What is a reasonable price for a new Blaze King, King classic ?

[VCBurner]

No, I don't think it will out heat the 30NC even running it wide open, which kind of defeats the purpose of the cat stove. However, the cat should make shoulder season more manageable.

Do you mean to say that the BK will not throw off more BTU's at peak burn or for the duration of the burn cycle? Is the average of BTU output on the 30NC more than the aveage for the BK for the entire burn cycle? It would seem to me there would be less peaks and valleys with the BK correct. Does this mean less heating capacity?

 

[begreen]

I guess the question is what one defines "out heat" as. The heating capacity should be equal or better with the BK say over a day, but the question was whether it would out heat the Englander. The BK may burn more evenly over a longer period of time, but I'd expect the 30NC to be able to achieve higher peak heat output.

This is just speculation, I haven't pitted one against the other. Only Hiram has a setup for that. But on paper, it looks like the heat output of the BKK is 30-40K btu/hr while the 30NC was lab tested up to 75K btu.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

No, I don't think it will out heat the 30NC even running it wide open, which kind of DEFEATS THE PURPOSE of the cat stove. However, the cat should make shoulder season more manageable.

Thank you!

I'm confused......?
What are you guys saying?

 

[HotCoals]

No, I don't think it will out heat the 30NC even running it wide open, which kind of defeats the purpose of the cat stove. However, the cat should make shoulder season more manageable.

Do you mean to say that the BK will not throw off more BTU's at peak burn or for the duration of the burn cycle? Is the average of BTU output on the 30NC more than the aveage for the BK for the entire burn cycle? It would seem to me there would be less peaks and valleys with the BK correct. Does this mean less heating capacity?

All I'm saying is I find no need to run my BK like a blast furnace,
Any cat stove should give you a much more even burn through the cycle...less of a peak temp.
In my world if I'm ripping a hot fire to me that means more heat is going up the chimney.
With my old non-cat BK I went through at least 33% more wood then with this cat one.
I feel most of that wood savings is from not sending a bunch of heat up the chimney all the time.

 

[begreen]

Two separate conversations going on here. My response was to the OP's situation and not to HotCoals. I don't think Smokey is going to see a massive increase in heat output going from his current 30NC to a BKK.

 

[North of 60]

No, I don't think it will out heat the 30NC even running it wide open, which kind of DEFEATS THE PURPOSE of the cat stove. However, the cat should make shoulder season more manageable.

Thank you!

I'm confused......?
What are you guys saying?

Its related to this thread where I got all my info for Smokeys application. Have a read.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/72226/
There would be a disappointment thread just like beetlekills threads if he was to proceed in my opinion.
Thats a hell of a house to heat with a stove on low or medium.
Again my 2 cents.
Cheers

 

[begreen]

Oh... OH! I hadn't followed that thread. That house looks like it could use a few stoves and none in the basement. For central heating get a wood furnace.

 

[SmokeyCity]

...<snip>..Smokey, the only way I get away with burning less than dry wood is to burn it hot for at least the first third of the burn cycle, and that is with a straight up double wall into class A chimney. If you expect to get long burns with less than dry wood, you are going to have an unsafe mess in your chimney. What's your primary goal? More heat than the 30 or a bigger firebox and more burn control?

Why does everyone think I wanna burn wet wood? I hate wet wood and have even seasoned my big rounds for more than 3 years - just to be sure its extra dry. I even contemplated building my own kiln just to get the wood even drier.

I am interested in the BKK because it burns so clean I don't have to worry about clogging my chimney,
has long burn times and has a thermostat that gives you hands off, no babysitting performance.

The one thing I misread into the BKK was high output BTU's.

Im glad a few people also pointed out that I can't run this BKK full tilt all the time (as I love to do with my 30NC) because it is designed with a different philosophy of use - long moderate burns - not short super hot bursts like I do with my 30 ( and seem to get away w/o destroying the stove).

All things considered - is it worth 4 or 5 x the 30NC? That is what I am now having serious doubts about because that super high output feature is a big part of my equation and looking at the actual numbers I see that the philosophy of use with the 30NC and the BKK is analogous to the hare vs. the tortoise.

If I burn i hot like the I do with the 30 I will not be using it's design optimally and will not get my $ out of it in the long run.

D*mn I hate facts and logic when Im all hot to trot for a new toy!

But thats what the forum is for - voices of sanity.

