What are we doing wrong?

[enigmablaze]

Sounds like you are on to something. The stove will not burn like a fireplace. It's a very different burning process. Have you tried burning the ecobrick laying down flat? Will two fit in, lying down, with a gap between them?

Do you have any friends that burn wood regularly that would trade or give you a box of known, well seasoned firewood? You may need to resplit it or recut it to fit the Morso, but that would help with the learning curve.

Two would probably fit but as the weight would be over 6.5lbs I am SURE we would have an overfire. We do lay them down on their side, sorry I'm being vague about that! We just put it in on its side cause that's pretty much the only way they go in that little box .

Ummm, I can't think of anyone we know who burns a stove. We have one friend with some fireplaces who has given us a bit of drier wood but we haven't tried it exclusively.

 

[enigmablaze]

Sounds like you are on to something. The stove will not burn like a fireplace. It's a very different burning process. Have you tried burning the ecobrick laying down flat? Will two fit in, lying down, with a gap between them?

Do you have any friends that burn wood regularly that would trade or give you a box of known, well seasoned firewood? You may need to resplit it or recut it to fit the Morso, but that would help with the learning curve.

So...I think my hubby is afraid if we lose a visible flame then we will be smoldering and creating creosote etc...is this wrong or right? Because it's sounding to me like we need to get a good fire going and then cut the air down more than we have been (seriously we usually keep the air wide open or close to keep the fire) but if we lose the flames are we smoldering the ecobrick?

 

[begreen]

He is partially right. You don't want a smoldering fire but it depends on the stage of the burn. You don't want the fire to smolder, but it shouldn't be burning like a fireplace with wide open air except at startup. Wide open air burning is going to deter secondary burn. By closing down the air past the 1/2 way point a vacuum develops in the firebox. This vacuum pulls air through the secondary air manifold and that in turn helps ignite the unburnt gases near the top of the fire. If the air is wide open this vacuum doesn't develop very well. At later stages of the burn cycle (coaling) there is little if any flame.

Has he tried burning a brick or two lying down instead of vertical? Or taking a chop saw and cutting a few in half, they burning a few halves at a time?

Try this - after the brick or brick pieces are burning well, close the air down halfway and observe. The flames may slow down, but as long as they don't go completely out, just let it burn. What normally happens is the fire and flames will gradually recover, but now with much more fire burning above the fuel, in front of the ports in the secondary manifold. If the flames are not lazy after turning down the air, turn it down another 50% to 1/4 open. Observer what happens and don't panic if the stove top goes up to 750F peak temp.

 

[Squirrel]

No flames while there is still unburnt fuel is bad.

The max load is 2Kg not 2lbs.

I could never get a decent coal bed with manufactured logs.

In the picture above the primary air is fully closed but I normally run it just 1/4 of a turn open in case of a drop in the breeze or a sudden temp change outside.

 

[enigmablaze]

He is partially right. You don't want a smoldering fire but it depends on the stage of the burn. You don't want the fire to smolder, but it shouldn't be burning like a fireplace with wide open air except at startup. Wide open air burning is going to deter secondary burn. By closing down the air past the 1/2 way point a vacuum develops in the firebox. This vacuum pulls air through the secondary air manifold and that in turn helps ignite the unburnt gases near the top of the fire. If the air is wide open this vacuum doesn't develop very well. At later stages of the burn cycle (coaling) there is little if any flame.

Has he tried burning a brick or two lying down instead of vertical? Or taking a chop saw and cutting a few in half, they burning a few halves at a time?

Try this - after the brick or brick pieces are burning well, close the air down halfway and observe. The flames may slow down, but as long as they don't go completely out, just let it burn. What normally happens is the fire and flames will gradually recover, but now with much more fire burning above the fuel, in front of the ports in the secondary manifold. If the flames are not lazy after turning down the air, turn it down another 50% to 1/4 open. Observer what happens and don't panic if the stove top goes up to 750F peak temp.

Ok I have a fire in there now, it probably took me almost an hour to get the ecobrick burning, my throat got sore from the smoke from having to keep opening the door just to keep a flame (air intake wide open) and I went outside and it smelled like a smoky campfire and there was lots of visible nasty smoke coming from my chimney pipe. I could barely keep it at 400* and my newly mostly cleaned glass sooted up again. I put two small pieces of wood (who knows how dry they were) to get the brick going and finally it went up to 600* and the smoke from the chimney pipe cleared up some, at 650* I turned the air off to see if I would get a secondary, I think I might be. This has been SUPER frustrating. It's like pulling teeth to get the brick to light and then once it FINALLY does it burns so hot it's hard to control it seems. I think cutting them down is the next logical answer. They are too hard to light from a cold stove as small as ours I think without TONS of smoke.

