- Jul 27, 2007
- 11
Have bought Vogelzang Model BX26E ( NOT A UL Listed stove). Have heard ( ufter purchase)this brand is least quality wood stove. Looking for any suggestions to operate it safe, any notes, any warnings.
Thanks
Thanks
VOGELZANG ANY EXPERIENCE WELCOME
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Safest thing you can do is fill it with dirt and turn it into a planter.
Sorry to be harsh, but the best thing you can do is sell the stove asap.
Sorry to be harsh, but the best thing you can do is sell the stove asap.
hilly
Feeling the Heat
That stove cannot be permitted or installed in living space. It can be installed in an unattached shed. Without UL listing it is not tested for even basic safety.
Which should be a beacon not to trust your home or you family safety Every lamp has UL listed cords for safety purposes.
The last Volgelzang experience I had was to condem it after it caused a fire. According to the owner they just purchased it and this was their 3rd time burning that stove.
Naturally they did not permit the installation. They noticed a funny smell the first few firings, but thought it was normal breakin procedures.
The third time they got it going pretty good. So good, with no door gasketing, it developed a run away fire. First the connector pipe glowed red then the sides of the stove.
They shut down the inlet air, but that did not seem to abate the growing fire. The stove got brighter and brighter red. Fortunately it was located in a 3 season room.
From here Is some guess work. It got so hot the painted wood work behind the stove started to bubble and blister. Next thing happened it ignited as the paint caught fire it dripped flaming drops on the rug next the rug got going. they called the fire dept which responded is less that 15 minutes
When the fire dept arrived, the flames had involved the roof and melted the yinyl siding of that end of the home. More guess work, either the heat cracked the stove and took a chunk out of the left side or the fire dept hose spray hit the side and caused to to crack and a piece laid there on the burnt out rug.
When I arrived to investigate the incident there were many other reasons this stove installation failed. There was no floor protection at all. It was placed on the rug floor. It was about 14" to the wood window trim and combustible wall. Finally there chimney was comprised of single wall pipe all the way even thru the roof. Well this is one Volgelzang experience and I must say the end results were anything but welcome
These are cheaply cast stoves. No quality control no safety testing. You have to ask yourself it you are planning to install it in your home.
DO YOU FEEL LUCKY?
Which should be a beacon not to trust your home or you family safety Every lamp has UL listed cords for safety purposes.
The last Volgelzang experience I had was to condem it after it caused a fire. According to the owner they just purchased it and this was their 3rd time burning that stove.
Naturally they did not permit the installation. They noticed a funny smell the first few firings, but thought it was normal breakin procedures.
The third time they got it going pretty good. So good, with no door gasketing, it developed a run away fire. First the connector pipe glowed red then the sides of the stove.
They shut down the inlet air, but that did not seem to abate the growing fire. The stove got brighter and brighter red. Fortunately it was located in a 3 season room.
From here Is some guess work. It got so hot the painted wood work behind the stove started to bubble and blister. Next thing happened it ignited as the paint caught fire it dripped flaming drops on the rug next the rug got going. they called the fire dept which responded is less that 15 minutes
When the fire dept arrived, the flames had involved the roof and melted the yinyl siding of that end of the home. More guess work, either the heat cracked the stove and took a chunk out of the left side or the fire dept hose spray hit the side and caused to to crack and a piece laid there on the burnt out rug.
When I arrived to investigate the incident there were many other reasons this stove installation failed. There was no floor protection at all. It was placed on the rug floor. It was about 14" to the wood window trim and combustible wall. Finally there chimney was comprised of single wall pipe all the way even thru the roof. Well this is one Volgelzang experience and I must say the end results were anything but welcome
These are cheaply cast stoves. No quality control no safety testing. You have to ask yourself it you are planning to install it in your home.
DO YOU FEEL LUCKY?
- Jul 27, 2007
- 11
Well guys, I really appreciate for all your replies, suggestions and warnings. I do understand now that UL Listed item is more important thing than the lowest price for the stove. Probably I have no way to return that stove ( being purchased from ToolsHarbor.com) for the reason "UL not listed" though it was not mentioned in their catalog and on the web site.
Also I do understand that safety is number one point for the stove to buy.
But what really has stopped me to continue that project is my yesterday' honest conversation with ACE store manager. He said that outside chimney pipe MUST be Class A pipe that cost me at least $100.00 per 2 feet. THAT was the final verdict against my stupid idea to set up ANY wood stove into my Brooklyn's house.