 

[HotCoals]

...<snip>..Smokey, the only way I get away with burning less than dry wood is to burn it hot for at least the first third of the burn cycle, and that is with a straight up double wall into class A chimney. If you expect to get long burns with less than dry wood, you are going to have an unsafe mess in your chimney. What's your primary goal? More heat than the 30 or a bigger firebox and more burn control?

Why does everyone think I wanna burn wet wood? I hate wet wood and have even seasoned my big rounds for more than 3 years - just to be sure its extra dry. I even contemplated building my own kiln just to get the wood even drier.

I am interested in the BKK because it burns so clean I don't have to worry about clogging my chimney,
has long burn times and has a thermostat that gives you hands off, no babysitting performance.

The one thing I misread into the BKK was high output BTU's.

Im glad a few people also pointed out that I can't run this BKK full tilt all the time (as I love to do with my 30NC) because it is designed with a different philosophy of use - long moderate burns - not short super hot bursts like I do with my 30 ( and seem to get away w/o destroying the stove).

All things considered - is it worth 4 or 5 x the 30NC? That is what I am now having serious doubts about because that super high output feature is a big part of my equation and looking at the actual numbers I see that the philosophy of use with the 30NC and the BKK is analogous to the hare vs. the tortoise.

If I burn i hot like the I do with the 30 I will not be using it's design optimally and will not get my $ out of it in the long run.

D*mn I hate facts and logic when Im all hot to trot for a new toy!

But thats what the forum is for - voices of sanity.

Why do you want to burn so hot so much for when you really don't need to with a cat stove?
Do you just have a fire now and then?

 

[HotCoals]

Maybe this link will help...you could hit 90,000btu's.
https://www.blazeking.com/EN/BTU.html

 

[SmokeyCity]

I have 3 story 40'x40' uninsulated triple brick and plaster Victorian with no insulation anywhere.

When I leave for a few days and come back the house is FREEZING and I need a stove that I can "overfire" all day to warm up the masonry in the basement and drift some heat upstairs. Once thats done I can run it "normal".

The idea of a 40 hr burn idling beneath my pipe chase putting out just enough heat to keep the pipes from freezing while Im away for the weekend is a very attractive feature for a wood stove.

But I am skeptical of buying a stove that I can't "overfire" whenever I want without fear of ruining it.
Ive been running this 30NC full tilt for 2 years now and it has not so much as flinched.

I now hesitate to do it with a stove that costs over $2000 and is specifically designed for a different type of use.

Why do you want to burn so hot so much for when you really don't need to with a cat stove?
Do you just have a fire now and then?

 

[SmokeyCity]

Do you plan on putting this stove in the basement or running it upstairs while the 30 runs in the basement?

basement

That would be where the 9-12 cord of wood is?

Well, I do have a about a cord of red oak in my basement now casue Im not gonna bother carrying it back out - but its in another room in the unused part of my basement which is 40x40 overall - so its not up against the stove or anywhere near it.

All the rest of my wood will be stored outside from now on- on a big cement slab. I'll only have about 5 -7 cords out there this year.

Im weary of having wood in the house with all the problems it causes.

 

[VCBurner]

Maybe this link will help...you could hit 90,000btu's.
https://www.blazeking.com/EN/BTU.html

See, I knew there was something wrong with that 40,000 BTU rating for the BKK. I bet they short sell themselves all the time by trying not to misguide people. They say the stove's peak BTU output actually exceeds 90,000! That's more like the numbers other huge firebox stoves report. I was willing to bet the BKK would outheat the 30NC if for nothing else just the bigger firebox. Bigger firebox= more surface for the fire to burn= hotter fire. I'm curious what Hiram would say about this though. He is the only one who can really say which one takes the cake! Which one is the better overall heater? I think with the HD prices at the end of the season last year and this year, we can say the Englander has got to be one of the best values on the market. No question about it.

 

[weatherguy]

Do you plan on putting this stove in the basement or running it upstairs while the 30 runs in the basement?

 

[SmokeyCity]

Do you plan on putting this stove in the basement or running it upstairs while the 30 runs in the basement?

basement

 

[North of 60]

Do you plan on putting this stove in the basement or running it upstairs while the 30 runs in the basement?

basement

That would be where the 9-12 cord of wood is?

 

[begreen]

I have 3 story 40'x40' uninsulated triple brick and plaster Victorian with no insulation anywhere.

When I leave for a few days and come back the house is FREEZING and I need a stove that I can "overfire" all day to warm up the masonry in the basement and drift some heat upstairs. Once thats done I can run it "normal".

The idea of a 40 hr burn idling beneath my pipe chase putting out just enough heat to keep the pipes from freezing while Im away for the weekend is a very attractive feature for a wood stove.