ETA, I didn't want it getting much over 650 with all that wood in it in case of overfire since this is my first fire entirely by myself. When we have gotten to 750 before simply breaking up the ecobrick seemed to cool it all very quickly though.

 

[enigmablaze]

No flames while there is still unburnt fuel is bad.

The max load is 2Kg not 2lbs.

I could never get a decent coal bed with manufactured logs.

In the picture above the primary air is fully closed but I normally run it just 1/4 of a turn open in case of a drop in the breeze or a sudden temp change outside.

I feel like we always have unburnt fuel, it seems to me the fire goes out and still there is lots that should have burned off. Then it just falls to ash later I think, we had tons of ash and these bricks aren't supposed to create hardly any I had read.

I just pulled this from the Morso manual on that stove model? "If you can weigh your wood, aim for around 2 lbs".

I'm beginning to think wood is a walk in the park compared to these things. Maybe that's the problem, too much brick and not enough wood to get coals.

 

[SuperJ]

Has he tried burning a brick or two lying down instead of vertical? Or taking a chop saw and cutting a few in half, they burning a few halves at a time?

Cutting them would increase the surface area, probably take off a lot faster.
The firebox isn't over stuffed to the point of intruding into the secondary air space is it?
I wonder if your thermometer is off by a bit.
Perhaps getting bag of grocery/hardware store firewood would be a good test. I wonder if those big bricks aren't compatible size wise with the stove, (even though the technically fit in the firebox)?

 

[enigmablaze]

Ok in a little more than the time it took me to type that my fire went out . Temps had fallen to around 600 so I opened the door and a little bit of paper got the flames going right back again, this time I have it one half-turn from fully closed, we'll see how this does.

I'm trying to keep a sense of humor about it at least, we have little cast iron cocottes with chocolate chip cakes baking in them on the stove so if it's all a failure at least hopefully we shall have cake .

 

[SuperJ]

There's not too many women around here willing to troubleshoot as far as you have so far, I'm impressed.

 

[enigmablaze]

Cutting them would increase the surface area, probably take off a lot faster.
The firebox isn't over stuffed to the point of intruding into the secondary air space is it?
I wonder if your thermometer is off by a bit.
Perhaps getting bag of grocery/hardware store firewood would be a good test. I wonder if those big bricks aren't compatible size wise with the stove, (even though the technically fit in the firebox)?

I am totally wondering about this too, the box is so small almost any amount of wood or brick gets so "high" it's basically in the "secondary air space"...I'm not sure what could be done about this? I'd never heard of this as an issue, but while the bricks are dense they aren't really that "tall", maybe 3-4" so not that different than wood.

 

[enigmablaze]

There's not too many women around here willing to troubleshoot as far as you have so far, I'm impressed.

Haha I actually really appreciate that, I like to learn things and I don't know anyone who does this so this forum has been a huge blessing.

 

[moresnow]

Choc. chip cakes! Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. What part of Illinois are you in?

 

[enigmablaze]

Fire still going and holding around 600* but outside is still smoky smelling with visible smoke from the chimney pipe so I opened the air another half-turn but I feel like I can still see smoke in the box itself.

 

[Rickb]

Basically right in the center of the state!

Im not the perfect person but if your going to be in or near the St.Louis area anytime soon I would be happy to show you my set up and how I light and sustain fires. My stove is a Cat stove but I do use man made bricks to offset the wood I have. An hour or 2 and you might at least have a better idea of what I am doing and what might help you. Also you might want to try going to lowes or home depot and they have scraps usually really cheap. Grab some pine 2x4, 2x6 scraps and use that to get your fire going. I go by the new construction around here and grab small pieces they are going to through away and fill up a couple back packs and that is my kindling for the winter.

 

[Squirrel]

The 2lbs in the manual is refering to one split.
On the next page it states "The maximum recommended weight of wood fuel per load is 2kg/5.5lbs(approx 3 split logs)"

 

[SuperJ]

Some more detailed pictures of the loaded firebox might give a clue:

• when it's loaded before you light
  
• after it's burned for while

 

[ddddddden]

Two would probably fit but as the weight would be over 6.5lbs I am SURE we would have an overfire. . .

Overfire happens because the fuel burns too fast, not necessarily because there is too much fuel. Although, if you do have a max load, and you get an overfire situation, it can be worse than an overfire with less fuel.

Regarding flames/no flames. Your goal is blue secondary flames floating in the top of the firebox, as seen burning in the other Morso posted. That's what burns the smoke and prevents creosote. Having primary flames on the logs is fine, but this doesn't mean that plenty of smoke is not going up your chimney and forming creosote.

It seems like most of your descriptions are of cold starts. Secondary burn is easier to achieve when you reload on a nice bed of hot coals. With a 2-lb load, by the time you get the stove up to temp from a cold start, there may not be much fuel left to support secondary burn.