Another point - for the voluntary discussion only - is the history of like that stoves usage in Russia and all former Soviet Union. There are many ( millions) families over there still use that type of stoves for the heat and cooking activity. In fact, soviet people have no idea what combustible walls means : all walls are made from solid stone or brick or just pure concrete( like my house first floor walls are). I'm not talking about these historical wood made constructions came from 18 Century that you cannot ignite even to use a gasoline because of their special outside wood treatment. Basically they have no idea what distances should be to the windows, to the roof, to the wall and etc., and etc. Same time fire department inspector doesn't exist in many locations as well as firefighter's services because of very long distance. Same time house fires in Russian rural areas ( where these stoves still exist) are VERY RARE. The major causes of such fires are not stopped cigarette in a bad after a couple liters of vodka.
So I can make some unproved corollaries regarding cheap stoves and cheap houses. They don’t go together. The cheap house construction materials cannot accept cheap stoves. And vice versa: than cheaper the building materials than costly the stove should be.
Vogelzang stove looks cheap and cost cheap. Their manual says nothing about outside installation only. The same time I think German brand Vogelzang can not produce a 100% useless stuff. I’ll call them directly this week and ask several questions.
Also I’ll set up that stove outside at my backyard , erect the pipe ( 10’) and test it with different verities of wood loading capacity, time of burning and etc. And report all the results here to share my experience with you guys – my new friendly community of wood fire lovers. OK ?
Also I do understand that safety is number one point for the stove to buy.
But what really has stopped me to continue that project is my yesterday' honest conversation with ACE store manager. He said that outside chimney pipe MUST be Class A pipe that cost me at least $100.00 per 2 feet. THAT was the final verdict against my stupid idea to set up ANY wood stove into my Brooklyn's house.
Another point - for the voluntary discussion only - is the history of like that stoves usage in Russia and all former Soviet Union. There are many ( millions) families over there still use that type of stoves for the heat and cooking activity. In fact, soviet people have no idea what combustible walls means : all walls are made from solid stone or brick or just pure concrete( like my house first floor walls are). I'm not talking about these historical wood made constructions came from 18 Century that you cannot ignite even to use a gasoline because of their special outside wood treatment. Basically they have no idea what distances should be to the windows, to the roof, to the wall and etc., and etc. Same time fire department inspector doesn't exist in many locations as well as firefighter's services because of very long distance. Same time house fires in Russian rural areas ( where these stoves still exist) are VERY RARE. The major causes of such fires are not stopped cigarette in a bad after a couple liters of vodka.
So I can make some unproved corollaries regarding cheap stoves and cheap houses. They don’t go together. The cheap house construction materials cannot accept cheap stoves. And vice versa: than cheaper the building materials than costly the stove should be.
Vogelzang stove looks cheap and cost cheap. Their manual says nothing about outside installation only. The same time I think German brand Vogelzang can not produce a 100% useless stuff. I’ll call them directly this week and ask several questions.
Also I’ll set up that stove outside at my backyard , erect the pipe ( 10’) and test it with different verities of wood loading capacity, time of burning and etc. And report all the results here to share my experience with you guys – my new friendly community of wood fire lovers. OK ?
Wise decision. You might be able to return the stove for credit on another purchase. Call them and ask.
When living in a city, it's much more important to control sources of fires. They can spread rapidly. There have been many fires in the US where most of the city has burned down due to an initial single fire. So now, many precautions are taken to try to ensure that the stove installation is safe. That protects you and your neighbors. This is common in Europe as well. But you're correct, fires are often still caused by carelessness.
I'm going to the Ukraine and my son will be in Russia soon. If we see any country stoves, we'll take pictures. I'm willing to bet that although they look like the Vogelzang, they are built like tanks and much more durable. As to safety, we have poor families here that try to set up a stove to stay warm, sometimes in a dangerous way. Part of what Hearth.com does is education to prevent these risky installations. Another part is to donate time to correct the problem. If you go into the hills of the Appalachia where homes are far apart and there is no code regulation, you can still find some very poor installations. That doesn't justify them as being safe. Some of them are time-bombs waiting for a fire to happen. Some are safer than they look because they have respected clearances to combustibles. Others are just lucky.