But I am skeptical of buying a stove that I can't "overfire" whenever I want without fear of ruining it.
Ive been running this 30NC full tilt for 2 years now and it has not so much as flinched.

I now hesitate to do it with a stove that costs over $2000 and is specifically designed for a different type of use.

Why do you want to burn so hot so much for when you really don't need to with a cat stove?
Do you just have a fire now and then?

This place is crying out for an energy retrofit or at least a central wood furnace or boiler system.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Triple Tap Wow! :grrr:

After reading the link well I'm....... :bug: Ummmm yeah.

Anyway 2K sounds like a hell of a good price East of the Mississippi. :cheese:
_______________________________________________________________________

King vs. 30 Two very different animals

And Yeah the BK will throw out as much or more heat as the Englander..... Just a different kind of heat.

The BK is an even, softer, more controlled heat. Feels more like a forced air furnace. (if that makes any sense)

The Englander is a blast ya, less even, less controllable heat. But that sucker is pure power!

When it was below zero I fired up both just to see what would happen.

Needless to say I turned the BK all the way down and woke up with my mouth glued shut. :lol: won't do that again

BK seems to use about 1/3 to 1/2 less wood than the Englander.

There is no need to run the BK on high for very long.

With dry wood, I can easily see over firing either of the stoves if your not careful.
________________________________________________________________



As stated above you might be better off with a wood furnace for your house?

If it were me I would first put the money towards insulation......

 

[Hardrockmaple]

My neighbor has been running his BKK with, damper closed/on high, for the last 10 years. He gets about a 10 hour burn this way. The stove still looks great and the "cat" is the original. He goes through between 5-6 cords of hardwood per winter.

 

[HotCoals]

Triple Tap Wow! :grrr:

After reading the link well I'm....... :bug: Ummmm yeah.

Anyway 2K sounds like a hell of a good price East of the Mississippi. :cheese:
_______________________________________________________________________

King vs. 30 Two very different animals

And Yeah the BK will throw out as much or more heat as the Englander..... Just a different kind of heat.

The BK is an even, softer, more controlled heat. Feels more like a forced air furnace. (if that makes any sense)

The Englander is a blast ya, less even, less controllable heat. But that sucker is pure power!

When it was below zero I fired up both just to see what would happen.

Needless to say I turned the BK all the way down and woke up with my mouth glued shut. :lol: won't do that again

BK seems to use about 1/3 to 1/2 less wood than the Englander.

There is no need to run the BK on high for very long.

With dry wood, I can easily see over firing either of the stoves if your not careful.
________________________________________________________________



As stated above you might be better off with a wood furnace for your house?

If it were me I would first put the money towards insulation......

I agree..but man he has a big house with no insulation.
So I also agree on a wood furnace..heck they really don't cost all that and would make huge diff..use a lot of wood though I bet to heat that monster house!

 

[SolarAndWood]

_______________________________________________________________________

King vs. 30 Two very different animals

And Yeah the BK will throw out as much or more heat as the Englander..... Just a different kind of heat.

The BK is an even, softer, more controlled heat. Feels more like a forced air furnace. (if that makes any sense)

The Englander is a blast ya, less even, less controllable heat. But that sucker is pure power!

When it was below zero I fired up both just to see what would happen.

Needless to say I turned the BK all the way down and woke up with my mouth glued shut. :lol: won't do that again

BK seems to use about 1/3 to 1/2 less wood than the Englander.

There is no need to run the BK on high for very long.

Hiram, just out of curiosity, how would you compare overall output over a 24 hour period? I find that running wide open, which for my setup is 3.25/blowers on high, I can stuff upwards of 200 lbs/day through in a continuous fashion if needed. This is two loads stuffed to the gills of locust or similar. Can you get that much wood through the 30 in a day? If so, how many loads and how much management?

One of the biggest selling points of the BK to me is the relative ease of lighting in September and burning continuously until May. For me this comes down to firebox size and burn control. If that was my big ole house, I think I would leave the 30 in the basement and find a way to put the BK in the middle of the living space. While I agree that we should all do whatever we can to tighten up our houses, that is a lot easier to do over time if you are heating with free wood instead of paying for fossil fuels.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

____________

King vs. 30 Two very different animals

And Yeah the BK will throw out as much or more heat as the Englander..... Just a different kind of heat.

The BK is an even, softer, more controlled heat. Feels more like a forced air furnace. (if that makes any sense)

The Englander is a blast ya, less even, less controllable heat. But that sucker is pure power!

