user and dealer confidence. This strategy worked well for Hyundai. They had a rotten reputation with their early cars. Retooled, redesigned and dramatically improved their quality. Then they backed it up with a 10 yr/100000 mile warranty. That got the industry's and buyer's attention. It worked.

 

[elkimmeg]

CENTURY WOOD STOVES
WARRANTY GUIDELINES
10YEARWARRANTYCOVERAGE


Everburn Limited Lifetime Warranty

LIMITED LIFETIME Warranty
For Dutchwest Non-Catalytic Wood Stoves

 

[BrotherBart]

When did they change the Century warranty Elk? The current online manuals say:

CENTURY WOOD STOVES
WARRANTY GUIDELINES
5 YEAR WARRANTY COVERAGE

Terms and Conditions:

Inclusions:
Coverage for five years from the date of sale to the original owner only
providing there is proof of purchase and coverage is against
‘manufacturing defects’

The Ceramic Glass is covered for Thermal breakage only, for a period of
five years

Electrical components such as blower fans, and fan speed controls are
covered for one year

Exclusions:
Brass and/or Gold Plated parts are excluded from coverage

The warranty does not cover the paint finish, gaskets, firebrick components,
removable firebox components, (brick retainers stainless steel air tubes)

 

[elkimmeg]

Bb I entered Vermont castings in my web browser and wen to stoves warranties then cut and pasted exactly here. the donor centry manuals also say 5 year warranty I not making it up

 

[BrotherBart]

Bb I entered Vermont castings in my web browser and wen to stoves warranties then cut and pasted exactly here. the donor centry manuals also say 5 year warranty I not making it up

I know you aren't making it up Elk. Never crossed my mind. I was just curious if they had made the warranty longer.

I think that not warrantying the burn tubes for any time at all is a screw job. ESW does a year on them.

 

[Gunner]

If this is an unfair question then don't respond.. Does it bother you your castings are outsourced to the pacific basin. and that your selling products elimated American manufacturing jobs.

I know you are going to tell some jobs are still here possibly essembly and shipping. But what about the former factor worker here that used to have a job?

ITs ok to take manufacturing off shore so that it can be done cheaper without the polution compliance required here. We will support China to scortch our earth.

Isn't part of outsourcing also benificial to manufactures to hire cheap labor with few safety regulations slang name sweat shop labor. Do you support all this?

Or should we all stick our head in the sand and ignore it because we spend less money. Wal mart comes to mind?

Does it bother you what computer you are typing on it only has a one year warrranty and some only 90 days? that' right Hp 90 days on many of there products especially printers.

Have you examined how courts view life time warranties?

Have you had a faulty part and had to wait 4 months for the next shipment from China? Say a shipment does not quite measure up to the standard what do your think happens?
the cast iron parts are still used picked over because the reorder take 4 months. Dealers have orders to make up the less than good castings end up in your store.
What happens with VC the part gets discarded melted down and recast I know I was there and saw the process. Just maybe why they do not have to offer extended warranties because
they are not forced to use less than the best parts. Are the warrranties you want, a coverup for less than good parts use?

Don't know about Hearthstone but the PE's I believe are made entirely in Canada.

 

[begreen]

I went up to their website and found a bewildering array of warranties. Instead of one general warranty for the stove products, it could be 3, 5, 30 or lifetime warrantied. I was a bit surprised that some of their flagship products have the shortest warranties. The only flagship VC cast iron stove I saw with a lifetime warranty was the Encore NC. Others in the VC line all looked to be 3 yr.

 

[elkimmeg]

Gunner the talk is of cast iron not plate steel. Yes Pe is a plate steel stove. Any cast parts only come from 3 sources the pacific basin Europe and North america in VT

 

[Gunner]

Gunner the talk is of cast iron not plate steel. Yes Pe is a plate steel stove. Any cast parts only come from 3 sources the pacific basin Europe and North america in VT

I thought the talk was of lack of warranty not counrty of origin.

thechimneysweep gave his reason for being leary of VC, and sighted two mfg's with better warranties one of which being PE. You then started talking about country of origin... hence the correction on the PE's.