When living in a city, it's much more important to control sources of fires. They can spread rapidly. There have been many fires in the US where most of the city has burned down due to an initial single fire. So now, many precautions are taken to try to ensure that the stove installation is safe. That protects you and your neighbors. This is common in Europe as well. But you're correct, fires are often still caused by carelessness.
I'm going to the Ukraine and my son will be in Russia soon. If we see any country stoves, we'll take pictures. I'm willing to bet that although they look like the Vogelzang, they are built like tanks and much more durable. As to safety, we have poor families here that try to set up a stove to stay warm, sometimes in a dangerous way. Part of what Hearth.com does is education to prevent these risky installations. Another part is to donate time to correct the problem. If you go into the hills of the Appalachia where homes are far apart and there is no code regulation, you can still find some very poor installations. That doesn't justify them as being safe. Some of them are time-bombs waiting for a fire to happen. Some are safer than they look because they have respected clearances to combustibles. Others are just lucky.
Couple of items. Vogelzang is not a German brand. The company is and always was in Michigan, USA. The little box stoves are made in China.
And I guarantee you that wall coverings, floor coverings and furniture burn just as hot and just as often in Russia as they do in the US.
Also, since there isn't an active site toolsharbor.com you may be talking about Harbor Freight. If so Harbor will take pretty much anything back.
And I guarantee you that wall coverings, floor coverings and furniture burn just as hot and just as often in Russia as they do in the US.
Also, since there isn't an active site toolsharbor.com you may be talking about Harbor Freight. If so Harbor will take pretty much anything back.
- Jul 27, 2007
- 11
Thank you again BeGreen. Being to Russia and specifically in Ukraine( my native country) I strongly recommend you to see Bullerjan Stove. In fact, it was designed in Canada but (I have no idea why) local people belive that brand came to their country from Dutch manufacturer. I have close relations to the owner of the plant that produce that stoves under foreign patent. Unfortunately, his plant capacity is no more than 150 stoves per month that is not enough even for the local market. I was lucky to bring one with me in April this year. The idea was to become their exclusive trade representative in the US. It was pretty funny to look at custom officer's faces at JFK Airport while me passing the border :coolmad: It still in my garage.
I would appreciate for your opinion regarding that stove usage in USA. The major winning point in favor of Bullerjan usage is one time load for every 8 hours. You cannot add something till the burning process goes to end. A second favorite thing is that stove "eats" everything: paper, wood, cartone, palette, corn, garbage, plastic, furniture, yellow pages.....
That stove looks strange but it is functional and very effective. My parents used to use it for 6 years ( solid stone house) located 10" to the wall and standing on 4 standard size construction bricks. . The vent pipe is solid welded pipe 5" goes horizontal to through the wall outside and after that goes up to 7 meters ( appr. 21 feet). That stove works perfect. Would glad for your professional opinion.
I would appreciate for your opinion regarding that stove usage in USA. The major winning point in favor of Bullerjan usage is one time load for every 8 hours. You cannot add something till the burning process goes to end. A second favorite thing is that stove "eats" everything: paper, wood, cartone, palette, corn, garbage, plastic, furniture, yellow pages.....
That stove looks strange but it is functional and very effective. My parents used to use it for 6 years ( solid stone house) located 10" to the wall and standing on 4 standard size construction bricks. . The vent pipe is solid welded pipe 5" goes horizontal to through the wall outside and after that goes up to 7 meters ( appr. 21 feet). That stove works perfect. Would glad for your professional opinion.
Is this the stove? http://www.bullerjan-uk.co.uk/design.html
I can bet you raised some interesting looks trying to negotiate that through customs. It would make a heck of a shop stove.
It looks a bit like a barrel stove met an Allison. Might be appreciated by ex-aviation buffs with an affinity for wild exhaust manifolds.
A while back we had someone looking for a big stove to heat his shop. This looks like it would do the job well.
I can bet you raised some interesting looks trying to negotiate that through customs. It would make a heck of a shop stove.
It looks a bit like a barrel stove met an Allison. Might be appreciated by ex-aviation buffs with an affinity for wild exhaust manifolds.
A while back we had someone looking for a big stove to heat his shop. This looks like it would do the job well.
- Jul 27, 2007
- 11
Last year I was trying to locate USA dealer for that stove - unsuccessfull. Can you tell me WHY ? You can see a few variety of home installation in UK and all of them are pretty close to the back wall, no ugly square wall thimble, thick glass as fire proof pad on a floor. Tell me something. Are we (USA) trying to be oversecured than people from UK ?