When it was below zero I fired up both just to see what would happen.

Needless to say I turned the BK all the way down and woke up with my mouth glued shut. :lol: won't do that again

BK seems to use about 1/3 to 1/2 less wood than the Englander.

There is no need to run the BK on high for very long.

Hiram, just out of curiosity, how would you compare overall output over a 24 hour period? I find that running wide open, which for my setup is 3.25/blowers on high, I can stuff upwards of 200 lbs/day through in a continuous fashion if needed. This is two loads stuffed to the gills of locust or similar. Can you get that much wood through the 30 in a day? If so, how many loads and how much management?

One of the biggest selling points of the BK to me is the relative ease of lighting in September and burning continuously until May. For me this comes down to firebox size and burn control. If that was my big ole house, I think I would leave the 30 in the basement and find a way to put the BK in the middle of the living space. While I agree that we should all do whatever we can to tighten up our houses, that is a lot easier to do over time if you are heating with free wood instead of paying for fossil fuels.

S&W,

$1000 stove vs. $2750 stove.....

I don't really know as far as "overall output" because under normal circumstance's I never run or have to run the BK very hard.

On the T-stat,I run the BK from less then "1" to about "2" normally. When it got below zero °F I kicked it up to "2.25 to 2.5".

I'm going to say that the 30 could go through the same amount of wood and more but I can tell you the BK is in all honesty much more efficient in how it burns the wood. I would really have to run some tests and weigh the splits. The 30 would roast me out if I burn it very hard. That's where the BK is great. However you can do the same thing with the BK, turn it up for very long and you'll want to open up windows.

The 30 (in my case)your going to have to do much more management. loading it 3 times a day, messing with the damper, raking coals, messing with the damper, and getting low to the ground to reload.

The BK is load it 1 time, close bypass, set T-stat and call it a day.

They are really very very different.

For the price you absolutely cannot beat the 30....No question. But this can be a false economy when it comes to your firewood consumption.

The BK is much more user friendly, way way less work, and more efficient.

I don't know how you can run your stove wide open? Mine would over-fire within 30 minutes. (wood is almost 3 years seasoned)

Totally agree I would leave the 30 in the basement and find a way to put the BK in the middle of the living space. However like I stated before and I'm no expert by a long shot but without insulation and the home sq ft the furnace might be the way to go?


If someone were to ask me if I could only have one stove, and had to decide between the two......I would without hesitation say the Blaze King.

Once you get your sheet rock up you will be in great shape.

 

[VCBurner]

Hello! ;-P 3x40x40? That's 4800 sq ft of brick walls with no insulation? It's a surprise you didn't freeze yet. Sounds like you need to invest the $2000 in some spray foam for those walls. Keep the stove you have and get some insulation, it'll benefit you in the long run. Also come up with a way to put a stove in your main floor. I got great results from moving mine. You'll be much happier!

Do you have central heat Smokey? On a related subject, the wife and I have been looking at a 5 bedroom colonial for a while. It is over 3100 sq ft on 3 stories and is localted, well, here's the add from the realtor:

Rambling 18th century colonial located right on Paxtons quintessential New England common! total of 13 rooms with lots of important original features and detail including wide pine floors, fireplaces including beehive oven, built ins. Colonial kitchen with exposed beam ceiling, walk in pantry..early american keeping room/dining room with bake oven, Recent cathedral heated sunroom addition, Brand New Septic summer 2010, garage, shed, perennial gardens, first floor just refurbished.

It sounds like our dream house, except for the heating cost for that beast! It is in the center of our small town, and actually has insullation and updated windows and doors. All signs point to a good deal, but you never know what you're getting into with these old houses. It was built in 1770. Has four fireplaces, leaving me with plenty of options for wood stove locations. We have not looked at it yet, but drive by all the time in our way out of town. The boys school would be within a short 5 minute walk! We both love the charm of old houses and I'm a carpenter, so I can appreciate even more the work that was originally put into building these big houses.

Good luck Smokey,
Chris

 

[begreen]

http://www.woodstoves.net/psg/caddy.htm

 

[nate379]

I know every install is different, but if I did with that with my stove I would have the whole thing glowing red in no time. I leave it on high for 15-20 mins after I load it up. I forgot about it one day for closer to 30 mins and the cat gauge was on it's way to going all the way around! Was at about the 5:00 position.

My neighbor has been running his BKK with, damper closed/on high, for the last 10 years. He gets about a 10 hour burn this way. The stove still looks great and the "cat" is the original. He goes through between 5-6 cords of hardwood per winter.