Yep, VC's are made in America, isn't that all the more reason why they shoukld have a BETTER warranty.

 

[BrotherBart]

I went up to their website and found a bewildering array of warranties. Instead of one general warranty for the stove products, it could be 3, 5, 30 or lifetime warrantied. I was a bit surprised that some of their flagship products have the shortest warranties. The only flagship VC cast iron stove I saw with a lifetime warranty was the Encore NC. Others in the VC line all looked to be 3 yr.

Myself I consider the warranties pretty much useless anyway. With this crap of "overfiring will void the warranty" three times on every page of the manuals but only saying "if it glows it is overfiring". They all just set it up to blame anything that screws up on the stove owner. I have only seen two manuals that gave temps. They were for steel stoves and one said 700 and the other 800. Since one of them is virtually an identical design to the 30-NC I go by it for thermo placement, and stay 600 and below anyway.

The manual for the Isle Royale that carpineils is firing the crap out of is the funniest. It says to use a stove top thermo but says nothing about what an overfire temp is.

 

[Gunner]

I don't see myself making a waranty claim 45yrs from now thats for sure. LOL

I think of my stove as a long term purchase...how am I going to be confident that it will last if the people that built it aren't.

 

[BrotherBart]

I don't see myself making a waranty claim 45yrs from now thats for sure. LOL

I think of my stove as a long term purchase...how am I going to be confident that it will last if the people that built it aren't.

45 years from now I will be 105. If I am still burning wood they can damn sure fix the stove.

 

[Gunner]

I don't see myself making a waranty claim 45yrs from now thats for sure. LOL

I think of my stove as a long term purchase...how am I going to be confident that it will last if the people that built it aren't.

45 years from now I will be 105. If I am still burning wood they can damn sure fix the stove.

:snake:

 

[webbie]

Speaking of lifetimes, Bro better get ready for about 50 years more.

The LAST Ma. veteran of WWI (yes, ONE) died last week. H

"Anthony Pierro, state's oldest WWI vet, dies at 110
Friday, February 09, 2007 - Updated: 10:09 PM EST

Anthony Pierro, age 110, of Swampscott, died Thursday in a local nursing home, after a brief illness. He was the husband of the late Mary (Pierre) Pierro, and the son of the late Rocco & Nunzia (Dell Aquilla) Pierro.

Born and raised in Forenza in the province of Potenza in Italy he moved to the United States in 1914. He lived in Marblehead and Swampscott most of his life. Educated in schools in Italy, he was a United States Army veteran of World War I, where he served in France with the 82nd Division A.E.F., 320 Field Artillery"


Now that's a long warranty!

 

[BrotherBart]

Speaking of lifetimes, Bro better get ready for about 50 years more.

The LAST Ma. veteran of WWI (yes, ONE) died last week. H

"Anthony Pierro, state's oldest WWI vet, dies at 110
Friday, February 09, 2007 - Updated: 10:09 PM EST

Anthony Pierro, age 110, of Swampscott, died Thursday in a local nursing home, after a brief illness. He was the husband of the late Mary (Pierre) Pierro, and the son of the late Rocco & Nunzia (Dell Aquilla) Pierro.

Born and raised in Forenza in the province of Potenza in Italy he moved to the United States in 1914. He lived in Marblehead and Swampscott most of his life. Educated in schools in Italy, he was a United States Army veteran of World War I, where he served in France with the 82nd Division A.E.F., 320 Field Artillery"


Now that's a long warranty!

My wife's grandmother moved into the Aged Mason's home when she was 78. Signed over her small house in a declining neighborhood and her monthly Social Security check. She died there at 103. Three meals a day cooked for her, nice apartment, monthly spending allowance and all of her medical (four operations) taken care of. Talk about getting your money's worth!