Czech
Minister of Fire
Eric Johnson
Mod Emeritus
Canadian Lumberjacks!
Awesome.
The answer to the question about differences in consumer safety between here and Europe basically boils down (in my opinion) to the fact that we have too many lawyers. And I'm a liberal.
I was shocked a few years back, while taking a sauna in Sweden, that the sauna stove was just sitting there in the middle of the sauna with no guarding, sharp stainless steel corners, etc. (on a slippery tile floor, no less). I asked one of my companions if somebody wasn't concerned that somebody would get hurt and maybe sue. "Everybody should be careful," is how they described the situation to me.
Of course, this is the same country where it's illegal to drive with any alcohol in your blood stream, even the stuff left over from the night before.
Awesome.
The answer to the question about differences in consumer safety between here and Europe basically boils down (in my opinion) to the fact that we have too many lawyers. And I'm a liberal.
I was shocked a few years back, while taking a sauna in Sweden, that the sauna stove was just sitting there in the middle of the sauna with no guarding, sharp stainless steel corners, etc. (on a slippery tile floor, no less). I asked one of my companions if somebody wasn't concerned that somebody would get hurt and maybe sue. "Everybody should be careful," is how they described the situation to me.
Of course, this is the same country where it's illegal to drive with any alcohol in your blood stream, even the stuff left over from the night before.
- Jul 27, 2007
- 11
GotzTheHotz said:
Are you the owner or just inspider by the pictures ? If th eowner, tell us more about your experience.
webbie
Seasoned Moderator
This looks like a copy of a Free Flow stove, first made in Canada and New England in the 70's.
See:
https://www.hearth.com/gallery/pics/antique/source/free-flow.html
Worked very well, but seems expensive to produce - bending and welding all those tubes.
See:
https://www.hearth.com/gallery/pics/antique/source/free-flow.html
Worked very well, but seems expensive to produce - bending and welding all those tubes.
- Jul 27, 2007
- 11
AMAZING 
It looks like people stealing ideas all the time ! That image what you sent to me is almost the same what I stored in my garage bringing from Ukraine a couple months ago. Yes it works pretty good and there is no smell inside - an addition point to use it in house. Just wonder why such good stove is not presented on American market.
It looks like people stealing ideas all the time ! That image what you sent to me is almost the same what I stored in my garage bringing from Ukraine a couple months ago. Yes it works pretty good and there is no smell inside - an addition point to use it in house. Just wonder why such good stove is not presented on American market.
Go to the "Beschreibung" link from the site that BroBart linked us to earlier. Looks like Craig and Brooklyner are talking about the same thing.
Tadaaa! It's the FREE FLOW.
Tadaaa! It's the FREE FLOW.
karl said:
Fly around the room? ;-)
Seriously, I was thinking the same thing. Even better would be if those pipes actually passed thru the firebox. Holy crap. Not sure what that would do for the "proper" burn temps of epa stoves though.
drizler
Minister of Fire
webbie
Seasoned Moderator
I think the stove probably failed in the market because of the high cost of assembly. It was never very popular. In the current market, it would have to be much different, with the proper EPA (smokeless) operation, etc. - although the furnace version would probably be OK.
If these were going to be marketed, it would be wise to do some lab tests to determine how high the Heat Transfer Efficiency was, because that would be the primary selling point of the unit.
So what is the price of such a unit in Ukraine, translated to American dollars?
Do a lot of people in that part of the world burn firewood?
If these were going to be marketed, it would be wise to do some lab tests to determine how high the Heat Transfer Efficiency was, because that would be the primary selling point of the unit.
So what is the price of such a unit in Ukraine, translated to American dollars?
Do a lot of people in that part of the world burn firewood?
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
Cool looking stove, but would have problems in the US from a legal standpoint since it would need to get UL tested, and probably EPA approved - According to the folks up at Vermont Castings when Elk and I were up there, that represents a cost of over $20,000 per test cycle, pass or fail... You need to sell a lot of stoves to recoup that sort of cost, but if you don't get the listings in most places you can't install. In this case it may be dumb gov't regulation if the stove is built well, but it's the same regulation that trys to keep unlisted Vogelzangs from being installed as well...
Gooserider
Gooserider
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